Big Yards Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Anyone know where the 2,700 empty seats were at the game yesterday? I'd say there were maybe 800-1000 at a push in the west and a couple of hundred in each other stand as the rest of the ground was pretty full. That would leave about 1000 seats unaccounted for?? Edited April 20, 2014 by Big Yards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McGarvey' wonky legs Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Usual comps, hospitality etc dont count. Then take the 200 in the no mans land in the west bank in the separation bit. Nothing to do with creative accounting. Family stand would have lots of comps from easter camps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalky1 Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 The empty 3 sections in the West stand that was put aside for Hibs fans, lucky if there was 200 in the West stand, was also small sections in the away stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappy coco Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 There must have been at least 6500 in the ground yesterday, without doubt the biggest home support of the season.. Good weather and a crucial game, great advert for summer football.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moustache of Hyslop Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Usual comps, hospitality etc dont count. Then take the 200 in the no mans land in the west bank in the separation bit. Nothing to do with creative accounting. Family stand would have lots of comps from easter camps Comps and hospitality DO count. Fans have a tendency to overestimate gates. Single empty seats, 2 empty seats, etc, very difficult to spot when scanning round a ground. If you look closely you'll spot them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurich_allan Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 The question you have to ask yourself is - were there nearly THREE THOUSAND empty seats. The answer as far as I'm concerned is no. And it's actually quite ridiculous to suggest there were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McGarvey' wonky legs Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Comps and hospitality DO count. Fans have a tendency to overestimate gates. Single empty seats, 2 empty seats, etc, very difficult to spot when scanning round a ground. If you look closely you'll spot them though. I have asked the question of Brian Caldwell before and he confirmed that comps and hospitality does not count towards the official attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luther G. Presley Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 The question you have to ask yourself is - were there nearly THREE THOUSAND empty seats. The answer as far as I'm concerned is no. And it's actually quite ridiculous to suggest there were.I agree with you, there is no way there were 3000 empty seats yesterday. It does make you wonder why we continually announce the crowd less than it actually is, it brings down our average attendance over the season and makes us look as though teams like Thistle and St Johnstone are better supported than us. I reckon our attendances are more on a par with Killie and Motherwell to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) There's about 30 in that picture. That whole section was practically bare and there was a big taped off section. the usual ends of the stands were empty. Add in the singles and doubles that somebody else mentioned and there you have it. It's hard to see an empty white or black seat in a crowd of people dressed in black and white. Paul McGowan shouting at these wee girls. Out of order! 1397940089146.jpg Edited April 20, 2014 by slapsalmon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorizaar Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I have asked the question of Brian Caldwell before and he confirmed that comps and hospitality does not count towards the official attendance.Been said at agm before that they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorizaar Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) The question you have to ask yourself is - were there nearly THREE THOUSAND empty seats. The answer as far as I'm concerned is no. And it's actually quite ridiculous to suggest there were. I love this amazing talent fans seems to have of being able to count empty seats in a football stadium by simply taking a brief glance around. Remarkable stuff. Edited April 20, 2014 by Thorizaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Yards Posted April 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) There's about 30 in that picture. That whole section was practically bare and there was a big taped off section. the usual ends of the stands were empty. Add in the singles and doubles that somebody else mentioned and there you have it. It's hard to see an empty white or black seat in a crowd of people dressed in black and white.Ok so assuming half the west stand was empty (which it wasn't) that's about 1250, where were the other 1500 empty seats?? There aren't 1000 comps and hospitality tickets!! Edited April 21, 2014 by Big Yards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Sanchez Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'll admit to having been pretty anal about this in the past. When the action of the park was less alluring, I used to challenge myself to look around Love Street from the Main Stand and guess the crowd, and I honed it so that I was rarely more than a kick on the arse away from the announced figure. I've found that, unless you're having a right good look at it, you are prone to vastly over estimating how many people are in a stand. Take the Soapdodgers, who think they filled the Caley Stand every time they came to Love Street. In fact they filled it once, at the Diddy Cup semi final, but never came within 700 of filling it at any other time, according to the easily backed up official figures that were released in the Saints Club magazine back in the day. There's a big difference between a stand that looks or feels full, and one that actually is genuinely full. On Saturday, Hibs were allocated 2400 seats and left 900 of them empty + the segregation no man's land. Already you're well on the way to accounting for the announced attendance before you've even looked at the home end. In addition to this, if roughly two out of three every seats in the home end were occupied it would work out to a total crowd of just about exactly 5200. Try the maths yourself. If two out every three seats in the home end were occupied it would look pretty full. As it did on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurich_allan Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I love this amazing talent fans seems to have of being able to count empty seats in a football stadium by simply taking a brief glance around. Remarkable stuff. You don't have to count an exact figure to be able to see that there weren't nearly 3000 seats free. 150 empty in the North stand at a push as it was nearly full. I sit at the divide in W5 (2nd last seat before the divide) so have a perfect view of how much of W5 and W6 is empty (almost all of it from the mid point of W5) so another 700 empty there. The other end around W1 had some empty seats, but W2 - first half of W5 is 95% full. So around 1,000 seats empty in the West Stand. Looking to the Main Stand. The seats in M1 and M8 are usually pretty empty, but on Saturday had a lot more supporters than usual. Again with the centre sections almost full, and no vacant sections, there were no more than 300 - 400 free. To make the sums add up therefore, there would have to be almost NOBODY in the family stand, we're talking 1000 seats free, which there weren't. The family stand was circa two thirds full, meaning around 400 free. It's around 500 - 800 unaccounted for. Not a small number. Again, you don't have to be a mathematical genius to know that there were NOT nearly 3,000 free seats in the ground. You just have to have basic observational skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moustache of Hyslop Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I have asked the question of Brian Caldwell before and he confirmed that comps and hospitality does not count towards the official attendance. They do count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moustache of Hyslop Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Again, you don't have to be a mathematical genius to know that there were NOT nearly 3,000 free seats in the ground. You just have to have basic observational skills. As I mentioned above, if you use your "basic" observational skills then you will spot many single empty seats or a couple of empty seats all over the place. These all add up. What are you suggesting anyway? Why would the club put out a false attendance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 As I mentioned above, if you use your "basic" observational skills then you will spot many single empty seats or a couple of empty seats all over the place. These all add up. What are you suggesting anyway? Why would the club put out a false attendance? To answer your last question, I can think of a few reasons why some clubs might but St.Mirren are too honest to cheat, of course. Possible Reasons:- 1 Tax Evasion 2 Don't give a shit if figures are accurate 3 It's nobody else's business 4 The guy that does it canny count 5 Released only on a need-to-know basis 6 The fans don't sit still long enough to get counted 7 Rangers and Celtic get away with saying what the f**k suits them 8 The calculators are too footery to use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Yards Posted April 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) It's just frustrating when we actually get a really good crowd then they announce that it was only a few hundred more than the last game! We're trying to build up an atmosphere, momentum and excitement to go to games amongst fans and one way of doing that is to show people who didnt go that the fans are flooding down to the ground. If the pick up the paper and see that we only had 3,700 home fans when really we had over 4,000 then it just makes it look like an average day at greenhill. Watching on tv it looked like near full house from the west stand! Edited April 21, 2014 by Big Yards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurich_allan Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 As I mentioned above, if you use your "basic" observational skills then you will spot many single empty seats or a couple of empty seats all over the place. These all add up. What are you suggesting anyway? Why would the club put out a false attendance? Again - nobody is saying that there weren't empty areas, nobody is saying it was a full house. However with the North stand nigh on full, you're looking for nearly 3,000 seats, or certainly 2,500 empty in the remaining stands. And there just weren't as many as that empty! Not even close! To say there were is like trying to argue that black is white and white is black. I'm not suggesting anything with why the announced figures were so far wrong (and not for the first time), as I don't know if it's intentional, careless, or faulty systems. All I DO know is that the figures themselves are not even close to reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurich_allan Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) To expand on the above, what the announced figures are saying is that an amount of seats equal to or more than the ENTIRE west stand were available around the ground. Patently absurd to even suggest that. Edited April 21, 2014 by zurich_allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Sanchez Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Whatever way you want to make it sound preposterous, it is indisputable that all that is required to account for the attendance is for one out of every three seats in the Saints sections to be empty. This is simple arithmetic, and is not far fetched. In the Alba footage (e.g. at 75:30) the white pattern in the seats is showing through in nearly every section. Those are empty seats, and they are the obvious ones, unlike the black empty seats. Remember, more simple arithmetic reveals that if the white seats alone were empty it would also more than account for the official attendance. Geologists use charts to estimate the relative abundance of minerals in a rock sample, and it is very similar exercise to this. Examples of such charts are on the following link and, tellingly, the accompanying notes state, 'observe that a 50% abundance looks like a lot more than 50%' http://csmres.jmu.edu/geollab/fichter/IgnRx/abundanc.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Saint Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 3000 empty seats is not a hell of a lot less than half the stadium capacity!! Add another 1000 to that and it's halfway. Was the stadium really only a little over half full on Saturday? I've got my doubts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Sanchez Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 3000 empty seats is not a hell of a lot less than half the stadium capacity!! Add another 1000 to that and it's halfway. Was the stadium really only a little over half full on Saturday? I've got my doubts. See above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorizaar Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 To expand on the above, what the announced figures are saying is that an amount of seats equal to or more than the ENTIRE west stand were available around the ground. Patently absurd to even suggest that.Can you tell me how many empty seats there were around me in W3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) I was sitting in the main stand just in front of the hospitality(can't remember the section) beside me there was one guy a couple of seats along and he had at least 3 empty beside him at the other side. in front of me there were 4 empty and the same behind. There's 13. How many of the front row seats were occupied? And someone's just pointed out hibs didn't sell 900. Add in what 250 or there abouts for the segregation and you already over half way into the 3000 without looking for the random empty seats. Edited April 21, 2014 by slapsalmon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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