Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Such an important subject deserves it's own thread as the 'Better Together' keeps telling us what we can and what we cant do. Better together has been telling us that we can't join the EU well here is an article taken from Scotland On Sunday that proves the Westminster's Propaganda machine is in full swing telling lies just like it did back in the last vote for Scotland back in the 70's that has been proven due to secret documents published. European Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker is “sympathetic” to an independent Scotland joining the EU due to his experience as a politician from a small member state, it emerged last night. The revelation came after No campaign leaders claimed remarks by Juncker that the 28-member-EU needed “a break from enlargement” showed that Scotland would be kept out in the event of a Yes vote. However, Scotland on Sunday has learned that the hierarchy in Brussels would be unlikely to exclude an independent Scotland from the EU as it is already signed-up to “core EU requirements” for candidate member states on gender equality and workers’ rights. An independent Scotland’s potential membership would be treated as a “special and separate case” to nations wanting to join from regions such as the Balkans that have yet to satisfy all the rules, a senior EU source stated. The source directly contradicted claims from the No campaign, which seized on a speech by the EC president-elect last week to claim that he had banned an independent Scotland from joining the EU until 2019, after he told the European Parliament “no further enlargement will take place over the next five years.” Juncker’s EU spokeswoman had said the new EC president – a former prime minister of Luxembourg – was not referring to Scotland. However, a high-ranking EU official last night stated Junker “would not want Scotland to be kept out”. The source said: “He’d be sympathetic as someone who is from a smaller country as he’ll understand the obstacles that can be put in the way of less powerful member states.” Candidate countries for EU accession currently include the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey, who have yet to demonstrate they fulfil key membership requirements. However, Scotland would be “exempt” from the process as it is already a signatory to core requirements for nation states in areas as such employment rights and equality legislation because of its 40-year membership of the EU as part of the UK. European Union chiefs are also thought to be angered by the prospect of the UK voting on an EU exit in the referendum planned by David Cameron and view Scotland’s desire to be a member favourably, an EU source confirmed. A Scottish Government spokeswoman last night re-stated Alex Salmond’s claim an independent Scotland would automatically inherit EU membership because of its status as part of the UK and would be fully admitted within 18 months. She said: “Scotland is already part of the EU and as such already meets all the requirements for membership. “The specific terms of continued membership as an independent country will be negotiated in the 18-month transition timetable we have indicated.” However, the EU leadership is understood to view the SNP timetable of being an independent nation in the EU within 18 months as “unrealistic”, but believes Scotland could be a full member early within the first parliament after a Yes vote. The position was backed by a leading authority on European politics, who said that Scotland would have to be treated as a special case. Prof Michael Keating, an EU expert and chair in politics at Aberdeen university, said: “It would be much more complex for the EU and other member states if Scotland had to leave and be disentangled from something it has been in for 40 years. They wouldn’t want to disrupt the single market in this way.” A UK Government spokesman said: “The truth is it is unlikely Mr Juncker or anyone else round the negotiating table would give Scotland special treatment at the expense of their own countries.” A Better Together spokesman said: “President Juncker has made it perfectly clear that he agrees with his predecessor José Manuel Barroso and European Council president Herman Van Rompuy that if we vote to leave the UK we need to reapply to the join the EU.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Such an important subject deserves it's own thread as the 'Better Together' keeps telling us what we can and what we cant do. Better together has been telling us that we can't join the EU well here is an article taken from Scotland On Sunday that proves the Westminster's Propaganda machine is in full swing telling lies just like it did back in the last vote for Scotland back in the 70's that has been proven due to secret documents published. Oaksie , Stu D , get your teeth into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Such an important subject deserves it's own thread as the 'Better Together' keeps telling us what we can and what we cant do. Better together has been telling us that we can't join the EU well here is an article taken from Scotland On Sunday that proves the Westminster's Propaganda machine is in full swing telling lies just like it did back in the last vote for Scotland back in the 70's that has been proven due to secret documents published. Can someone tell me, honestly, if there is a way I can stop even seeing a thread and any mention of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Can someone tell me, honestly, if there is a way I can stop even seeing a thread and any mention of it? Rick - you choose to click the mouse or type the keyboard. Its all in your own hands (or finger) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Such an important subject deserves it's own thread as the 'Better Together' keeps telling us what we can and what we cant do. Better together has been telling us that we can't join the EU well here is an article taken from Scotland On Sunday that proves the Westminster's Propaganda machine is in full swing telling lies just like it did back in the last vote for Scotland back in the 70's that has been proven due to secret documents published. Not sure if it needed an individual thread Buddie, but there's no doubt that the whole of the UK state machine is working overtime to churn out the propaganda. It goes from the "state" broadcaster right through to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office briefing foreign governments and instructing embassies to brief against the YES vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 This should be put to bed quickly since the newspaper article refuses to name it's source. It's no worse and no better than idle gossip especially since the article makes it clear it's a third party guessing what Junckers attitude might be. The legal complexity of this has been covered in the other thread by Zurich in a more detailed fashion than this silly article Gordon Wilson made a good point about EU Membership though when he pointed out that if the rUK did choose to leave the EU - which is highly unlikely - the worst possible position for Scotland to take would be to be in the EU because England is Scotland s biggest export market Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Not sure if it needed an individual thread Buddie, but there's no doubt that the whole of the UK state machine is working overtime to churn out the propaganda. It goes from the "state" broadcaster right through to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office briefing foreign governments and instructing embassies to brief against the YES vote. Many posters blank the referendum thread due to SD turning it into a bore. This thread lets posters read what is a very important matter. No doubt SD will hijack this thread also turning into a hard slog to read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Pretty sure we can make up our own mind and choose what to read, not to read, believe and not believe. Do we really need this addition thread? I don't think so bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Many posters blank the referendum thread due to SD turning it into a bore. This thread lets posters read what is a very important matter. No doubt SD will hijack this thread also turning into a hard slog to read Hijack the thread? That's the type of attitude that pisses me off about a lot of yes voters. I will probably vote yes but get pissed off with the attitude of many yes voters towards anyone who dare suggest that they might be voting no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 this is great news, scotland can maybe get in the EEU, according to that great man A.Source, does it make any difference if we are in or out, i can only go by southern ireland for comparison and they were stuffed because of the EEU were they not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Pretty sure we can make up our own mind and choose what to read, not to read, believe and not believe. Do we really need this addition thread? I don't think so bud. dont see any problem in posting a new thread david, why should IOBS have to post in the other thread if he doesnt want to, Anyway IOBS why dont you just put that git on ignore, i and many others do, and if everyone did then we wouldnt see his drivel Edited July 20, 2014 by buddiecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Hijack the thread? That's the type of attitude that pisses me off about a lot of yes voters. I will probably vote yes but get pissed off with the attitude of many yes voters towards anyone who dare suggest that they might be voting no. Hijack the thread? That's the type of attitude that pisses me off about a lot of yes voters. I will probably vote yes but get pissed off with the attitude of many yes voters towards anyone who dare suggest that they might be voting no. David of course anyone can debate yes or no have no problem with that. The Better Together have made such a big thing about us not getting into the EU. As far as SD goes he has made many lies that have been proven with posts that go on forever. Have no problem if a MOD wants merge this thread into the referendum thread apologies if I upset anyone with the thread that was not the intension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 No need to apologise IOBS, at least not IMO You thought it worthy of a thread, some agreed. I and others didnt - its hardly worth bothering about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Why won't the European Parliament release a statement categorically stating that an independent Scotland will automatically get into the EU? I will tell you why, because they don't know, no one knows. It's uncertain, just like most of the issues in an independent Scotland. The pound, the EU, pensions... I could go on. No wonder the Scottish nation can't wait to vote no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Why won't the European Parliament release a statement categorically stating that an independent Scotland will automatically get into the EU? I will tell you why, because they don't know, no one knows. It's uncertain, just like most of the issues in an independent Scotland. The pound, the EU, pensions... I could go on. No wonder the Scottish nation can't wait to vote no. Because it's an extraordinarily convoluted bureaucracy is the answer. Of course the member state could ask, i.e. the UK. The fact that it refuses to ask, does make you conclude that it already knows the answer and doesn't like it or EU doesn't want to consider it until it happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 David of course anyone can debate yes or no have no problem with that. The Better Together have made such a big thing about us not getting into the EU. As far as SD goes he has made many lies that have been proven with posts that go on forever. Have no problem if a MOD wants merge this thread into the referendum thread apologies if I upset anyone with the thread that was not the intension I'm not (and wasn't) going to merge it mate, just my opinion that it wasn't needed. You may feel strongly on this one issue that you think it merits a thead. I don't have a problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Can someone tell me, honestly, if there is a way I can stop even seeing a thread and any mention of it? poke yir eyes oot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Because it's an extraordinarily convoluted bureaucracy is the answer. Of course the member state could ask, i.e. the UK. The fact that it refuses to ask, does make you conclude that it already knows the answer and doesn't like it or EU doesn't want to consider it until it happens Convoluted bureaucracy it may be, that's not a reason why they won't issue a statement. The fact that they would even have to consider it shows the uncertainty. No wonder the vast majority of business owners doesn't want independence, leaving the EU, even for a short period would be disastrous for businesses here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Ah but top cat, we both know that we wouldn't leave for a short time. You stay in while sorting out membership. Even if uk votes to leave in 2017, it will take a while to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Ah but top cat, we both know that we wouldn't leave for a short time. You stay in while sorting out membership. Even if uk votes to leave in 2017, it will take a while to happen. Source please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Ah but top cat, we both know that we wouldn't leave for a short time. You stay in while sorting out membership. Even if uk votes to leave in 2017, it will take a while to happen. Hmm, this is the kind of misinformation that the Yes Campaign loves to spread. IBOS claims I lie - I certainly don't. I might get things wrong on occasion but there is no deliberate attempt to deceive - unlike with these kind of posts. Just tell the truth Tony - no-one knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 No wonder the vast majority of business owners doesn't want independence, leaving the EU, even for a short period would be disastrous for businesses here. Independent source please ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Why won't the European Parliament release a statement categorically stating that an independent Scotland will automatically get into the EU? I will tell you why, because they don't know, no one knows. It's uncertain, just like most of the issues in an independent Scotland. The pound, the EU, pensions... I could go on. Because they are politicians. They don't want to be seen to be influencing the decision. In short, it's our fight and they have no intention of getting involved. They also can't make pronouncements without talking to other member states and they won't do that until they have to. It's not an unreasonable stance. As for uncertainty over pensions and currency? We'll have pensions and we'll have the pound. Again you have to wonder exactly what level of certainty you actually want. Are you seriously worried we won't have a currency? Are you seriously worried we'll have no pensions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Hijack the thread? That's the type of attitude that pisses me off about a lot of yes voters. In fairness I think what IOB is getting at is the 250 pages of deliberate trolling by Dickson on the other thread. If you genuinely believe Stuart's 250 pages of references to brown shirts and Nazis is acceptable then with respect we're going to have to disagree on that. Voting No is one thing. The Nazi references we can do without. I have to say though that the obsessive responding to his posts contributed greatly to that other thread becoming a cesspit. Edited July 20, 2014 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Not that you or I were guilty of that, though, oaky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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