Stuart Dickson Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) No surprise at all to read that SFA Performance Director, Mark Wotte, quit his post yesterday. He served just 3 years of a 10 year contract and, somewhat ridiculously hes told pressmen that the job he claimed initially would take 6 years to bear any fruit, has been completed early. He leaves a legacy of a performance school set up that sees kids join as pro youth 11 year olds and where, by the time they are 16 only one in 20 still has a contract of any sort and that one credits loads of people with his development but not one from the school he attended. Hopefully the next appointment will realise that the large budget under the Performance Directors control would be far better spent on improving community pitches and on continued progress of coaching development in the clubs that take kids off the streets -as happens in Belguim. Hopefully theyll also scrap the current pro youth system and get back to something far more similar to the old s form system. Edited October 22, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Bring back Reserve football and play the matches on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbar_bud Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I would be amazed if they refill his post, hes achieved absolutly zero, and all at what i would imagine would have been a 6 figure salary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I would be amazed if they refill his post, hes achieved absolutly zero, and all at what i would imagine would have been a 6 figure salary I think they will although the post might be titled differently and might well be of much lower profile. It makes sense to take the job of creating and managing a national strategy for youth development away from the remit of National Team Coach if only because, as good a coach as the likes of Gordon Strachan may well be he's got extremely limited experience of developing young talent. What does worry me is that the newspapers this morning are reporting that the reason for Wotte leaving his post was that there was growing criticism from the SPFL Chairmen who wanted MORE of the available money put into SFA Youth Initiative Football through the professional clubs. We've had the pro youth system in place in Scotland now for much longer I've been involved in youth football and it's quite clear that it's not delivering. To throw more money into a system that is clearly not fit for purpose would be an absolute folly. What we need is to raise the standards at introductory level for kids into football. There should be more emphasis put on the SFA Quality Mark scheme, with far more rewards and funding made available to those clubs who hit qualification status and then maintain it. And where clubs are shown to be well run there should be a combined effort between the SFA, local authorities and funding bodies like the National Lottery, the SFP and Sports Scotland to ensure that there is a strategy put in place to give those community clubs opportunity and a viable business plan to build, develop and maintain their own playing facilities - perhaps in partnership with professional football clubs, or in partnership with schools. Improving and maintaining standards whilst providing access to facilities for every child who wants to play football has to be the way forward. After all it's between the ages of 4 and 11 where kids will make most progress in developing their skills in the game, and attracting more kids into football at an early age will mean more customers for the professional game in future years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Dicko was beelin when he was in situ, now he's beelin that he's moved on.... Painters in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Shit thought the thread was about the SFA reducing pricing for next two games. Read the first two sentences then gave up , you just know 99.9% could be shortened to a few lines while the rest is Zzzzzzz ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Dicko was beelin when he was in situ, now he's beelin that he's moved on.... Painters in? Hardly, I'm delighted to see the back of the Dutch waster. I'm sorry if I haven't made that clear enough for you when I slated the legacy of his "academy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) He leaves a legacy of a performance school set up that sees kids join as pro youth 11 year olds and where, by the time they are 16 only one in 20 still has a contract of any sort and that one credits loads of people with his development but not one from the school he attended. Eh? The guy has only been in post for 3 years. I know you're shit at maths but the first batch of 11 year old kids who started in his first year will only be 14 so actually it's not possible to know what the dropout rate will be when they hit 16. It's not like you to f**k up on basic arithmetic. Edited October 22, 2014 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Stewart Regan @StewartMRegan 14s14 seconds ago Elite player development, driven off the back of strong talent ID is critical for Scottish success. We will therefore recruit a new Perf Dir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Stewart Regan @StewartMRegan 14s14 seconds ago Elite player development, driven off the back of strong talent ID is critical for Scottish success. We will therefore recruit a new Perf Dir I think Dicko should get the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I think Dicko should get the job.He'll be too busy advising Osborne on how to get rid of deficit and debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hardly, I'm delighted to see the back of the Dutch waster. I'm sorry if I haven't made that clear enough for you when I slated the legacy of his "academy"Bit racist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 He'll be too busy advising Osborne on how to get rid of deficit and debt. And exactly how do you expect Dicky to work on deficit and debt when he's already swamped solving the NHS problems single handedly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Did Wotte not come to SFA from Southampton where he was credited with their latest successful bunch of homegrown talent? Edited October 22, 2014 by TPAFKATS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 And exactly how do you expect Dicky to work on deficit and debt when he's already swamped solving the NHS problems single handedly? Bit wankerist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Dicko was beelin when he was in situ, now he's beelin that he's moved on.... Painters in? I think he got his dates wrong and the painters , are actually only due in today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Stewart Regan @StewartMRegan 14s14 seconds ago Elite player development, driven off the back of strong talent ID is critical for Scottish success. We will therefore recruit a new Perf Dir Doesn't matter a jot unless our 2 biggest professional clubs start bringing through more of their own youth players. This is the biggest problem as they hoover up the best talent and dump at least 95% before they are 18 Too much of the best talent lost to the professional game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Doesn't matter a jot unless our 2 biggest professional clubs start bringing through more of their own youth players. This is the biggest problem as they hoover up the best talent and dump at least 95% before they are 18 Too much of the best talent lost to the professional game It's certainly true that too much of the best talent is lost to the game but that is precisely the fault of the system we have in place. Take Clyde for example. I quite like elements of what Clyde do in the game but when it's come to youth development someone there needs their head looked at. I've been dealing with people there for a couple of years now and from what I know they are on their third head of youth development in that period of time. In their 98's age group what they did this season and last season was they procured a squad of 30 players - taking lads who were amongst the best in their own local community clubs and filling them with false hope. They then limited those lads amount of match time as they rotated the players to try to find out which 16 year olds were going to be good enough to play Under 19s football next season. Four months in they've decided to have yet another massive cull of those players releasing them again and they've started to recruit yet again. Now I know some of the people at Clyde and we've discussed the way they do their business before and they've agreed with me that they are doing anything but developing youth talent. Instead they are looking to find players who are as close to the finished article as they can be so that Clyde might be able to move them into their first team squad and they are doing so by having a high level of turnover trying to find those players. Clyde aren't the only side doing this by any manner of means it's just they are the most recent example I've come across. What should be recognised within the SFA is that professional football clubs are not the best place to put youth development money. Far better value for money and far better results can be achieved if instead that money is ploughed into more coach education, better facilities, and in putting in place the business structure that helps keep the money coming in to assist in maintaining their facilities. Pissing away more money on football academies is an utter nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Eh? The guy has only been in post for 3 years. I know you're shit at maths but the first batch of 11 year old kids who started in his first year will only be 14 so actually it's not possible to know what the dropout rate will be when they hit 16. It's not like you to f**k up on basic arithmetic. Contrary to what Mark Wotte would have you believe he didn't invent football academies in high schools. They existed before he got the job. The one at Braidhurst High School in Motherwell was on the go when my son was 10 years old. Former Saint, Ian Ross, was lead coach on the project. The first group of pupils recruited left that school two years ago, and the second group are now in 6th year. Of the first two intakes only Jai Quitongo - Jose eldest son - has managed to get a full time professional contract in the game. He signed for Aberdeen last week having left Hamilton Accies. Wotte's first action in the new job was to pledge to put even more money into these football academies, set up first by the Scottish Government and the SFA under the National Sports Comprehensive programme. Wotte rebranded those academies and in August 2012 they became "Scottish FA Elite Schools of Football" and expanded the programme. When Wotte left his post this week he claimed that he had been a success and that his job was complete. A ridiculous claim to make when the "Elite" schools have produced so little in return for the investment put into them by the Scottish Government and the Scottish FA. Wotte was a disaster in his job from day one and a gross waste of money by the SFA. I'm glad he's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Go to any park in Scotland, and watch well intentioned (guys who are giving up their own time to run a team) but limited 'coaches' shout at young boys, talk them through games (to the extent that some boys look at the coach when they get the ball), encourage a 'get stuck in' attitude as being the most important part of the game, and still think that winning is the be all and end all even when kids are 5 to 10 years old. We talk a lot about learning from other countries, but never do, and I don't think we ever will. Guys like Wotte come along, with some new ideas. Some of them may be good, some may be bad, but it seems to me that, despite the 'we need to change' mantra, the old guard always seem to close ranks and rubbish any suggestion of change that doesn't suit them. I believe that some pundits and ex pros rubbished Wotte's work in the media this week. My question to them would be, given the current standard of Scottish football, why would anyone listen to the current Scottish football establishment? We're not showing any signs of developing or moving forward in terms of the standard of player or how we play the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Contrary to what Mark Wotte would have you believe he didn't invent football academies in high schools. They existed before he got the job. The one at Braidhurst High School in Motherwell was on the go when my son was 10 years old. Former Saint, Ian Ross, was lead coach on the project. The first group of pupils recruited left that school two years ago, and the second group are now in 6th year. Of the first two intakes only Jai Quitongo - Jose eldest son - has managed to get a full time professional contract in the game. He signed for Aberdeen last week having left Hamilton Accies. Wotte's first action in the new job was to pledge to put even more money into these football academies, set up first by the Scottish Government and the SFA under the National Sports Comprehensive programme. Wotte rebranded those academies and in August 2012 they became "Scottish FA Elite Schools of Football" and expanded the programme. When Wotte left his post this week he claimed that he had been a success and that his job was complete. A ridiculous claim to make when the "Elite" schools have produced so little in return for the investment put into them by the Scottish Government and the Scottish FA. Wotte was a disaster in his job from day one and a gross waste of money by the SFA. I'm glad he's gone. I didn't read anything in your reply which dealt with my point about your shite arithmetic. Give me a shout if you decide to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Go to any park in Scotland, and watch well intentioned (guys who are giving up their own time to run a team) but limited 'coaches' shout at young boys, talk them through games (to the extent that some boys look at the coach when they get the ball), encourage a 'get stuck in' attitude as being the most important part of the game, and still think that winning is the be all and end all even when kids are 5 to 10 years old. We talk a lot about learning from other countries, but never do, and I don't think we ever will. Guys like Wotte come along, with some new ideas. Some of them may be good, some may be bad, but it seems to me that, despite the 'we need to change' mantra, the old guard always seem to close ranks and rubbish any suggestion of change that doesn't suit them. I believe that some pundits and ex pros rubbished Wotte's work in the media this week. My question to them would be, given the current standard of Scottish football, why would anyone listen to the current Scottish football establishment? We're not showing any signs of developing or moving forward in terms of the standard of player or how we play the game. That's a good set of points. Add in to the mix the horror show of pushy parents like Dickson above who are absolutely convinced that THEIR kid is the new Pele and criticise anything which doesn't recognise that and you have the problem in a nutshell. We see that on this forum as well. Every now and then when some kids who are obviously not good enough are culled from our under 19 squad you get their parents on here bad mouthing the coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Go to any park in Scotland, and watch well intentioned (guys who are giving up their own time to run a team) but limited 'coaches' shout at young boys, talk them through games (to the extent that some boys look at the coach when they get the ball), encourage a 'get stuck in' attitude as being the most important part of the game, and still think that winning is the be all and end all even when kids are 5 to 10 years old. We talk a lot about learning from other countries, but never do, and I don't think we ever will. Guys like Wotte come along, with some new ideas. Some of them may be good, some may be bad, but it seems to me that, despite the 'we need to change' mantra, the old guard always seem to close ranks and rubbish any suggestion of change that doesn't suit them. I believe that some pundits and ex pros rubbished Wotte's work in the media this week. My question to them would be, given the current standard of Scottish football, why would anyone listen to the current Scottish football establishment? We're not showing any signs of developing or moving forward in terms of the standard of player or how we play the game. Fair points - and I'm certainly not going to claim that the kind of coaches you talk about don't exist at Juvenile level but the problem doesn't go away at what we call pro youth level either. I've been at North Lanarkshire Development Squad matches against "Pro Youth" teams - even at Under 12's level - where the NLD squad won the match and within 24 hours the "pro youth" side was busy trying to recruit their players whilst dumping players out of their own squad. The issue of coach education isn't resolved at pro youth level either. For example at juvenile level when registering our team with the SYFA we need to produce certification to prove that we have a minimum of one coach with a 1.2 level qualification in the appropriate age group and one coach with a 1.1 level qualification. We also have to have one person involved in the running of the team who has a current Sports First Aid certificate. In reality, as one of the many Quality Mark clubs at out level, we've got two 1.2 coaches and a Level 2.0 coach running our team, plus a 1.3 level specialist goalkeeping coach and a qualified athletics coach who come down to at least two training sessions per month, plus we have three qualified first aiders. Compare that to one local "pro youth" side who have two coaches who have never achieved more than a 1.1 qualification, and who got a parent of one of their players to sign SFA documentation as a coach despite him not being involved in running the team because he has a 1.3 qualification. Wotte deserved and got a lot of criticism from both the "football establishment" and from those involved in youth development. I'd be suspicious of Club Chairmen who clearly want a bigger slice of the money that was being spent by Wotte in those football academies to be spent within their clubs - but i'd be happy to listen to the views of players - particularly players who came through during the early 80's when Scottish Football really did have a good track record of developing world class talent. Alan Preston has been very vocal in saying that he believes we need to scrap the pro youth set ups and to get back to the old S' Forms that served the game far better - I agree with him completely and absolutely. It's simply common sense. Instead of allowing professional clubs to build up and then dash so many kids hopes in the game through a system designed to create far more failures than there is successes we need to get back to a situation where we allow young kids to play and train with their mates at their local club. Raising coaching standards should be easy. Simply increase the minimum standard criteria and ensure that there are plenty of coaching courses around the country - that aren't likely to be cancelled at the last minute as often currently happens - to ensure coaches get the education they need. Edited October 24, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 That's a good set of points. Add in to the mix the horror show of pushy parents like Dickson above who are absolutely convinced that THEIR kid is the new Pele and criticise anything which doesn't recognise that and you have the problem in a nutshell. We see that on this forum as well. Every now and then when some kids who are obviously not good enough are culled from our under 19 squad you get their parents on here bad mouthing the coaching. Oh FFS Instead of making a fool of yourself on topics where you clearly have no clue, you should simply shut up. I'm certainly not a pushy parent as anyone who has been involved in the LFDA Leagues at 98's level will tell you and I certainly have no delusions about my own sons ability. Indeed last Sunday he was only a sub for our team against Mill United Colts. David Longwell would no doubt back me up on this too as when I recommended players from our team to St Mirren a few years back not one of the lads was my own son. At no stage have I claimed my son was like "Pele" and before you shout your mouth of further I would ask that if you are going to make false claims about me that you please provide evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Fair points - and I'm certainly not going to claim that the kind of coaches you talk about don't exist at Juvenile level but the problem doesn't go away at what we call pro youth level either. I've been at North Lanarkshire Development Squad matches against "Pro Youth" teams - even at Under 12's level - where the NLD squad won the match and within 24 hours the "pro youth" side was busy trying to recruit their players whilst dumping players out of their own squad. The issue of coach education isn't resolved at pro youth level either. For example at juvenile level when registering our team with the SYFA we need to produce certification to prove that we have a minimum of one coach with a 1.2 level qualification in the appropriate age group and one coach with a 1.1 level qualification. We also have to have one person involved in the running of the team who has a current Sports First Aid certificate. In reality, as one of the many Quality Mark clubs at out level, we've got two 1.2 coaches and a Level 2.0 coach running our team, plus a 1.3 level specialist goalkeeping coach and a qualified athletics coach who come down to at least two training sessions per month, plus we have three qualified first aiders. Compare that to one local "pro youth" side who have two coaches who have never achieved more than a 1.1 qualification, and who got a parent of one of their players to sign SFA documentation as a coach despite him not being involved in running the team because he has a 1.3 qualification. Wotte deserved and got a lot of criticism from both the "football establishment" and from those involved in youth development. I'd be suspicious of Club Chairmen who clearly want a bigger slice of the money that was being spent by Wotte in those football academies to be spent within their clubs - but i'd be happy to listen to the views of players - particularly players who came through during the early 80's when Scottish Football really did have a good track record of developing world class talent. Alan Preston has been very vocal in saying that he believes we need to scrap the pro youth set ups and to get back to the old S' Forms that served the game far better - I agree with him completely and absolutely. It's simply common sense. Instead of allowing professional clubs to build up and then dash so many kids hopes in the game through a system designed to create far more failures than there is successes we need to get back to a situation where we allow young kids to play and train with their mates at their local club. Raising coaching standards should be easy. Simply increase the minimum standard criteria and ensure that there are plenty of coaching courses around the country - that aren't likely to be cancelled at the last minute as often currently happens - to ensure coaches get the education they need. Agree totally Far too many players regarded as fillers in pro youth and not fair on the players Still too many idiots involved in the Boys Club though and that's a big problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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