Sonny Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) There is a thread on P&B where posters are asked to name their best players this season (Thommo is ours by the way). Contenders or outright winners gives the following: Ross County - Graeme Carey as outright winner Dundee - Paul McGinn, Gary Harkins, Paul McGowan are all either winners in some fans' eyes or get honourable mention by most. Hamilton Accies - Dougie Imrie is implied as being part of the pool. Notice a connection? These guys are doing great are their new clubs yet, we not only let them all go, we paid for some to leave! (I am aware McGinn left of his own accord but his reason was he did not see a chance of first team football). So why do we throw talent out the door to replace them with guys not fit enough to tie the laces of the above? Although not world beaters I would take all of the above back in a second considering what we replaced them with. I know there are no guarantees in football signings but all these guys were snapped up as soon as we let them go so someone else thought they were decent enough (and proved to be right!). But can Danny and Craig just not see talent ? Or do they not have a scoobie how to use it? Or shocking man management? Or is there another reason? Whatever the reason it is quite demoralising to see so many cast-offs doing so well in their new teams at our expense. Edited November 17, 2014 by Sonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 There is a thread on P&B where posters are asked to name their best players this season (Thommo is ours by the way). Contenders or outright winners gives the following: Ross County - Graeme Carey as outright winner Dundee - Paul McGinn, Gary Harkins, Paul McGowan are all either winners in some fans' eyes or get honourable mention by most. Hamilton Accies - Dougie Imrie is implied as being part of the pool. Notice a connection? These guys are doing great are their new clubs yet, we not only let them all go, we paid for some to leave! (I am aware McGinn left of his own accord but his reason was he did not see a chance of first team football). So why do we throw talent out the door to replace them with guys not fit enough to tie the laces of the above? Although not world beaters I would take all of the above back in a second considering what we replaced them with. I know there are no guarantees in football signings but all these guys were snapped up as soon as we let them go so someone else thought they were decent enough (and proved to be right!). But can Danny and Craig just not see talent ? Or do they not have a scoobie how to use it? Or shocking man management? Or is there another reason? Whatever the reason it is quite demoralising to see so many cast-offs doing so well in their new teams at our expense. I think you've hit the nail on the head. When Levein was the Scotland boss some blamed the quality of players at his disposal. Look at what Strachan has done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Sonny. Your comments are spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) There is a thread on P&B where posters are asked to name their best players this season (Thommo is ours by the way). Contenders or outright winners gives the following: Ross County - Graeme Carey as outright winner Dundee - Paul McGinn, Gary Harkins, Paul McGowan are all either winners in some fans' eyes or get honourable mention by most. Hamilton Accies - Dougie Imrie is implied as being part of the pool. Notice a connection? These guys are doing great are their new clubs yet, we not only let them all go, we paid for some to leave! (I am aware McGinn left of his own accord but his reason was he did not see a chance of first team football). So why do we throw talent out the door to replace them with guys not fit enough to tie the laces of the above? Although not world beaters I would take all of the above back in a second considering what we replaced them with. I know there are no guarantees in football signings but all these guys were snapped up as soon as we let them go so someone else thought they were decent enough (and proved to be right!). But can Danny and Craig just not see talent ? Or do they not have a scoobie how to use it? Or shocking man management? Or is there another reason? Whatever the reason it is quite demoralising to see so many cast-offs doing so well in their new teams at our expense. It says it all really when the person considered our best player hasn't even been fit enough to be on the bench for almost all of our season. Edited November 17, 2014 by stlucifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I wasn't too troubled to see any of the players you've mentioned leave, but that's because I thought/hoped we would bring in players of better quality, attitude etc. I didn't want Josh Magennis anywhere near the club after his loan spell last season. He's not a good player, but he at least had a bit of power, pace and physicality about him. We don't even have that just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergie's no1 fan Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 There is a thread on P&B where posters are asked to name their best players this season (Thommo is ours by the way). Contenders or outright winners gives the following: Ross County - Graeme Carey as outright winner Dundee - Paul McGinn, Gary Harkins, Paul McGowan are all either winners in some fans' eyes or get honourable mention by most. Hamilton Accies - Dougie Imrie is implied as being part of the pool. Notice a connection? These guys are doing great are their new clubs yet, we not only let them all go, we paid for some to leave! (I am aware McGinn left of his own accord but his reason was he did not see a chance of first team football). So why do we throw talent out the door to replace them with guys not fit enough to tie the laces of the above? Although not world beaters I would take all of the above back in a second considering what we replaced them with. I know there are no guarantees in football signings but all these guys were snapped up as soon as we let them go so someone else thought they were decent enough (and proved to be right!). But can Danny and Craig just not see talent ? Or do they not have a scoobie how to use it? Or shocking man management? Or is there another reason? Whatever the reason it is quite demoralising to see so many cast-offs doing so well in their new teams at our expense. Graham Carey was rotten for us in his second spell. Had a handful of incredible games at left back in the cup winning season but that was about it. I think the club were justified in releasing him at the time. He was in last chance saloon when he signed for County and it looks like it gave him a kick up the back side. Imrie and Harkins didn't perform for us. They are the kind of signings that can make the manager lose his job ( which happened ). Imrie gave 100% everytime he wore the stripes to be fair to him, unlike Harkins, but he didn't put in 1 single performance that matched the days he ripped us apart for Accies and even Morton. Harkins is suited to Dundee, they get the best out of him but even their fans have criticised him for being lazy at times this season. Our fans were always going to turn on them 2 . McGowan was a great player for us. Would have been nice to keep him on but i don't think his performances in his final season justified a new contract with a huge wage. His career was hanging by a thread and i dont think TC fancied taking a risk on him. Seems to be running the show for Dundee but if he has even 1 more minor off the field issue he is in deep bother. He certainly was Danny's boy though. If DL was still in charge this season I think he would have done everything in his power to make McGowan stay. I don't think DL knew how to accommodate Harkins and McGowan in the same team. McGowan was wasted playing deep and Harkins wasn't justifying Danny's faith in him. I think a couple of them would also have been poisonous in the dressing room and the management lost control over them. Many believe Harkins was signed to replace Gowser in the first place and it was to late to withdraw his contract when McGowan shocked us all by staying. I don't believe keeping these players would have prevented the state we are in just now. They seemed to be strolling through their careers and got a bit complacent, especially Carey. I was hoping for most of them all to go down South because its the StMirren way, they would come back and haunt us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ McG Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 There is a thread on P&B where posters are asked to name their best players this season (Thommo is ours by the way). Contenders or outright winners gives the following: Ross County - Graeme Carey as outright winner Dundee - Paul McGinn, Gary Harkins, Paul McGowan are all either winners in some fans' eyes or get honourable mention by most. Hamilton Accies - Dougie Imrie is implied as being part of the pool. Notice a connection? These guys are doing great are their new clubs yet, we not only let them all go, we paid for some to leave! (I am aware McGinn left of his own accord but his reason was he did not see a chance of first team football). So why do we throw talent out the door to replace them with guys not fit enough to tie the laces of the above? Although not world beaters I would take all of the above back in a second considering what we replaced them with. I know there are no guarantees in football signings but all these guys were snapped up as soon as we let them go so someone else thought they were decent enough (and proved to be right!). But can Danny and Craig just not see talent ? Or do they not have a scoobie how to use it? Or shocking man management? Or is there another reason? Whatever the reason it is quite demoralising to see so many cast-offs doing so well in their new teams at our expense. This is absolutely spot on. I've gone over it in my head a number of times. Every player you have mentioned there would walk into our starting 11. McGowan didn't want to leave and It's rumoured Carey was desperate to return to Paisley in the summer just there and that's why he held out so long before signing on again at county. How we could do with these players just now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Correct. Gowser wanted to stay and Carey was very keen to come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledfan Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 We never seem to get players match fit and play them in the correct position. To many years now something has been lacking in training and player purchasing that has left us imbalanced and lacking fitness which can't have helped performance of the above players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Graham Carey was rotten for us in his second spell. Had a handful of incredible games at left back in the cup winning season but that was about it. I think the club were justified in releasing him at the time. He was in last chance saloon when he signed for County and it looks like it gave him a kick up the back side. Imrie and Harkins didn't perform for us. They are the kind of signings that can make the manager lose his job ( which happened ). Imrie gave 100% everytime he wore the stripes to be fair to him, unlike Harkins, but he didn't put in 1 single performance that matched the days he ripped us apart for Accies and even Morton. Harkins is suited to Dundee, they get the best out of him but even their fans have criticised him for being lazy at times this season. Our fans were always going to turn on them 2 . McGowan was a great player for us. Would have been nice to keep him on but i don't think his performances in his final season justified a new contract with a huge wage. His career was hanging by a thread and i dont think TC fancied taking a risk on him. Seems to be running the show for Dundee but if he has even 1 more minor off the field issue he is in deep bother. He certainly was Danny's boy though. If DL was still in charge this season I think he would have done everything in his power to make McGowan stay. I don't think DL knew how to accommodate Harkins and McGowan in the same team. McGowan was wasted playing deep and Harkins wasn't justifying Danny's faith in him. I think a couple of them would also have been poisonous in the dressing room and the management lost control over them. Many believe Harkins was signed to replace Gowser in the first place and it was to late to withdraw his contract when McGowan shocked us all by staying. I don't believe keeping these players would have prevented the state we are in just now. They seemed to be strolling through their careers and got a bit complacent, especially Carey. I was hoping for most of them all to go down South because its the StMirren way, they would come back and haunt us. The Thing is they all are doing well for a different manager. That tells me that our manager must have a problem in getting the best out of them. All of the above players can't all be to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykey Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 lets be honest here, none of us thought of playing Carey in the centre of 3 attacking midfielders, nor did wee rat face, but that's where he's thrived this season and very few were bothered at the loss of Harkins or Imrie and even gowser had a poor last season however it's true all 4 have played well this season but the real problem isn't the loss of these 4 but that the replacements have been so disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 some people can be quite contrary, all of the guys mentioned had some sort of attitude issue that needed to be addressed by themselves. i certainly dont think Imrie was properly welcomed by some fans and he is the sort of guy that this would rankle with McGowan probably needed the wake-up call of being let go. It could be argued that keeping him on would have been a too-comfy place of refuge for him rather than the platform to grow up a wee bit and take it on a level that releasing him has provided Harkins, i believe is playing well purely to spite us and he will fade sharply sometime soon Paul McGinn-young player who worked his ticket out the door. it paid off for him so far but 9 times out of 10 this kind of move backfires on a kid. He engineered his own move and you can't blame a manager for letting a malcontent go. it may not be long before he shafts Dundee Carey was the only stonewall certainty to succeed and was the only true lapse of judgement out of all of those with McGowan the only each-way bet. much as I criticise Craig, he cant be blamed for his part in the rest, unless fitness is an issue (which i think it has been for some time at St Mirren). DL's only mistake with that lot was signing Harkins in the first place-they were such an obvious personality clash Different strokes for different folks. too many variables to call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted November 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Besides McGowan none of the above were considered an automatic first team pick when they were with us. They are now all automatic first team picks. In some cases they are considered the best player in their new teams all of whom are above us in the League besides Ross County! And I forgot about Josh. He is an automatic choice for Killie this season and has scored 3 (plus 2 in the League Cup) - the same as our top scorers (Drury and McLean) and if you include the LC then he has scored more than anyone we have. So why can other clubs make these six players into valuable acquisitions and we cannot? Its not as if the players we let go went to lower divisions and lesser clubs. They were all snapped up at the top level and have proven their worth. Not getting the best out of one player is fair enough but six out of six? Others saw their capability and we didn't. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I'll tell you why. Simply Tommy is well out his depth as a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think it says more about the quality of the league than the quality of the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilPar72 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Correct. Gowser wanted to stay and Carey was very keen to come back. Carey was keen to go anywhere, that wasn't Ross County. They offered him a new improved deal which he declined. Let his contract expire, before being forced to return to county on a lesser contract than his old one. No doubt he could have returned to us, but we weren't the only team unwilling to take him on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 So , can we put together an spfl team of ex saints ? (Current platers only ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Oops . Meant players ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Theres no doubt , that all the players mentioned are good footballers , but its the type of player that grafts when his team are two nil down that we want , and maybe with the exception of Gowser , none of them come into that category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a50lennyc Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 The Thing is they all are doing well for a different manager. That tells me that our manager must have a problem in getting the best out of them. All of the above players can't all be to blame. For a change, you are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) As with all players, they become far better when they leave. Lest we forget that we gave Carey a 2 year deal in the summer of 2012. In the subsequent 2 years, he never once established himself as a first pick. Neither did Harkins or Imrie and all of them had ample opportunity. That's why they were released/sacked. I agreed with every decision at the time. Edited November 17, 2014 by TopCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 lets be honest here, none of us thought of playing Carey in the centre of 3 attacking midfielders, nor did wee rat face, but that's where he's thrived this season and very few were bothered at the loss of Harkins or Imrie and even gowser had a poor last season however it's true all 4 have played well this season but the real problem isn't the loss of these 4 but that the replacements have been so disappointing. The thing is, perhaps the replacements are only disappointing playing under the direction of our manager. The season we signed Thommo, Teale, Carey, Hasslebaink, Tesselar to play alongside the likes of McGowan, Goodwin, the other Thompson, McLean etc. What happened to that type of quality and why did we under achieve with such a strong squad? It's time to stop changing players and time to change the management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 As with all players, they become far better when they leave. Lest we forget that we gave Carey a 2 year deal in the summer of 2012. In the subsequent 2 years, he never once established himself as a first pick. Neither did Harkins or Imrie and all of them had ample opportunity. That's why they were released/sacked. I agreed with every decision at the time. They were good before we signed them and good after we released them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Kendo. Spot on mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 They were good before we signed them and good after we released them. You think we should give/honour players contracts based on what they do with other sides, and not ours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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