Crispian Crunchie

Can I suggest that the next person that pastes in the full text of the Hamas charter is run out of town? Mainly because it's wasting acres of space. If Reynard wants an argument about the wacko self-justifications of one Palestinian sect instead of a discussion about a bloke unjustly getting his collar felt at a football match, I'd respectfully suggest that he goes and finds it elsewhere.

Think we probably need to focus on the precise legal justification for the action that was taken against DSS. At the very least it seems questionable, and particularly in the context of the apparent lack of action against significant numbers of Celtic/OF fans chanting rather more offensively tendentious political sentiments. The question of the quality of the stewards that other large clubs bring to Greenhill Road is definitely one that urgently needs raising in this context (it's otherwise a very good idea). The intention is to clamp down on racist or sectarian abuse at football grounds, which is laudable, and which I'd suggest nobody could reasonably argue with. However, there does seem to be some confusion amongst stewards and supervisors as to what does and does not constitute this sort of abuse. A Spotters' Guide might be the solution, but at the very least I think that a measure of improved training of all ground supervision staff wouldn't go amiss. Too many people are focusing on the red herring of why would DSS want to shout "Free Palestine" in the first place. People have been screaming all manner of odd things from terraces at Love Street and at Greenhill Road for 140 odd years. Yes, "Free Palestine" is political. But it's not exactly sectarian, nor racist, nor even particularly hateful. As Bluto points out, it's an assertion of a legitimate human rights aspiration, perhaps a little out of context at Greenhill Road, but then when were human rights aspirations ever limited by the specifics of geography? Given that Sunderland FC have just appointed a fascist sympathiser as their manager, and that their chairman has disgracefully tried to justify this gross offence to the sons and daughters of Sunderland that fought fascism in war to protect their way of life by asserting that politics should be kept out of sport, but the people of Sunderland are showing signs of having none of this nonsense, we need to remember that keeping politics and sport separate is not only impossible, it's not actually very desirable. I really don't think that there is any imminent danger of Scottish football being infected by Israeli/Palestine sectarianism in the way that Northern Irish sectarianism has blighted the game for generations. Though of course we need to be wary, arresting people for espousing a free Palestine at football matches is just un-necessary.

Interesting take on the whole saga here : I think that it may well be time for Wee Eck to get off his arse and do something useful.

I'm (not really) surprised that Liverpool Bud's helpful and relevant suggestion has been ignored in the rush to bash the politicians and suggest that a takeover by Bashr Al-Assad would be preferable to any council involvement. It really is worth looking at the highly successful relationship between Wirral Borough Council and Tranmere Rovers. As Liverpool Bud says, the borough council pumped essential funding into Rovers that kept them alive in return for a long-term sponsorship deal. To this day, 20 years on, "Wirral" is the only name that appears on Rovers' shirts, and not some commercial sponsor, a source of tremendous pride to my Rovers-mad friend, and thousands of other Rovers fans on the Wirral peninsula. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement whereby the borough council benefits from the sponsorship exposure, and the club benefits from a local authority genuinely investing in what's important to local people. There is no council involvement in the management of the club beyond the funding and sponsorship. So before you kick off on a predictable anti-council rant, why not have a look at what the district council is proposing, and see whether it may be worth looking at with the Tranmere model in mind? Seems to me it could be well worth looking at.

Fuck. That must be really annoying for you.

Probably time to close this thread now that it seems to have become a display case for NSS's wank-fodder.

When you "mark this forum as read", if the forum has any sub-forums - like General St Mirren Discussion - they don't get marked as read. Any chance of fixing this?

Think a bit more, PP. Not only could it have been any one of us, but in the fullness of time it will be every one of us. That's the real reason why we raise a glass when a fellow human being passes on. We honour the departed, but also, primarily (for the dead are beyond such considerations) drink gratefully to our continuing lives. Those who are gone are beyond all pain, but we can still weigh the joy of life against the pain, which includes that especially intense pain inflicted by departed friends and lovers. Here's to being human.

I never met Derek. But I've spoken to him many, many times through this internet forum, and especially through the Personal Message facility (often via messages I received un-prompted from him), and I felt that I did get to know him a bit through that - for he was always courteous, friendly, humorous, and thoroughly decent. A real mensch. From the foregoing posts from those who really did know the man in person, I can see that my impressions were absolutely spot on. What a terrible shock to all of his friends and family to lose him so precipitately. I'm truly sad that he has gone - but what a great Saints man he surely was. I'm very pleased that I did get to know him, if only slightly. Good that he lived, but crap that he's dead. It's a bit obvious to say so, but we need to concentrate on the former to help us to get on with the time we've got left. I'm raising a glass to Derek's memory now.

[We've discussed this BEFORE

My Missus was once asked out by Rankin Roger. She told him to fuck off.