"friends Of St Mirren"

[shull]

I've noticed that Bill Waters is part of the Group going under the banner of "Friends of St Mirren".

I don't know him or his colleagues that well but do know that Bill was on the St Mirren Board for many years as was his Father and Grandfather before him. I've heard from others they all made sterling contributions towards the stewardship of our Club.

However, it has to be remembered that Bill Waters was a member of the Saints Board in the 1991/92 Season along with - Alan Marshall

John Corson

Yuill Craig

Willie Todd

and latterly in that season Bob Earlie and Charlie Palmer.( i think these 2 were brought in to rescue the hopeless situation at the time)

That was the Season when those in charge of St Mirren Football Club tipped our beloved Saints over the edge and left us in the situation where we are today.

LOSING OUR BELOVED LOVE STREET for a MONSTROSITY OF A STADIUM AT GREENHILL ROAD.

That 91/92 Fortunes of money was sanctioned from The Board to be spent on the Playing Staff under the Management of David Hay and Gordon Smith.

This led to enormous wages and outrageous Signing on fees for the likes of wasters such as Chic Charnley, David Elliot, Mark Reid, Jim Beattie and Roy Aitken who was well past it.

We were never stable again till Tesco stepped in.

Now Mr. Waters is back and wants to be our FRIEND and this particular FRIEND wants £60 of our money in return for a BRICK.

Edited August 2, 2008 by shull

[The Real Zippy]

I've noticed that Bill Waters is part of the Group going under the banner of "Friends of St Mirren".

I don't know him or his colleagues that well but do know that Bill was on the St Mirren Board for many years as was his Father and Grandfather before him. I've heard from others they all made sterling contributions towards the stewardship of our Club.

However, it has to be remembered that Bill Waters was a member of the Saints Board in the 1991/92 Season along with - Alan Marshall

John Corson

Yuill Craig

Willie Todd

and latterly in that season Bob Earlie and Charlie Palmer.( i think these 2 were brought in to rescue the hopeless situation at the time)

That was the Season when those in charge of St Mirren Football Club tipped our beloved Saints over the edge and left us in the situation where we are today.

LOSING OUR BELOVED LOVE STREET for a MONSTROSITY OF A STADIUM AT GREENHILL ROAD.

That 91/92 Fortunes of money was sanctioned from The Board to be spent on the Playing Staff under the Management of David Hay and Gordon Smith.

This led to enormous wages and outrageous Signing on fees for the likes of wasters such as Chic Charnley, David Elliot, Mark Reid, Jim Beattie and Roy Aitken who was well past it.

We were never stable again till Tesco stepped in.

Now Mr. Waters is back and wants to be our FRIEND and this particular FRIEND wants £60 of our money in return for a BRICK.

Has Friends Of St Mirren (FOSMA) been re-packaged from the days when the likes of Jack Paterson, Brian Lawson, Peter Copland, John Henney and Drew Brown were involved

[shull]

Has Friends Of St Mirren (FOSMA) been re-packaged from the days when the likes of Jack Paterson, Brian Lawson, Peter Copland, John Henney and Drew Brown were involved

My memories of Jack Paterson are sitting near him at a few Away Matches in the Title winning season under Tom Hendrie and the Super Saints Fan Jack giving the Manager and the Team total pelters and abuse throughout most of the Matches.

Another "Friend of St Mirren "

Jack is a friend of Jack.....

Edited August 2, 2008 by shull

[Big Fras]

My memories of Jack Paterson are sitting near him at a few Away Matches in the Title winning season under Tom Hendrie and the Super Saints Fan Jack giving the Manager and the Team total pelters and abuse throughout most of the Matches.

Another "Friend of St Mirren "

Jack is a friend of Jack.....

I slated JP on this site about B&W Mag, but he had the bottle to get hold of my mobile through a mutual aquaintance, and phone me up to discuss my gripes. We agreed to disagree, but I appreciated his actions. There is no doubt that Jack is 100% B&W. As for him giving the team pelters, it hardly puts him in a minority. LS has always had more than its fair share of miserable b*stards. The only issue would be on JP "changing faces" when interviewing subjects for the mag...........but he doesn't: Gordian meets the interviewees.

Saying that, Shull's original post on this thread is one of the best/most sensible that he has ever posted. Must have been a busy day in Der Vectra.

[buddieup]

Is it just me that hadn't heard of "FOSMA" until the other day? When were they set up?

[Thorizaar]

FOSMA have been around since the 80s at least. As for the bricks, do we really need another thread? If you think it's too dear, don't buy one. I'm sure you'll survive just like everyone survived at Love Street for over a century without having their name on a brick.

[Joe]

I've noticed that Bill Waters is part of the Group going under the banner of "Friends of St Mirren".

I don't know him or his colleagues that well but do know that Bill was on the St Mirren Board for many years as was his Father and Grandfather before him. I've heard from others they all made sterling contributions towards the stewardship of our Club.

However, it has to be remembered that Bill Waters was a member of the Saints Board in the 1991/92 Season along with - Alan Marshall

John Corson

Yuill Craig

Willie Todd

and latterly in that season Bob Earlie and Charlie Palmer.( i think these 2 were brought in to rescue the hopeless situation at the time)

That was the Season when those in charge of St Mirren Football Club tipped our beloved Saints over the edge and left us in the situation where we are today.

LOSING OUR BELOVED LOVE STREET for a MONSTROSITY OF A STADIUM AT GREENHILL ROAD.

That 91/92 Fortunes of money was sanctioned from The Board to be spent on the Playing Staff under the Management of David Hay and Gordon Smith.

This led to enormous wages and outrageous Signing on fees for the likes of wasters such as Chic Charnley, David Elliot, Mark Reid, Jim Beattie and Roy Aitken who was well past it.

We were never stable again till Tesco stepped in.

Now Mr. Waters is back and wants to be our FRIEND and this particular FRIEND wants £60 of our money in return for a BRICK.

Good post shull

This is a huge improvement on your usual inane prattle about the cost of everything - if you could change that particular record most of your posts would be more edifying.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Joe

[The Real Zippy]

I've noticed that Bill Waters is part of the Group going under the banner of "Friends of St Mirren".

I don't know him or his colleagues that well but do know that Bill was on the St Mirren Board for many years as was his Father and Grandfather before him. I've heard from others they all made sterling contributions towards the stewardship of our Club.

However, it has to be remembered that Bill Waters was a member of the Saints Board in the 1991/92 Season along with - Alan Marshall

John Corson

Yuill Craig

Willie Todd

and latterly in that season Bob Earlie and Charlie Palmer.( i think these 2 were brought in to rescue the hopeless situation at the time)

That was the Season when those in charge of St Mirren Football Club tipped our beloved Saints over the edge and left us in the situation where we are today.

LOSING OUR BELOVED LOVE STREET for a MONSTROSITY OF A STADIUM AT GREENHILL ROAD.

That 91/92 Fortunes of money was sanctioned from The Board to be spent on the Playing Staff under the Management of David Hay and Gordon Smith.

This led to enormous wages and outrageous Signing on fees for the likes of wasters such as Chic Charnley, David Elliot, Mark Reid, Jim Beattie and Roy Aitken who was well past it.

We were never stable again till Tesco stepped in.

Now Mr. Waters is back and wants to be our FRIEND and this particular FRIEND wants £60 of our money in return for a BRICK.

I wouldn't just blame Hay and Smith. Tony Fitzpatrick blew £5K a week on the likes of Archibald and Victor, and blew large amounts of wonga on the likes of duds like Kinnaird and Wishart.

Much as I despise Hay, there are others just as guilty. Tony escapes the blame simply because of his connections with the club.

[Mid Calder Saint]

Shull: I take on board your comments but I seem to remember that Tony was the Manager (first time around)when we we paid a king's ransom for Wishart (300K)Manley£200K) Stickroth(£400K) Kinnaird(£100K) plus large salaries for Archibald Victor etc. Let's get all our facts right here. As for Charlie Palmer well he only ever loved Celtic however I don't deny he served us well on the Board.

[FTOF]

Shull: I take on board your comments but I seem to remember that Tony was the Manager (first time around)when we we paid a king's ransom for Wishart (300K)Manley£200K) Stickroth(£400K) Kinnaird(£100K) plus large salaries for Archibald Victor etc. Let's get all our facts right here. As for Charlie Palmer well he only ever loved Celtic however I don't deny he served us well on the Board.

Getting any of his "facts" right would be a start.

[Gary Blues]

Fitzpatrick did waste a lot of money but at least it was balanced by selling players eg we still had the Ferguson money in the bank plus sold Winnie, Cameron, Brian Hamilton for a fortune and even made a load of cash selling Chalmers, Walker, Wilson, etc. We went into the red with Davie Hay, speculating to accumulate and it all went wrong.

At the end of the day, the directors in charge at the time are to blame for allowing this to happen. But back in these days the club was used to selling players for big money and probably didn't think that we'd get relegated.

The next big problem was building the Caley Stand. That really fucked us up. That has turned out to be a monumental waste of money.

[Griff]

The truth is Fitzy did waste good money on dud players, but I quite like Fitzy, so I look upon his transfer dealings as a number of swops.

For example Hamilton, Cameron, Winnie, Walker, Cooper and Chalmers for Manley, Torfasson, Stickroth , Wishart , Black and Kinnaird.

Which still means Fitzy spent more than he received, but at least he tried to gernerate income for his spending.

Fitzys mistake was Victor and Archibald, and the effect their wages had in the dressing room.

Hay then came in a squandered money on Celtic minded duds ( I wonder if he was the agent for any of his signings)

But in the space of five years we went from a team that could pay big transfer fees and big wages, to a team that travelled to away games in a minibus and had a strike force of Alec Bone and some guy fro Dunipace Juniors.

[Reynard]

Fitzpatrick did waste a lot of money but at least it was balanced by selling players eg we still had the Ferguson money in the bank plus sold Winnie, Cameron, Brian Hamilton for a fortune and even made a load of cash selling Chalmers, Walker, Wilson, etc. We went into the red with Davie Hay, speculating to accumulate and it all went wrong.

At the end of the day, the directors in charge at the time are to blame for allowing this to happen. But back in these days the club was used to selling players for big money and probably didn't think that we'd get relegated.

The next big problem was building the Caley Stand. That really fucked us up. That has turned out to be a monumental waste of money.

Fitzpatricks transfer dealings were poor as well. He did shift on several players for money(decent money) and maybe on transfer dealings alone we broke even or close to it. But the wage bill increased dramatically with no real incres in quality on the pitch. Chalmers was on not that much money and was a 10 goal a season premier league player. He was replaced by Torfason who was on a much bigger wage and was still a ten goal a season striker.

The silly spending began under Fitzie and contined unabated for a few seasons culminating in Hays total mismanagement of the side and his signing of all his mates/clients.

The boards decisions at these times were poor to say the least and they should carry a lot of the blame for all of that.

I know that we tend to look at other clubs when they are spending recklessly and slaughter their punters for not saying or doing anything when it is happening and slagging them for lapping it all up. But we did much the same thing really. We probably suffered much worse than other clubs who have done equivalent things though.

[Griff]

When Alex Smith was manager he was promised 500k to spend on players when he took the job, I,m not too sure if the money from Stevie Clarkes transter was additional to this or the board knew that money was coming in for Stevie.

Smith signed Conroy, Martin, Davis, Walker, McWalter and Dawson for about 250k, and banked a further 850k from the sale of Ferguson.

So basically when Fitzy took over in 1988 we had a million in the bank and a decent squad, within 5 years we were almost bankrupt

I guess the board have to take responsability.

[Kemp]

The next big problem was building the Caley Stand. That really fucked us up. That has turned out to be a monumental waste of money.

No, it hasn´t. I believe for a while it was about the only thing that kept us afloat.

The board of the time have take most of the responsibility. Although I do wonder how much money Hay walked about with in his pocket. As Shull says, thanks to these clowns we almost went out of business and are now leaving Love Street to go play in a joke lego land stadium down the road.

[shull]

Good post shull

This is a huge improvement on your usual inane prattle about the cost of everything - if you could change that particular record most of your posts would be more edifying.

Do not speak - unless it improves on silence

Thank you Joe...

I took heed of your Sig. before posting.

[Gary Blues]

No, it hasn´t. I believe for a while it was about the only thing that kept us afloat.

On the contrary, if you look back at the old report and accounts there is a huge jump in the debt, £1 million+ in the season the Caley Stand was built. It cost a lot more money to build than was expected and it turned out that the club didn't own all the land at the Caley End. It cost a wad of cash sorting it all out, legal fees, etc.

The sports club under the stand barely made much profit and if you included the sports club's share of the repayments on the stand then it would certainly have been maing a loss. By the end of its time before it went into private hands, it was making a loss never mind the stand repayment share.

That stand left us with a massive loan to repay Barr Construction and it was that loan that nearly took us under in 1998. I remember the special AGM when Brealey tried to take over and Stewart Gilmour stood up to speak against it and to try and get together a consortium. His speech was all about how he would get hold of Bill Barr on the Monday to try and come up with a plan to keep the club alive.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Gary Blues

[smitchu2]

Chalmers was on not that much money and was a 10 goal a season premier league player. He was replaced by Torfason who was on a much bigger wage and was still a ten goal a season striker.

I seem to remember the reports of the day saying Torfason was being paid 350 a week and his mortgage was paid by the club too - oh the glamour of the Premier League!! (that was double what he was getting from previous his club with the mortgage paid on top).

[Reynard]

I seem to remember the reports of the day saying Torfason was being paid 350 a week and his mortgage was paid by the club too - oh the glamour of the Premier League!! (that was double what he was getting from previous his club with the mortgage paid on top).

He was on a bit more than that. But certainly nothing like the money that gets chucked around nowadays.

Those boys all got their signing on fees too which boosted their earnings.

[No Ninjas]

Stickroth and Torfason were well worth the money we paid for, and on them. Kinnaird did a turn for us too, as did a few others mentioned here.

[northendsaint]

Stickroth and Torfason were well worth the money we paid for, and on them. Kinnaird did a turn for us too, as did a few others mentioned here.

St Mirren 1 Ceptic 0

Rancid 0 St Mirren 1

Ceptic o St Mirren 3

All in the one season with Gunni in the team.

[windae cleaner]

Stickroth and Torfason were well worth the money we paid for, and on them. Kinnaird did a turn for us too, as did a few others mentioned here.

Stickroth, Manley and Wishart were poor value for the money we shelled out for them. Torfason was a one season wonder and at least we got some money back from him unlike the others.

[The Real Zippy]

Stickroth, Manley and Wishart were poor value for the money we shelled out for them. Torfason was a one season wonder and at least we got some money back from him unlike the others.

We did get some money for big George Michael when we sold him to FC Saarbrucken, albeit at a massive loss.

[scottd]

The BOD should always be held accountable for financial affairs at a club, be they good or bad. It was the board who made the mistake of appointing Fitzy and then compounded that error by employing that cnut H*y. They then allowed both to spend ludicrous amounts of money on shit players, money that had been carefully built up over a number of seasons. No matter how good the intentions the directors of that era must accept blame for sanctioning financial hari-kari.

As for the brick, they know where they can shove that!

[FTOF]

On the contrary, if you look back at the old report and accounts there is a huge jump in the debt, £1 million+ in the season the Caley Stand was built. It cost a lot more money to build than was expected and it turned out that the club didn't own all the land at the Caley End. It cost a wad of cash sorting it all out, legal fees, etc.

The sports club under the stand barely made much profit and if you included the sports club's share of the repayments on the stand then it would certainly have been maing a loss. By the end of its time before it went into private hands, it was making a loss never mind the stand repayment share.

That stand left us with a massive loan to repay Barr Construction and it was that loan that nearly took us under in 1998. I remember the special AGM when Brealey tried to take over and Stewart Gilmour stood up to speak against it and to try and get together a consortium. His speech was all about how he would get hold of Bill Barr on the Monday to try and come up with a plan to keep the club alive.

Of course we spent stupid amounts of money that in hindsight we shouldn't have on a succession of wasters and quite correctly the directors at the time should shoulder the responsibility.Although to be fair I'm sure the fans at the time were quite happy to accept our big money spending, something that we constantly deride fans of Dundee and Motherwell for doing.

The directors didn't shirk their responsibility for their financial mismanagement. Once they realised that they had fucked up the finances, they did things like remortgaging(100%) their houses to try and bail the club out.In fact this tactic might have worked if it wasn't for the construction of the Caley stand, as has been stated previously.

However the board, which included certain members being derided on here also got rid of a succession of very average players for ridiculous amounts of money. i.e. Cameron, Winnie and Hamilton went for a total of around £750K.Sheer genius if you ask me.

Also, the core of the board in the 80's, again which included certain aforementioned members, ensured that throughout the 80's St.Mirren were [apart from Dundee United] the best run team financially in Scotland.This as some of you will remember allowed us to outbid the old scum for certain players.We were always well in the black in those days in terms of finance.

People tend to forget these bits though in order to suit their own bitter and pathetic little agenda.

If you speak to some of these board members they will hold their hands up about their poor managerial appointments and their desperate attempts (Archibald and Victor for example) at the time to keep us in the top league.

It was a horrible time for the club and the fans, which many clubs have been through and some are still well enshrined in the debt culture.We should be big enough to move on from this and be positive about the future, instead of whining like a spoilt little brat because they don't like the colour of their new dummy.

Edited August 4, 2008 by FTOF