Bud the Baker Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Simon_Towel said: Remember when finishing 8th in the premiership wasn't good enough? Get DL on the phone and beg him to come back In context it was 8th in a division with no Rangers and an understrength Hearts team, the season also included a LC exit to Championship side QotS so overall it was borderline adequate. The mistake was appointing Tommy Craig (a guy with one inherited spell as manager) as his replacement, presumably as I said at the time, with a brief to mentor Teale and Goodwin as his replacements - overall the weakest management team at a top flight club I can remember. With no pay-off required we could have got an experienced and motivated manager not someone seeing out his final contract before retirement. Lennon will probably be sitting by the phone you mention as he has done nothing to prove it was the wrong decision in his subsequent posts. Always happy to refight yesterday's battles. Edited September 12, 2016 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Towel Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 In context we are bottom of a first division with Ayr United and Dumbarton in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 3 hours ago, Simon_Towel said: In context we are bottom of a first division with Ayr United and Dumbarton in it Yeah but it's a different context, still I'm glad to see you're entering the spirit of the forum - if you wait long enough you're bound to find a manager you want sacked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmac Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Bring back DL to end of season as Rae's boss, how long reckon Rae would last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Bring back DL to end of season as Rae's boss, how long reckon Rae would last? If we could fuse them and get a hybrid I reckon we would be on to a winner. I believe Danny was too soft and too loyal to some who ended up backstabbing him. Looks like the opposite approach may be reaping similar results for Rae. Laterally, I believe Danny had learned and changed his approach and that is why I advocated another 1 year contract. Maybe Rae will learn on the job... Hopefully before the point of no return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmac Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 One hopes but I have my doubts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 We are getting what we deserved. We win a cup, stay up 4 years in a row, and too many fans can't wait to see the back of the manager who achieved it. Fans thought we were too big to be bottom six. Then we were too big not to be in the playoffs after being relegated. Are we now too big to go down to the third tier? Well done everybody... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 My only appreciation is that both of them are long gone from Saints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 3 hours ago, Soctty said: We are getting what we deserved. We win a cup, stay up 4 years in a row, and too many fans can't wait to see the back of the manager who achieved it. Fans thought we were too big to be bottom six. Then we were too big not to be in the playoffs after being relegated. Are we now too big to go down to the third tier? Well done everybody... Danny's contract was up, it wasn't the fans who did not offer him a new contract - that was the BOD. Danny had his time and there were far more downs than ups. It was the actions of Gilmour et al who have caused this demise, first by not bringing in an experienced manager and going with TC who was a bombscare. They dallied and finally removed TC only to give the job to a rookie in GT. If you are going to blame anyone blame the old board for where we are. Their swan song was giving the job to Rae after the failures of another young rookie manager - why, I have no idea as there must have been a better choice out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 17 hours ago, nedflanders123 said: Danny's contract was up, it wasn't the fans who did not offer him a new contract - that was the BOD. Danny had his time and there were far more downs than ups. It was the actions of Gilmour et al who have caused this demise, first by not bringing in an experienced manager and going with TC who was a bombscare. They dallied and finally removed TC only to give the job to a rookie in GT. If you are going to blame anyone blame the old board for where we are. Their swan song was giving the job to Rae after the failures of another young rookie manager - why, I have no idea as there must have been a better choice out there? The last few games of his tenure proved he could motivate the players at his disposal. We looked dead and buried but somehow managed to go on a run of one loss out of that last seven. That made me think he was worthy of another season and I said so at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted September 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 DL & TC St Mirren Legends Thanks for 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 3 hours ago, stlucifer said: The last few games of his tenure proved he could motivate the players at his disposal. We looked dead and buried but somehow managed to go on a run of one loss out of that last seven. That made me think he was worthy of another season and I said so at the time. Yes, but what about the 31 games beforehand? If Danny was a good motivator we perhaps wouldn't have had to wait until the last 7 games? I liked Danny and he wore his heart on his sleeve and loved the club. Who knows what would have happened if he stayed on but the BOD had other plans and fecked it up big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Just now, nedflanders123 said: Yes, but what about the 31 games beforehand? If Danny was a good motivator we perhaps wouldn't have had to wait until the last 7 games? I liked Danny and he wore his heart on his sleeve and loved the club. Who knows what would have happened if he stayed on but the BOD had other plans and fecked it up big time. Each to their own. I just thought he was learning and it might have stood him in good stead for the next campaign with much of the squad in place. Difference of opinion on this for some but undoubtedly, almost without exception, what followed was, and is, horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) History now shows us that the truism bandied about for at least half of DL's tenure that 'anybody' could do better than 'wee clueless' [(C) Tedious Tom] with our 'top 6' squad has proven not to be the case. First season without DL = relegation. Four managers later and second season without DL = 6th in Championship. I didn't think Danny was a brilliant manager but I thought he did pretty well for us. I think he was clearly going to look at strengthening the defence had he been given a further contract - DVZ and Mair and Barron were all either released, sent out on loan or dropped that season and Naismith and Kelly broke into the team and did well. If there was a dressing room revolt that season I think he would have dealt with that as well... I'm sure Goodwin and Teale were at the end of their contracts that summer. As for our top 6 squad... Samson might finish the season in the top 6 with Motherwell this season after a few seasons in and out of a bottom 6 Killie team. If Carey had stayed on at Ross County he might have remained in their starting XI and finished in the top 6 with them. Darren McGregor's 3 seasons after leaving us have all been in the Championship with Rangers and then Hibs. Paul McGowan, Paul McGinn and Gary Harkins all played for Dundee as they finished in the top 6. Paul McGinn never played for our first team and when he did Gary Harkins was regularly lampooned by our fans. Dougie Imrie has finished as high as 7th as a regular with Hamilton Accies, when Hasselbaink moved to St Johnstone he hardly started a game for them, which leaves Kenny McLean as the only St Mirren player to move to another SPL side break into the starting XI regularly and finish in the top 6 for 2 seasons running. We then coming to DL being a disaster in the transfer market. Can I take the time to list our signings after Danny Lennon left: Mark Ridgers James Marwood Ellis Plummer Ross Caldwell Jeroen Tesselaar Callum Ball Adam Drury Isaac Osborne Yoann Arquin James Dayton Emmanuel Sonupe Kieran Sadlier Alan Gow (twice) Viktor Genev Scott Agnew Stuart Carswell Paul McMullan Luke Conlan Cameron Howieson Calum Gallagher (twice) Jamie Langfield Keith Watson Lawrence Shankland (on loan twice) Andy Webster (twice) Jaison McGrath Craig Reid Rocco Quinn (twice) David Clarkson (twice) Gary Irvine Alex Cooper Kyle Hutton Ben Gordon Scott Gallacher Tom Walsh John Sutton Ryan Hardie. I make that 36 players signed in the last 3 seasons since DL moved on. Keith Watson was good last season, Tesselaar was fine the season before that. Not sure if we have had too many out and out successes from 5 post-DL transfer windows. Lennon did sign a lot of duds who were paid off by mutual consent... but in 8 windows he did bring in guys who did a reasonable job for us like: Craig Samson (Scotland squad call up with St Mirren), Marian Kello, Jeroen Tesselaar, Darren McGregor, Marc McAusland, Jim Goodwin, Paul McGowan, Graham Carey, Dougie Imrie, Gary Teale, Paul Dummet, Connor Newton, Isma Goncalves, Nigel Hasselbaink, Stephen Thompson and brought through guys from our youth set up like Kenny McLean, John McGinn, Thomas Reilly, Jason Naismith and Sean Kelly. In DL's 4 seasons he brought in at least 20 players who were alright on our budget, or an average of 5 a season. I'm not sure that 'disastrous' recruitment has been matched or bettered since! After DL moved on the form of guys like Kello, Naismith, Kelly, Goodwin, McGinn, Wylde and Thompson all nose-dived. The only player you could argue who improved was Kenny McLean, and even then he had been very good for 4 season under Danny Lennon. Edited September 17, 2016 by Dibbles old paperboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 On 9/16/2016 at 3:32 PM, nedflanders123 said: Danny's contract was up, it wasn't the fans who did not offer him a new contract - that was the BOD. Danny had his time and there were far more downs than ups. It was the actions of Gilmour et al who have caused this demise, first by not bringing in an experienced manager and going with TC who was a bombscare. They dallied and finally removed TC only to give the job to a rookie in GT. If you are going to blame anyone blame the old board for where we are. Their swan song was giving the job to Rae after the failures of another young rookie manager - why, I have no idea as there must have been a better choice out there? Blaming the chairman for going with the clamour from the vocal element of the support is quite right. It doesn't detract from the fact that an awful lot of loud voices among the support were telling anyone who would listen that we should be in the top six, that Lennon hadn't a clue what he was doing. A lot of fans were telling us we were too good for the bottom six - how did that work out? A lot of fans were telling us the Cup win papered over the cracks - maybe the manager was holding things together, despite the cracks? Appointing Tommy Craig was a cheapskate move, but then some of us knew that this was what we normally do when sacking (sorry, not renewing the contract of) a manager - appoint the assistant. Check your history. The old board made a lot mistakes, but the only one which to my mind was driven by the fans against the good of the club was to get rid of Danny Lennon without there being a better manager to come in. Every other action after that was a reaction to us slipping quickly down the leagues. Lennon kept us in the top league, won us a cup, yet some still say it was the right time for him to go. It was certainly the right time from his point of view - he doesn't need to be associated with the bampot club that remained in his aftermath... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) Duplicate post. Edited September 20, 2016 by Soctty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) eh...duplicate post... Edited September 20, 2016 by Soctty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) Another...please delete... Edited September 20, 2016 by Soctty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 Bit like our managers lately, delete, delete, delete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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