Stuart Dickson Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Agree with you that in the grand scheme of things there are more important things to concern ourselves with - but if we're simply talking about the bid in isolation, a bullshit free explanation to supporters is very much required. From the incumbent BOD - at public meetings, SG told us he believed in the CIC bid. Many fans travelled to attend these meetings to hear what was said, because we all care for St Mirren. We also travelled to hear a message of impending doom and armageddon from our BOD. Every season under SGs reign, as supporters, we backed his yearly appeal to renew our STs and back the team. From 10000hours side, supporters in large numbers agreed to back the bid, and stuck with it. Ordinary supporters stepped up to the plate. I don't think a bullshit free explanation as to why a three-year long process that deeply involved St Mirren supporters has failed is too much to ask. Agree with most of that Poz. Around 33% of the clubs customers who were prepared to financially back the 52% share purchase are being told they got it wrong by 5 consortium members looking to cash in their shares to enjoy a stress free retirement. Normally telling your customers that they were wrong is bad business practice - and you would think that the only way to turn that around would be to face their customers and explain exactly why they believe the customers got it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 10000 hrs and they are now officially experts in failure...is there much call for failure consultancy these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 I really don't know what else to say about this. I've started composing a few posts only to hit the back button and not bother completing them. There was undoubtedly an impressive mobilisation of support for the concept of direct supporter involvement in the club, and the biggest pity is that I'd be very surprised if we ever see anything approaching that again. Of course this isn't life or death, and I don't recall anyone suggesting that it is. Yes, a perspective is required, but a lot of people invest a lot of time and money into following St Mirren, so this latest twist in what has become an excrutiating saga cannot simply be shrugged off. I won't be holding my breath waiting for any form of adequate explanation as to why this has ultimately fallen through. I see no point in looking to apportion blame as such, and only feel a sense of resignation. It is all too predictable. As I say, it is a shame that a groundswell of positive support that galvanised hundereds of supporters who were willing to take a punt on a commendable enough notion has not been sustainable. A missed opportunity? Probably. What will the alternative be? Over to Messrs Gilmour and Co. Only you can answer that one. I'm not sure if I've got the enthusiasim required to hope that we'll see a positive outcome. Perhaps its easier not to care too much. I'm not sure if I will for much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 I'd love to see SMiSA table a biid but I simply don't know how they going to raise £1.5m in finance John ? Is that negative ? It is very negative div....probably more so than anything we've seen in relation to 10000 hrs. You appear to be writing off SMiSA without the slightest consideration after supporting 10000 hrs for months after it was clear they couldn't sustain the club. SMiSA with a £10,000 per month income becomes a very different prospect. They may not own the club, but then again the fans were never going to own the club under 10000 hrs either. Within 6 months fans could fit out the supporters bar with the profits going directly to the club. Why pish all over that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 At least during the three years the bid process rumbled on, St Mirren continued to operate normally. Bills were paid, players were signed, life went on without any signs that the bid was interfering with the day to day running of the place. Life goes on, all I'm looking for is some clarity as to what caused three years of hard work and effort to fail to launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 At least during the three years the bid process rumbled on, St Mirren continued to operate normally. Bills were paid, players were signed, life went on without any signs that the bid was interfering with the day to day running of the place. Life goes on, all I'm looking for is some clarity as to what caused three years of hard work and effort to fail to launch. poz you know fine well why it failed. Stop trying to cause trouble for the guys who are still running the club. 10000 hrs failed. Time to move on. No one forced anyone to work on the bid. They rolled the dice and the bid was f"k'd when they failed to secure the initial £750K of funding. That is when the gig was up and the bandwagon should have packed up and left town at that point. Instead they tried every scumbag tactic from scaremongering about job losses to trying to convince fans we should save the newco. You knew there was a shortfall and question marks over the cashflow but you continued campaigning on behalf of the project. Trying to pretend that the selling consortium are somehow in the wrong is pish poor Bud. Accept the decision and move on. The club was saved today and you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fras Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 I would presume that with there now being "another show in town", then some of the reasons for the 10,000 hours bid being rejected may be down to the detail of what these people may be lining up, and as such, the BoD probably aren't in the best position to go into too much detail just yet, to satisfy those clamouring for an explanation. I'm sure they will in the fullness of time if asked. As a potential buyer, the BoD gave RA a seat on the board, and have stuck by him for almost 3 years, and countless deadlines. In any form of business, this is extremely flexible and generous. That this flexibility and generosity expired today shouldn't have come as any great surprise, especially if someone else rolls up who may actually have their bullets in the chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 I would presume that with there now being "another show in town", then some of the reasons for the 10,000 hours bid being rejected may be down to the detail of what these people may be lining up, and as such, the BoD probably aren't in the best position to go into too much detail just yet, to satisfy those clamouring for an explanation. I'm sure they will in the fullness of time if asked. As a potential buyer, the BoD gave RA a seat on the board, and have stuck by him for almost 3 years, and countless deadlines. In any form of business, this is extremely flexible and generous. That this flexibility and generosity expired today shouldn't have come as any great surprise, especially if someone else rolls up who may actually have their bullets in the chamber. Is it generous? At the end of the day, they wanted to sign off the deal as much as Atkinson, if it meant them getting their cash. They wouldn't have entertained it if there were any other viable bids on the table. No-one else was willing to give them £2M, let's face it. Atkinson was intially trying to raise as close to this figure as possible, and Gilmour et al would have been happy to entertain him while there was the remotest chance that this figure could be realised. The game has clearly changed now, and they know that the £2M fantasy is out the window. Generous? I think not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 I would presume that with there now being "another show in town", then some of the reasons for the 10,000 hours bid being rejected may be down to the detail of what these people may be lining up, and as such, the BoD probably aren't in the best position to go into too much detail just yet, to satisfy those clamouring for an explanation. I'm sure they will in the fullness of time if asked. As a potential buyer, the BoD gave RA a seat on the board, and have stuck by him for almost 3 years, and countless deadlines. In any form of business, this is extremely flexible and generous. That this flexibility and generosity expired today shouldn't have come as any great surprise, especially if someone else rolls up who may actually have their bullets in the chamber. Fras, I'm not having a dig at either the selling consortium or the 10000hours bidders. Both parties have actively interacted with St Mirren supporters over the past three years - both in relation to tbe CIC bid, and more recently, the Sevco debacle. They call meetings - ask fans to attend to hear them... We attended. I would just like to see them interact with us now, by providing us with a clear and concise explanation of what happened, and what (if any) supporter involvement will be looked for now that the CIC plan has hit the buffers. Silence, and forgetting about the pledges of fans to both 10000hours bid, and the Nero Blanco anti-armageddon fund isn't acceptable... In my humble opinion. They engage with supporters when ST renewals are required, when funding for a planned takeover is required, and when fcuking Rangers implode... they need to engage with those same supporters now. Again, just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 poz why wasn't it revealed until this morning that REA and GLS would have to be guarantors for the lack of capital / cashflow? If we are going to demand an inquest then it has to work both ways. It was known that would be required prior to the last big push for direct debit mandates. Why weren't fans told this by 10000 hrs along with the very basic information about how badly underfunded the bid was? They were very economical with the truth despite repeated challenges from supporters for detailed information. Thye withheld fairly critical information regarding the level of risk to the club as well as the level of control the 10000 hrs key players would have over the CIC and ultimately the club. The fans would have been underwriting disaster. This wasn't a revelation over the last couple of days. It was known for some time and not divulged. Instead there were demands on the selling consortium to accept the deal just because a minority of fans signed up to the deal, under pressure caused by false scaremongering. 10000 hrs tried to mug supporters. The club was saved today and you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 we can speculate all we like on why this failed - such as sausage roll thieves pledging allegiance and not putting up dough, goverment cash being almost promised and then the plug pulled, the speculation that many would sign up for £3k and £25k memberships (good on those who did, but poor form from those who promised they would join but just wanted sausage rolls and had no intention of carrying it through), If we get any explanation from 10000hrs then hopefully it is a full explanation, i wouldn't fault them though for feeling disinterested after such a long process of giving effort and time only to end in failure. SMISA is an option for putting money into development, but not for a buy out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fras Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Sounds very boring, but I genuinely believe that SG & Co liked the idea of the CiC style ownership (as did many of us). That's not the issue. Anyway, I spent countless hours and cash following SMFC around the fleshpots of Div 1 when Big Daddy Bone was in charge. I turned up at all the games of a mind-numbingly sh*te 44 league game season in the early 90s. They called for the fans to attend and save the club. I came, I saw, and I almost had a coronary at the Jim Gardner/Alex Bone horror show. Did I clamour for an an answer from Bob Earlie ? No...but I f*cking should have. BTW Poz - last post was fair comment Bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Sounds very boring, but I genuinely believe that SG & Co liked the idea of the CiC style ownership (as did many of us). That's not the issue. Anyway, I spent countless hours and cash following SMFC around the fleshpots of Div 1 when Big Daddy Bone was in charge. I turned up at all the games of a mind-numbingly sh*te 44 league game season in the early 90s. They called for the fans to attend and save the club. I came, I saw, and I almost had a coronary at the Jim Gardner/Alex Bone horror show. Did I clamour for an an answer from Bob Earlie ? No...but I f*cking should have. BTW Poz - last post was fair comment Bud. FFS Fras... Jimmy and Alex Bone, AND the 90s mentioned in one post? Too much! Brrrrr! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Sounds very boring, but I genuinely believe that SG & Co liked the idea of the CiC style ownership (as did many of us). That's not the issue. Anyway, I spent countless hours and cash following SMFC around the fleshpots of Div 1 when Big Daddy Bone was in charge. I turned up at all the games of a mind-numbingly sh*te 44 league game season in the early 90s. They called for the fans to attend and save the club. I came, I saw, and I almost had a coronary at the Jim Gardner/Alex Bone horror show. Did I clamour for an an answer from Bob Earlie ? No...but I f*cking should have. BTW Poz - last post was fair comment Bud. Time to get back to being supporters.....drink beer, buy ticket, watch game, drink beer...disect game in Internet...have a laugh and a joke at each others expense.....then get revv'd up for the next installment of joy or torture from the Patron Saint of pain. All this ownership bollox has been a disaster for the support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Time to get back to being supporters.....drink beer, buy ticket, watch game, drink beer...disect game in Internet...have a laugh and a joke at each others expense.....then get revv'd up for the next installment of joy or torture from the Patron Saint of pain. All this ownership bollox has been a disaster for the support. i wouldn't say it has been a complete disaster for the support, a bit of a waste of time and a feeling of being treated like mushrooms maybe.But it has shown there is a desire from fans to get involved and back the club even more than they already do, which is a triumph IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil_Panda Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Time to get back to being supporters.....drink beer, buy ticket, watch game, drink beer...disect game in Internet...have a laugh and a joke at each others expense.....then get revv'd up for the next installment of joy or torture from the Patron Saint of pain. All this ownership bollox has been a disaster for the support. Some bruised egos may take longer to heal than others. At least the consortium were smart enough to spot a doomed venture when others couldn't. Okay, first task for the next commercial director, buy rubber ducks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 i wouldn't say it has been a complete disaster for the support, a bit of a waste of time and a feeling of being treated like mushrooms maybe. But it has shown there is a desire from fans to get involved and back the club even more than they already do, which is a triumph IMO We should keep the momentum of fan support going. Only show in town now is SMiSA. We all get behind SMiSA. If the same energy is put into SMiSA a lot could be acheived. First step is to join. Next step to decide what we want to achieve. I'll be completing my form tomorrow night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) Edited September 10, 2012 by St. Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 We should keep the momentum of fan support going. Only show in town now is SMiSA. We all get behind SMiSA. If the same energy is put into SMiSA a lot could be acheived. First step is to join. Next step to decide what we want to achieve. I'll be completing my form tomorrow night. well i'll join as well.just as soon as they have £1.5m to buy the 52% on offer and enough in reserve to sustain the club in emergencies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 well i'll join as well. just as soon as they have £1.5m to buy the 52% on offer and enough in reserve to sustain the club in emergencies apples and pears Buddiecat. Guess what...you all pledged money to 10000 hrs when it had no chance of being successful. Blind man could see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) Edited September 10, 2012 by St. Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Time to get back to being supporters.....drink beer, buy ticket, watch game, drink beer...disect game in Internet...have a laugh and a joke at each others expense.....then get revv'd up for the next installment of joy or torture from the Patron Saint of pain. All this ownership bollox has been a disaster for the support. I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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