Possible New Ticketing Initiative

[pozbaird]

Its for both

If the club introduced a non-stand and non-seat specific smartcard, then tickets sold from the stadium ticket office on matchdays would need to be amended to also be non-stand and non-seat specific to avoid new 'floating' smartcard holders choosing a place to sit, then along comes an on-the-day ticket purchaser clutching a ticket allocated to that seat.

If both the new smartcards and on-the day purchases were simply entry to anywhere in the home stands, then that would avoid any 'you're sitting in my seat' issues.

With usually 4,500 to 5,000 gates in an 8,000 plus capacity ground, I don't think we'd encounter a situation whereby one of the three home stands would be swamped with no seats once punters were through the turnstiles - but unlikely as that scenario might be, I suspect the police and the club would need some sort of mechanism to ensure that couldn't happen.

[Drew]

On the concerns surrounding the 2nd tier 'ST' impacting on standard ST sales, I'd offer the following response:

- as already mentioned in response to an earlier post from Div, I think the majority of current ST holders value having their specific, reserved seat too much to give this up in favour of a pay as you go smartcard. Most transferred to the equivalent seat in the new stadium when we moved from Love Street, so that serves as an indication that having your seat, often alongside your family and friends, is a real draw (this applies to me, BTW, as I moved across to the equivalent seat, before giving up my ST);

- the 2nd tier ST would be subordinate to the maintstream ST system. The mainstream ST would still offer the best value on a per match basis, and the seat is taken, simple as that.

- the above points link to one of the reasons why I see value in the proposed facility. I think it is perhaps fair to say that the best seats in the house (or certainly the most popular) are already taken, and are likely to remain so for the foreseeable future. That's entirely fair enough, and is something I have absolutely no issue with. So where does this leave other people who want to demonstrate a bit more commitment to attending matches, but with some of the convenience a smartcard system offers. Well, the flexibility of buying online (or pre-loading at the ticket office); having your pick of stands; securing a modest discount if block purchasing matches; and accessing other amenities such as the supporters bar;

- there is also an element of psychology here. I think a lot of people still waver about going along to a match right up to matchday itself, or even closer to KO (weather and other factors often dictate). I know I still do on occasion. If people had a smartcard, they would be likely to buy a 'ticket' (or tickets) in advance. Let's say, for example, that Saints turn on the style tonight and put in a great performance. If I had a smartcard, I might be inclined, on the back of this, to sign up for the Ross County match at the weekend, and that would be me committed, with the money in the club's coffers. If, however, I hold off to the weekend, the weather might be hellish, and my better half might have found something else for me to occupy my Saturday afternoon with. Or I might think to myself that I cannot afford to go along to the match after all;

- ST sales have been largely static for a good few years now, so I think any inititive that makes it more straightforward for people to attend matches has to be positive. For people like myself, who have given up their STs, and no longer have the option of re-purchasing their seat, as it were, this seems like a decent option. I also think that some people who signed up for the 2nd tier ST, might actually opt for a standard ST in the future, having found an area of the stadium that they particularly like, possibly alongside friends and family.

[steve_the_saint]

The only issue I can think of would be for the busier games where there are not many free seats together and people generally have to sit in their allocated seat (ie OF games). To prevent this it would be wise to ensure the customer prints out their confirmation email detailing what seat they are in.

Also, I don't if the smatcard company has the facility, but this would enable an automated service whereby a self serve machine would be used to swipe ur card and pay by debit card at the ground. Several of these could be located at each turnstyle, reducing the queues for tickets at the mainstand and preventing weststand/ south stand customers from walking all the way round to get their tickets.

Another possibility could be to introduce a half season ticket at the start of the season. This would allow people to pick and choose the matches they want to/ are able to go to. The card would be charged with 10 matches/credits at the start of the season and matches can be bought with 1 credit throughout the season.

[Guest somner9]

What possible outcome do you go with?

We have a good result tonight, someone with a smartcard loads up for saturday that may not have gone if they didn't have a smartcard?

We finish bottom six this season - a significant number of cheesed (no pun intended) off ST holders opt for the PAYG smartcard next season with some discount and the option to stick it in the sock drawer if we have a pish run?

We can't stand still, we need to offer incentives to lock people in to attending, I would suggest start with packages chosen by the club "3 games incl celtic with 5 - 10% off". then you could have smartcards in a couple of hundred extra hands who might top up for saturday, or be tempted by the next smartcard specific package deal? the difference from ST's needs to be SIGNIFICANT and seen as such by all parties.

[Drew]

If the club introduced a non-stand and non-seat specific smartcard, then tickets sold from the stadium ticket office on matchdays would need to be amended to also be non-stand and non-seat specific to avoid new 'floating' smartcard holders choosing a place to sit, then along comes an on-the-day ticket purchaser clutching a ticket allocated to that seat.

If both the new smartcards and on-the day purchases were simply entry to anywhere in the home stands, then that would avoid any 'you're sitting in my seat' issues.

With usually 4,500 to 5,000 gates in an 8,000 plus capacity ground, I don't think we'd encounter a situation whereby one of the three home stands would be swamped with no seats once punters were through the turnstiles - but unlikely as that scenario might be, I suspect the police and the club would need some sort of mechanism to ensure that couldn't happen.

I don't think this would be a huge issue, Paul.

There wouldn't be a ticket available for purchase on the day if a smartcard holder had already added it to their card. On the flip side, if someone purchased a specific seat on the day, and found a smartcard holder sitting on it (because s/he opted not to sit on the seat selected online or previously at the ticket office), the latter would have to give it up if necessary. People need to be grown-up about these things, and, by and large, I think they would be.

[Drew]

What possible outcome do you go with?

We have a good result tonight, someone with a smartcard loads up for saturday that may not have gone if they didn't have a smartcard?

We finish bottom six this season - a significant number of cheesed (no pun intended) off ST holders opt for the PAYG smartcard next season with some discount and the option to stick it in the sock drawer if we have a pish run?

We can't stand still, we need to offer incentives to lock people in to attending, I would suggest start with packages chosen by the club "3 games incl celtic with 5 - 10% off". then you could have smartcards in a couple of hundred extra hands who might top up for saturday, or be tempted by the next smartcard specific package deal? the difference from ST's needs to be SIGNIFICANT and seen as such by all parties.

We didn't hemorrhage ST holders when we were routinely flirting with relegation, and I don't think the proposed system would offer enough to attract existing ST holders away from the current set-up. The main appeal would be for non-ST holders, and a small handful of those who might consider the 2nd tier system as offering more flexiblity than the mainstream option. As I've said above, ST sales tend to be pretty static across seasons, and I don't see any significant change in this. The proposed system would hopefully attract other people along based on a sense of signing up for something that has greater flexibility and convenience - oh, and possibly a modest discount in certain circumstances - but also an option that would be beneficial to the club (assuming people opt to pre-load matches).

[Sonny]

Great idea Drew. Anything that helps attract customers is a good thing. Although a ST holder in a great seat I like the concept of a PAYG card as I know a family member that would maybe use such a card as they are financially strapped and maybe now and then I could add a game to their card.

The other point I would like to make is about ST holders. On occasion I would like to sit in one of the other stands. I would like to be able to have my great seat most weeks but now and then sit with my mate and his kids in the South Stand or even sit in the Main Stand when once in a blue moon my girlfriend fancies a game. Obviously that couldn't happen in sell-out games but how many of them have we had?

Anyway, keep the ideas coming.

[pozbaird]

I don't think this would be a huge issue, Paul.

There wouldn't be a ticket available for purchase on the day if a smartcard holder had already added it to their card. On the flip side, if someone purchased a specific seat on the day, and found a smartcard holder sitting on it (because s/he opted not to sit on the seat selected online or previously at the ticket office), the latter would have to give it up if necessary. People need to be grown-up about these things, and, by and large, I think they would be.

Drew,

I think the new 'sit anywhere in any of the three stands' 'ST lite' idea has merit - but I don't see how you could do that without also making the tickets sold across the counter from the ticket office window follow the same pattern.

Our opinion of how much of a problem it causes is irrelevant. The fact is that if new 'ST lites' and window-sold tickets don't observe the same rules, that immediately causes a problem that currently doesn't exist. If the idea is to make things better and easier then I disagree with introducing a new problem.

As I say, opinions don't enter into it if five minutes before kick off, three guys who have bought tickets at the window for three specific seats come along the row to find those seats filled by 'sit anywhere' punters.

Why not make window-sold tickets 'sit anywhere' as well?

Edited September 25, 2012 by pozbaird

[Drew]

Drew,

I think the new 'sit anywhere in any of the three stands' 'ST lite' idea has merit - but I don't see how you could do that without also making the tickets sold across the counter from the ticket office window follow the same pattern.

Our opinion of how much of a problem it causes is irrelevant. The fact is that if new 'ST lites' and window-sold tickets don't observe the same rules immediately causes a problem that currently doesn't exist. If the idea is to make things better and easier then I disagree with introducing a new problem.

As I say, opinions don't enter into it if five minutes before kick off, three guys who have bought tickets at the window for three specific seats come along the row to find those seats filled by 'sit anywhere' punters.

Why not make window-sold tickets 'sit anywhere' as well?

I really don't see where the perceived problem lies. I often buy a ticket on the day and park my arse wherever I fancy. On occasion, someone has subsequently rolled up with a ticket specifying that seat. I've shifted. Pretty straightforward really. You say that the problem doesn't already exist. I would suggest that I've just evidenced that the situation does currently exist, only I wouldn't consider it a problem.

I agree that there is no reason not to have all tickets non-seat specific, but I'm not convinced that this need be a deal maker.

[pozbaird]

I really don't see where the perceived problem lies. I often buy a ticket on the day and park my arse wherever I fancy. On occasion, someone has subsequently rolled up with a ticket specifying that seat. I've shifted. Pretty straightforward really. You say that the problem doesn't already exist. I would suggest that I've just evidenced that the situation does currently exist, only I wouldn't consider it a problem.

I agree that there is no reason not to have all tickets non-seat specific, but I'm not convinced that this need be a deal maker.

As I say, I think it's a great idea, but as things stand, everything in the three home stands is stand and seat specific. We have ST holders and individual match tickets. This new plan introduces a third way of doing things. I like the sound of it, seems bonkers to me not to simply have these new cards and window sold individual tickets both be 'sit anywhere'.

What is to be gained by keeping window-sold tickets seat specific once any new smartcard 'lite' scheme is 'free for any seat that doesn't have a smug uber-fan ST holder plonked in it'?

Love the idea - just raising a flag. Make em' both free to sit anywhere and you don't create the problem at all.

[Drew]

As I say, I think it's a great idea, but as things stand, everything in the three home stands is stand and seat specific. We have ST holders and individual match tickets. This new plan introduces a third way of doing things. I like the sound of it, seems bonkers to me not to simply have these new cards and window sold individual tickets both be 'sit anywhere'.

What is to be gained by keeping window-sold tickets seat specific once any new smartcard 'lite' scheme is 'free for any seat that doesn't have a smug uber-fan ST holder plonked in it'?

Love the idea - just raising a flag. Make em' both free to sit anywhere and you don't create the problem at all.

As I say Paul, I don't disagree that making all non-ST tickets non-seat specific makes sense. As things stand, though, the club know that people buy tickets and pretty much sit where they like, and they are absolutely fine with this. For this reason alone, I don't think it is too big a deal. If the club were concerned about potential flare-ups, they wouldn't be so relaxed about things as they currently are (I have this from the horse's mouth, BTW).

[pozbaird]

As I say Paul, I don't disagree that making all non-ST tickets non-seat specific makes sense. As things stand, though, the club know that people buy tickets and pretty much sit where they like, and they are absolutely fine with this. For this reason alone, I don't think it is too big a deal. If the club were concerned about potential flare-ups, they wouldn't be so relaxed about things as they currently are (I have this from the horse's mouth, BTW).

Someone on the feeshal' website said that they work offshore and would buy a new 'Smartcard lite' and load it with games they were home for.

Definitely a good idea and thinks outside the (three) boxes!

[Drew]

Someone on the feeshal' website said that they work offshore and would buy a new 'Smartcard lite' and load it with games they were home for.

Definitely a good idea and thinks outside the (three) boxes!

Shoe boxes?

[E=Mc2]

All I'm pointing out is that its possible to invite your mates and sit with them at present. Many people already do.

I'm not criticising the OPs initiative, just letting the person that feels he can't sit with his mates know that he, in fact, can.

I've had, on occasion, swapped stands to be with others already and have done this by entering the usual turnstile and explaining to a steward what I want. After they radio their supervisor or whoever I have then been escorted where I wanted to go. If this system makes that process easier then I have no issues with it.

I do realise that if my friends move to the margins of the stand I could sit with them, but ideally I would want to purchase tickets early to get them as close to the halfway line as possible. If they do not then have an empty seat next to them we would have to shift to the edges of the crowd.

I would like friends who come to have as good an experience as possible and give thought to coming back under their own volition.

[Guest somner9]

Someone on the feeshal' website said that they work offshore and would buy a new 'Smartcard lite' and load it with games they were home for.

Definitely a good idea and thinks outside the (three) boxes!

Shoe boxes?

Gents in future if you don't want everyone to comment on ideas/suggestions you put forward to improve the lot down at SMFC then please save us all the time and give us the heads up it's a CLIQUE only comment/suggestion thread. Surely you've more important things to do at playtime?

Jeez apparently they are grown men, heaven help us if fan power sweeps them onto the board.

[Drew]

Gents in future if you don't want everyone to comment on ideas/suggestions you put forward to improve the lot down at SMFC then please save us all the time and give us the heads up it's a CLIQUE only comment/suggestion thread. Surely you've more important things to do at playtime?

Jeez apparently they are grown men, heaven help us if fan power sweeps them onto the board.

Gie's peace. Where is the clique? As far as I can tell, I invited everyone to comment on this, and many have helpfully opted to do so (including yourself it has to be said). Poz and myself shared one throwaway post, and it is back to business.

Your mischief making is tedious, and not helpful here.

[Guest somner9]

Gie's peace. Where is the clique? As far as I can tell, I invited everyone to comment on this, and many have helpfully opted to do so (including yourself it has to be said). Poz and myself shared one throwaway post, and it is back to business.

Your mischief making is tedious, and not helpful here.

EVERYONE can read and make their minds up re; your "Throwaway" posts, but if you seriously harbour aspirations to work on behalf of fellow saints fans then I can't see it working out for you if you are set on posting wee snidy/catty remarks. Are you telling me you and your fellow poster's "throwaway" constitutes the actions of adults that want to be representative of all saints fans??? ffs get a grip of yer selfs boys.

[garzo]

great idea drew, i can see it working.

I'd go as far as issuing cards instead of tickets at the window next time.

Then the recipient can register it when they go home if they want to, or if your an older person without access or pc skills just bring it along and have it swiped any time instead of collecting a ticket,

Tickets will then be minimal.

[Drew]

EVERYONE can read and make their minds up re; your "Throwaway" posts, but if you seriously harbour aspirations to work on behalf of fellow saints fans then I can't see it working out for you if you are set on posting wee snidy/catty remarks. Are you telling me you and your fellow poster's "throwaway" constitutes the actions of adults that want to be representative of all saints fans??? ffs get a grip of yer selfs boys.

Harbour aspirations? Where do you get that notion? I have no aspirations to work on anyone's behalf, and your over-reaction to two posts on here is laughable, frankly (what were the snidy remarks exactly?). As it goes, I have you on ignore, but read your posts on here as I was interested to hear what everyone thinks about the proposal. You can safely assume you're back on ignore.

[Rabinho]

Someone on the feeshal' website said that they work offshore and would buy a new 'Smartcard lite' and load it with games they were home for.

Definitely a good idea and thinks outside the (three) boxes!

I'm in a similar scenario.

It's never worth my while to buy a season ticket as my weekends off don't always fall on home games so I'd definitely credit any smart card with games, as I stated earlier in the thread it's also an opportunity to facilitate for the gifting of credits/games as well.

[Drew]

great idea drew, i can see it working.

I'd go as far as issuing cards instead of tickets at the window next time.

Then the recipient can register it when they go home if they want to, or if your an older person without access or pc skills just bring it along and have it swiped any time instead of collecting a ticket,

Tickets will then be minimal.

I can see things moving in that direction, Gary. No reason why not.

I'm in a similar scenario.

It's never worth my while to buy a season ticket as my weekends off don't always fall on home games so I'd definitely credit any smart card with games, as I stated earlier in the thread it's also an opportunity to facilitate for the gifting of credits/games as well.

Absolutely. I like the idea of being able to gift matches in this way. I'm not sure how it would work in practice, but it seesm that the system is quite adaptable.

[Guest somner9]

Harbour aspirations? Where do you get that notion? I have no aspirations to work on anyone's behalf, and your over-reaction to two posts on here is laughable, frankly (what were the snidy remarks exactly?). As it goes, I have you on ignore, but read your posts on here as I was interested to hear what everyone thinks about the proposal. You can safely assume you're back on ignore.

Oh baby i just love me that dirty ol talk..... go you know you wanna big boy

[TsuMirren]

Haven't read the full thread, so apologies if I'm repeating anything here. To keep the other ticketing streams clear of issue, surely the person purchasing and adding the match to their smart card would still need to allocate themselves a seat. I've got Blues Membership for Man City and it is a smart card system, but you still obviously need to actually select a seat.

The system has to be flexible, but it needs to have controls also. Stand specific might, possibly, not be enough, unless the standard ticketing system doesn't offer a seat unless specifically asked...but, then what happens if someone has sat on the seat assigned to someone wanting a particular seat?

[div]

Haven't read the full thread, so apologies if I'm repeating anything here. To keep the other ticketing streams clear of issue, surely the person purchasing and adding the match to their smart card would still need to allocate themselves a seat. I've got Blues Membership for Man City and it is a smart card system, but you still obviously need to actually select a seat.

The system has to be flexible, but it needs to have controls also. Stand specific might, possibly, not be enough, unless the standard ticketing system doesn't offer a seat unless specifically asked...but, then what happens if someone has sat on the seat assigned to someone wanting a particular seat?

There is a whole lotta seats in that post man !

[Drew]

Haven't read the full thread, so apologies if I'm repeating anything here. To keep the other ticketing streams clear of issue, surely the person purchasing and adding the match to their smart card would still need to allocate themselves a seat. I've got Blues Membership for Man City and it is a smart card system, but you still obviously need to actually select a seat.

The system has to be flexible, but it needs to have controls also. Stand specific might, possibly, not be enough, unless the standard ticketing system doesn't offer a seat unless specifically asked...but, then what happens if someone has sat on the seat assigned to someone wanting a particular seat?

It would either be seat specific, or all non-standard ST purchases could be non-specific as Poz has suggested. As I've mentioned earlier, I don't see a big issue with selecting a seat but sitting in another unreserved seat when you arrive on the day. The club are aware that plenty of people do this, and don't have a problem with the practice. There is an assumption that people will give up the seat if someone who has purchased it rolls up looking to sit there. I'm assuming there hasn't been an issue in the past with this or the club wouldn't have this relaxed stance.

I do appreciate that there would be logistics to work though, but if enough people feel that the concept is worth progressing, I'd be confident that the club could find a way round any practical issues.