Booing Your Team, Ffs!

[Drew]

Drew - am I correct in saying that you no longer have a Season Ticket and pick and choose your games? I know you have done this in the past - not sure if this is still valid.

Some supporters have paid their money upfront before the pre-season - perhaps they wish they should have done the same and paid on a game by game basis.

The club asks for Season Ticket holders to renew so that the club can strengthen - I see no real signs of strengthening in some areas that we knew we were weak in last year.

Since those supporters have made that financial commitment they have seen their teams manager use some of that money to pay-off the final year contract of Imrie and Guy and bring in two untried players in Caprice and Bahoken into a system that is not working.

DL has also tried to pay-off Lee Mair and instead has frozen him out completely.

A better solution in my opinion would have been to offer those players out on loan - similar to what happened with Tommy Turner at QoTS. The club will pay part of the players wages - but at least you still have a resource that you could call back in the event of injuries or dare I say it a change of manager.

The pay-off of Imrie and Guy has significiantly reduced DL's ability to strengthen. He has spent a large portion of Season Ticket holders money paying off two experienced players. I'm not suprised people booed yesterday.

DL has lost the plot. He wasted iro £200K on Imrie. I'm feckin pissed off with him. Time for him to go.

You're right, I did give up my ST.

I don't really disagree with much of what you've said above. I still can't imagine why people would think that booing is going to improve things, and make their ST better value for money, but maybe I'm missing something along the way.

To be brutally frank, I also think that Danny has now run out of ideas, and that it is now almost inevitable that he'll move on sooner rather than later. For all that, I genuinely can't see what the point in booing the players off the pitch is, for that is effectively what happened yesterday however people want to dress it up.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Drew

[billyg]

I'm afraid that the booing will not put anyone off coming , as I said it's been happening for decades and will continue , and our crowds are hardly that much different between the early 60s and now with a few exceptions. However , a shite team , playing shite football because of shite tactics is likely to put some off , just like one of these exceptions , a short period in the early 70s when our home average attendance dipped below 1,500 !

Drew , do you think booing was the reason for that dip in attendances , or was it that we were shite at that time ?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Walked out when the second goal went in ,having attended all games thus far I knew there would be no way back. Our lack of fight when going down is very alarming. Anyway stood outside the stadium waiting to be picked I heard the boooos. The fans are entitled to their opinion personally I don't blame the fans for doing anything wrong. If attitudes and organisation don't start changing for on pArk activities we will be relegated make no mistake

[Evil_Panda]

Well, if you reckon the booing is the thing that will bring about the change you (and others) crave, then I've no doubt that you'll continue doing it.

.

Where have a stated that I want change? I have only commented on why people feel they are justified to vent their frustraition through booing.

I'm waiting for the non verbal form of dis-satisfaction through the waving of hankies to catch on.

[Drew]

I'm afraid that the booing will not put anyone off coming , as I said it's been happening for decades and will continue , and our crowds are hardly that much different between the early 60s and now with a few exceptions. However , a shite team , playing shite football because of shite tactics is likely to put some off , just like one of these exceptions , a short period in the early 70s when our home average attendance dipped below 1,500 !

Drew , do you think booing was the reason for that dip in attendances , or was it that we were shite at that time ?

I've not tried to entirely attribute/forecast any drop in attendance to sections of the support booing, and I think you're being a tad mischievous here, Billy.

My main point is that I can't see anything remotely helpful in it, and fear that it could well have a negative impact in several areas - most importantly the confidence and attitude of the players. If this theory is correct, then performances are unlikely to improve, and we will play football that is increasingly shite, and this will, in turn have a knock-on effect on attendances.

Anyway, there is only so many ways I can say what pretty much amounts ot the same thing.

[Drew]

Where have a stated that I want change? I have only commented on why people feel they are justified to vent their frustraition through booing.

Apologies if I misrepresented you. You did, however suggest that booing was a tactic being employed by some in an attempt to influence change (unless I've totally misinterpreted the earlier quoted post).

[Bloomsbury Bud]

Drew, in general I respect much of what you say on this thread and as a contributor to other discussions on this forum. I don't enjoy hearing the booing, I've once (to the best of my recollection) joined in with it in my 40 odd years of going to watch Saints, during a 5 - 1 doing off the Fakes at Paisley in the Davie Hay season.

However, I don't think booing is in itself abusive. Speaking from my own experience I booed not to intimidate players but out of general frustration that what I'd seen was so particularly bad.

I did witness a fan yesterday as the players left the field at full time laying into our players, He shouted so long and so loudly at Conor Newton that CN eventually made eye contact in this fan's direction and was met with 'f&%k off back to Newcastle' I noticed CN simply shook his head and kept going, this same fan then shouted that Goodwin was a 'hopeless cnut' - I'm not making this up. The fan was in the main stand towards the away end in at the front aisle as the teams left, I think this fan was with his son.

I'd argue the booing is a protest, not necessarily abuse.

The shouting directed yesterday at players by the fan I saw was, in my opinion, abusive. I've noticed other contributors, to this thread, say they heard similar remarks made to Caprice and Cornell; they sound like abuse, too.

I summary, I've no problem with protesting (I don't join in with it myself), however the abuse aimed at our players is pathetic and I share your point that'll do the players and situation no good whatsover.

[oaksoft]

My point was that the booing won't help in terms of the potential for people to stay away either. Maybe we're at cross-purposes here.

Fair play to you Drew but I think we're fighting a losing battle here TBH.

We can be pretty sure of one thing though.

The same people who are booing our team would be the last to tolerate being treated that way at their own work.

I think it's a shame that the people booing simply have no idea what it's like to have to perform under that pressure.

Freedom of speech wins the day and I've run out of things to say to persuade people of the impact this is having so I'll leave it to you.

[Drew]

Fair play to you Drew but I think we're fighting a losing battle here TBH.

We can be pretty sure of one thing though.

The same people who are booing our team would be the last to tolerate being treated that way at their own work.

I think it's a shame that the people booing simply have no idea what it's like to have to perform under that pressure.

Freedom of speech wins the day and I've run out of things to say to persuade people of the impact this is having so I'll leave it to you.

Nah, I'm done too.

As I said above, there is only so many ways I can say the same thing. I'm beginning to bore myself now.

It was always likely to be a debate that would polarise opinion. To be honest, I can't remember many (any?) occasions when someone has genuinely conceded ground in a debate/argument on here. Fair enough, I don't know that I have, if I'm being honest.

I don't expect people to come round to my way of thinking, but it has certainly been interesting reading people seek to explain/justify the booing yesterday, and the discussion was probably worth having if ultimately a bit futile for all that.

Div posted a thread having chatted to a player the other day. I'd be very interested if anyone is in a position to get a player's perspective on the booing issue. I've said my piece, though, and devoted enough of my weekend to it, so probably best to move on now.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Drew

[Lanarkshire_Bud]

For the most part, the majority were behind the team for 90 minutes. If we feel we are being let down then I have no problem with fans letting their feelings known at full time.

On another note, one guy sitting a couple seats from me made several comments about Bahoken "just coming aff the boat", absolute disgrace.

[Leicester Saint]

I think as well that the booing at full time is really to let the board and the manager know that what we are seeing is not acceptable.

They know that, of course they do, but the level it got to yesterday tells them how many are pissed off, and it was the loudest I can remember in a long time.

The board aren't daft, they will do whatever they think is in the best longer term interests of the football club.

Or themselves.

[Evil_Panda]

For the most part, the majority were behind the team for 90 minutes. If we feel we are being let down then I have no problem with fans letting their feelings known at full time.

On another note, one guy sitting a couple seats from me made several comments about Bahoken "just coming aff the boat", absolute disgrace.

As long as racism is tolerated and remains unchallenged it will not go away. This fanny should be reported to the club so he can be monitored by the stewards in future matches.

[saints0]

I seldom start threads, and I slept on this before deciding to post it, but feel it had to be done.

The booing at HT and FT yesterday was a fucking embarrassment.

We had two players making their home debuts yesterday, and what a welcome they were given. Particularly grim, though, was to watch Cornell, Newton and a few forlorn others actually applauding the stands at the end to a chorus of booing. It was sickening.

Now, before anyone jumps in with the line that they've paid their money, and have a right to express how they feel, or the other old favourite about it being down to how passionate they feel about the club, blah....blah...blah, I'm simply stating my opinion on this matter.

If anyone actually believes that anything positive will be achieved by booing you own team off the park, then they need to have a long hard look at themselves. You don't have to be a psychologist to work it out. If the players and manager are already feeling the pressure and something is amiss at the club, then being subjected to this sort of teatment is going to achieve nothing good.

Whether you blame the manager, the players, or the BoD, all they will have heard collectively is booing. Indiscriminate booing. It is moronic.

To be honest, I reckon this type of behaviour is more likely to put people off coming along to SMP to take in a match than what is happening on the pitch. It has certainly made me glad for the international break.

Fans booing poor performances at football matches have been around as long as football,its been part of the supporters arsenal ,along with applauding good performances and effort.It also happens at Man Utd,Real Madrid and Bayern Munich , and they watch a fantastic product week in week out .Another pathetic attempt to sully the good name of our fantastic supporters who backed the team to the hilt yesterday

[saints0]

I seldom start threads, and I slept on this before deciding to post it, but feel it had to be done.

The booing at HT and FT yesterday was a fucking embarrassment.

We had two players making their home debuts yesterday, and what a welcome they were given. Particularly grim, though, was to watch Cornell, Newton and a few forlorn others actually applauding the stands at the end to a chorus of booing. It was sickening.

Now, before anyone jumps in with the line that they've paid their money, and have a right to express how they feel, or the other old favourite about it being down to how passionate they feel about the club, blah....blah...blah, I'm simply stating my opinion on this matter.

If anyone actually believes that anything positive will be achieved by booing you own team off the park, then they need to have a long hard look at themselves. You don't have to be a psychologist to work it out. If the players and manager are already feeling the pressure and something is amiss at the club, then being subjected to this sort of teatment is going to achieve nothing good.

Whether you blame the manager, the players, or the BoD, all they will have heard collectively is booing. Indiscriminate booing. It is moronic.

To be honest, I reckon this type of behaviour is more likely to put people off coming along to SMP to take in a match than what is happening on the pitch. It has certainly made me glad for the international break.

That is two valid comments you have posted on this thread Div, except maybe the booing should be directed towards the players as well. On a side note there was one idiot behind me somewhere who booed when Cornell's name was announced before the game started.

Thats why i GO to football in all honesty,you cant pay enough for madness like that,comedy gold , i would put that in the same category as applauding the opposition attendance being announced

[saints0]

Its the pervasive negativity, and the booing simply feeds into and perpetuates that. That WILL put people off.

Believe me, it is putting me off.

Well do something about it then,rather than boring us rigid

[div]

We are getting our knickers in a twist over nothing here IMHO.

Take any club in the country, playing at home, who haven't won at home in 7 months, who have taken 1 point from their first 4 league games, who have been dumped out the cup in the first round and who have just managed to go from a winning position to losing within the last ten minutes, and they and their manager will be booed off the park.

Every single club in the country bar none.

[Drew]

We are getting our knickers in a twist over nothing here IMHO.

Take any club in the country, playing at home, who haven't won at home in 7 months, who have taken 1 point from their first 4 league games, who have been dumped out the cup in the first round and who have just managed to go from a winning position to losing within the last ten minutes, and they and their manager will be booed off the park.

Every single club in the country bar none.

They were also booed at half time.

Anyway, I've said my piece.

[div]

Didn't hear any booing at half time bud.

[saint in exile]

If you pay money for services or entertainment and feel you are not getting your monies worth do you not have the right to voice your dissatisfaction?

People have been cheering and booing at the football since its inception, kill that passion and we might as well play behind closed doors and watch it on the tv.

If you go to the pictures and the 'star' isn't giving an Oscar winning performance, do you stand up and shout "you're f*cking shite, you!" or do you just leave at the end and tell people not to waste their money going to see it?

[Drew]

Didn't hear any booing at half time bud.

Seriously?

[Lanarkshire_Bud]

Seriously?

Thistle fans booed at half time because they never got a phantom penalty, that was all I heard.

[windae cleaner]

If you go to the pictures and the 'star' isn't giving an Oscar winning performance, do you stand up and shout "you're f*cking shite, you!" or do you just leave at the end and tell people not to waste their money going to see it?

I wouldn't know,never been to the pictures with an Oscar winning star in attendance

[Evil_Panda]

If you go to the pictures and the 'star' isn't giving an Oscar winning performance, do you stand up and shout "you're f*cking shite, you!" or do you just leave at the end and tell people not to waste their money going to see it?

Fantastic analogy mate, is your name Gus McPherson?

[saints0]

If you go to the pictures and the 'star' isn't giving an Oscar winning performance, do you stand up and shout "you're f*cking shite, you!" or do you just leave at the end and tell people not to waste their money going to see it?

depends what mood im in

[DLBud]

Fair play to you Drew but I think we're fighting a losing battle here TBH.

We can be pretty sure of one thing though.

The same people who are booing our team would be the last to tolerate being treated that way at their own work.

I think it's a shame that the people booing simply have no idea what it's like to have to perform under that pressure.

Freedom of speech wins the day and I've run out of things to say to persuade people of the impact this is having so I'll leave it to you.

Do you know what Oaky, you don't half spout a lot of rubbish at times and posit your own views as if they have some basis in fact. Point in case? "People booing have no idea what it's like to perform under that pressure". You have absolutely no idea what these guys do for a living or what pressure they're under so give it a rest.

For the record, the abuse meted out to some of the players by a completely moronic minority yesterday was out of order, however, a good, healthy dose of booing at the final whistle was completely understandable and I'm not sure any of the players would have taken umbrage with that.

Drew, I always find your posts to be reasonable and you are always respectful of others views so I'll simply say I don't agree with you on this one and leave it at that.