Arquin Red

[Langbank]

Got to feel for them. Team pan breid'. New team about to get pumped in the first ever meeting between Celtic and Rangers (2012), Hearts shitting on them - and then you inflict the unimaginable horror upon them that masquerades under the name 'St Mirren home league match'?

Haven't they sufferered enough? Some mate you are!

Lol I gave him the choice.... I even tried to talk him out of it. I pleaded with his wife to take him on an afternoon out to the museum or to go for a walk along the esplanade in Greenock but no he wanted to come to see a big team so hell mend him.

[Dare]

Looked like he just lost his balance and simply fell over ...... never a pen or a booking

[Spam_Valley]

This is absolute nonsense. Paranoia that Celtic supporters would be proud of.

Shit happens, refs are absolute dog shite at times but to suggest anyone at the SFA has an agenda towards St.Mirren is embarrassing.

Get a grip.

[Bart Simpson]

This is absolute nonsense. Paranoia that Celtic supporters would be proud of.

Shit happens, refs are absolute dog shite at times but to suggest anyone at the SFA has an agenda towards St.Mirren is embarrassing.

Get a grip.

Agree completely.

Certainly would voice questions over a number of decisions but not because of an agenda against us, simply because they seemed to be questionable and at times inconsistent.

I don't think it is wrong for the club to ask questions, but to suggest an agenda is too far in my opinion.

[alanb]

Looked to me that Arquin stubbed his toe when attempting to shoot, fell over and sat waiting on the referee to make a penalty call, the rest is history. He should have got up right away in case the ball came back his way, instead made it easy for the ref to get one back for Thursday.

Bad as the ref was, our attempts on goal were far worse and as far as other results went, tenth place is still up for grabs. Oh for a little faith...we can but hope

[Kendo]

Let's put it this way.

Had I been the referee.

Harkins straight red

2 penalties for us.

Their equaliser would have been chopped off.

Arquin wouldn't have been booked.

Hartley would have been sent to the stand for protesting.

Me for ref.

ETA make that 3 penalties "forgot about the handball in the first half.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Kendo

[another alias]

I didn't think it was a dive.

My initial thought was that he'd simply made an arse of it.

[pappas cheese]

it looked like he fell over rather than dived, but the second yellow wasn't far away for him. he was putting in some lazy tackles at that point. teale should have hooked him before the second yellow.

[kevo_smfc]

I think he fell over rather than simulating looking for a pen.

[Callum Gilhooley]

the more i see it the more i`m convinced he should never have been sent off. If the first is a yellow , wtf happened with harkins & the second he simply made a James hunt of it. (or mcfake steps on his toe)

[Dirty Sanchez]

The thing with bookings for simulation is that they are so random. The vast majority of cases don't result in a card, even when everyone and their dog knows that a dive has taken place. Diving is depressingly widespread, and goes on in every game, yet it's a rarity to see a booking for it.

Even just with that in mind, it's a poor show for a ref to hand out a card that he knows is going to result in an ordering off, for an offence that almost always goes unpunished. Even more so when he's just guessing whether the offence actually took place, or not.

This is meant to be entertainment, and the game would benefit if referees took more responsibility not to ruin matches by making theatrical, game changing, decisions that frankly don't need to be made. If you are about to blow your whistle to make a call that is quite clearly going to influence the outcome of the match, I think you need to ask carefully whether the offence merits the whole course of the game being changed by the referee, or whether it would be better just to let the teams sort the result out between themselves. Pragmatism over dogmatism.

I don’t mean refs should be hiding when big calls are there to be made. Just don’t be going out of your way to find big calls to make, when there aren’t any to be made. This, of course, applies to both of Arquin’s red cards, where neither incident would have been a post-match talking point had play been waved on, and cards not been flashed.

The random nature of officiating in football is embarrassingly primitive compared with other sports, and I could go at (more) length as to why, much of which is down to system rather than the officials themselves.

I watch the NFL, where it’s an absolute rarity for a game to be won or lost on the back of an incorrect refereeing call, and it when it does happen, the shit really hits the fan. It happens all the time in football, and we’re expected to just accept it. This haphazard, guesswork officiating is one of the many reasons why I find my interest in football waning, and it really doesn't need to be like this.

[donport]

I thought Harkins tackle was worse than any saints tackles but nothing from ref the inconsistency is terrible !

I think the club are correct to ask SFA why we are being punished every week by very poor officials?.... look we know it is

tough sometimes and things usually even out etc but this has become a joke!

[oaksoft]

Blatant, embarassing and pathetic dive. It's hilarious to see so many people trying to defend it.

Stamped on by McPake? Aye right

Harkins tackle and Arquins tackle appeared to be very similar so not sure why one got a yellow and the other didn't but other than that all the penalty decisions which didn't go our way were correct as well.

I'm afraid we have to accept that we weren't good enough on Saturday.

I particularly hope we don't seek a meeting with the SFA FFS.

[saintnextlifetime]

The thing with bookings for simulation is that they are so random. The vast majority of cases don't result in a card, even when everyone and their dog knows that a dive has taken place. Diving is depressingly widespread, and goes on in every game, yet it's a rarity to see a booking for it.

Even just with that in mind, it's a poor show for a ref to hand out a card that he knows is going to result in an ordering off, for an offence that almost always goes unpunished. Even more so when he's just guessing whether the offence actually took place, or not.

This is meant to be entertainment, and the game would benefit if referees took more responsibility not to ruin matches by making theatrical, game changing, decisions that frankly don't need to be made. If you are about to blow your whistle to make a call that is quite clearly going to influence the outcome of the match, I think you need to ask carefully whether the offence merits the whole course of the game being changed by the referee, or whether it would be better just to let the teams sort the result out between themselves. Pragmatism over dogmatism.

I don’t mean refs should be hiding when big calls are there to be made. Just don’t be going out of your way to find big calls to make, when there aren’t any to be made. This, of course, applies to both of Arquin’s red cards, where neither incident would have been a post-match talking point had play been waved on, and cards not been flashed.

The random nature of officiating in football is embarrassingly primitive compared with other sports, and I could go at (more) length as to why, much of which is down to system rather than the officials themselves.

I watch the NFL, where it’s an absolute rarity for a game to be won or lost on the back of an incorrect refereeing call, and it when it does happen, the shit really hits the fan. It happens all the time in football, and we’re expected to just accept it. This haphazard, guesswork officiating is one of the many reasons why I find my interest in football waning, and it really doesn't need to be like this.

There is an old saying that , "if you pay peanuts , you get monkeys". .

The ref's are not paid peanuts but. .

[saintnextlifetime]

He might spend all his wages on peanuts.

Maybe they put peanuts in the ref's dressing room . .

. .or maybe they should. .

[Magic Monkey]

Can't see any contact. I think he genuinely tripped and stumbled, and instead of landing on his knees and staying on the park, he decided to chance his arm and hurled himself to the floor.

Stupid, rash thing to do.

I've seen worse, though, and I suspect if he'd managed to stay on his feet, he would have got the shot away. I think he fluffed his lines and tried to get the most out of it.

Not defending him, but I'm certainly not wanting him to be chased out the club like some folk on here.

[Griff]

Can't see any contact. I think he genuinely tripped and stumbled, and instead of landing on his knees and staying on the park, he decided to chance his arm and hurled himself to the floor.

Stupid, rash thing to do.

I've seen worse, though, and I suspect if he'd managed to stay on his feet, he would have got the shot away. I think he fluffed his lines and tried to get the most out of it.

Not defending him, but I'm certainly not wanting him to be chased out the club like some folk on here.

Comparable with the second penalty Killie got against us , Ref couldn,t get his card out quick enough and ensure a sending off though

[Mid Calder Saint]

Well I am defending him to the absolute hilt.First booking right on front of me a purely nothing tackle his foot not even off the ground.The second one ref couldn't get red out fast enough.How can the ref be 100% certain.Then you look at Tannadice on Saturday when the ref missed two stonewall pens.Surely in that case if the ref thinks he is being conned then the Well players are cautioned.Talk about consistency.

[Drew]

The reality is that we lost the game on account of our failure to convert several very good chances. That doesn't make the piss-poor officiating any easier to stomach, however.

[Magic Monkey]

The idea that a tackle is either a penalty or a dive is a massive fallacy. They are frequently neither.

[Drew]

The idea that a tackle is either a penalty or a dive is a massive fallacy. They are frequently neither.

Correct.

At the time, I didn't think it was a dive, but certainly wasn't calling for a penalty.

Said at the time, and still believe it to be true - he was leg weary, ran out of steam, stumbled and went to ground.

[WirralSaint]

Here's the 2 frames of 'no contact' on Arquin's boot which didn't put him off balance causing him to fresh air his attempt to pull the ball back into his stride

...and the 'no contact' from behind

For all real lovers of no contact here's Dundee's defender prior to that making absolutely no contact with a passed ball along the 6 yard box as he hauls down Arquin.

Referee clearly unsighted from his position

[Edinbuddie]

100% DIVE

Hmmm a very definite appraisal.

I'm always amazed at the vehemence of the arguments put up against our own players at times. His first booking was questionable, his second was as well. I viewed it as more of a stumble at the time.

So we've had a player sent off for two questionable bookings the week after he's had a red card overturned. May be a coincidence, there may be nothing in it, and I doubt that there's a SFA conspiracy against us, but we seem to be on the wrong end of a number of contentious decisions over the past few weeks. I think that tends to happen to teams at the wrong end of the league, but, given the number of red cards and overturned decisions we've had recently, I wouldn't be surprised if it's been a topic of discussion amongst the 'elite' refereeing fraternity.

If we are 'turning into Celtic' due to paranoia about the officials, I think the officials have provided plenty of ammunition over the past month or so.

[WirralSaint]

Also very difficult when you don't have the best view to see a Harkins 2 footed lunge early on....oh no there he is...top left in the yellow that's him isn't it

To be fair our lad hasn't helped the referee out by signalling what a terrible tackle it was by hurling himself 3 feet in the air and having a roll around. (ground slapping optional)

The correct technique was shown later at Arquin's first yellow...tremendous elevation on that leap into the air which as all referees know is of course the natural reaction to having being fouled...not carrying on trying to reach the ball and looking a bit of a clown slipping as you're unbalanced. Leap and Yelp....Leap and Yelp...that's the way to show you've been fouled.

Edited January 26, 2015 by WirralSaint

[Stuart Dickson]

I think that tends to happen to teams at the wrong end of the league

Nope. Referees make calls. They'll get most right and some wrong in every match. They are only human after all. Where he difference comes between good sides and struggling sides is that a good side will generally go on to win the match anyway, whereas the likes of St Mirren and Motherwell will lose and instead of blaming their own playing squad and manager for the poor performances it becomes much easier to have a go at the ref.

I only watched the BBC highlights but it was clear Gary Teale got the key decisions wrong. The Dundee goal was absolutely onside and St Mirren should not have had a penalty. Perhaps Teale should be gratious enough to admit the match officials got it more right than he did.