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Bring jim, thommo,mallan back and let's get the win on Friday

Play them from the off tomortow night in Annan and lets get everyones heads up for Friday..!

I didn't want Murray, didnt rate him at all. However he now has an opportunity to show if he can learn quickly from his mistakes, albeit in part down to Naismith's injury. Lets see a more competitive side on the pitch in Annan and take it from there.

Edited by Lord Pityme
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The biggest disappointment for me on Saturday was not that we got beat but the formation and personnel used. This season is up and running NOW. This is no longer a practise for things to come. We can only focus on this season as most of the players will be away next season so we cannot build for the future. No time left to experiment - get a the best team on the park every week. And for that we need the very few experienced players we have including Jim.

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On the question of Mallan, where does he play?

He's not going to replace Agnew and if he plays in a midfield 3 then its 1 up front.

He can't get a game, surely. He doesn't have vast experience nor a lot of physical stregth.

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The biggest disappointment for me on Saturday was not that we got beat but the formation and personnel used. This season is up and running NOW. This is no longer a practise for things to come. We can only focus on this season as most of the players will be away next season so we cannot build for the future. No time left to experiment - get a the best team on the park every week. And for that we need the very few experienced players we have including Jim.

How can Murray be expected to know what his best side is until he has tried a few different line-ups in competitive matches? I wouldn't class that as experimentation or practice. It is part of the process of adapting and getting the best fit. I'd be very surprised if many managers would claim to know their best line-up on day one of a season. They might have what they think is their best line-up in mind, but any number of factors can influence how it plays out when the action gets under way proper.

For example, Thompson was poor against Rangers. That was due, in part, to how he was utilised, but even taking that into account, his touch was poor, he was well off the pace, and couldn't impose himself on the game at all. I fully supported the decision to drop him for Saturday. Murray gave Gow a run-out, and he was anonymous. Hopefully he won't start again any time soon. All part of the learning process, and typical of early season games I would have thought. Murray has a decision to make regarding his front line. He will have countless others to make throughout the season.

Sorry, but the idea that the manager should have known and started with his 'best' line up is simplistic and unrealistic. The measure of the man will be how effectively - and how quickly - he learns from his mistakes, not whether he has made any in the first place.

Edited by Drew
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How can Murray be expected to know what his best side is until he has tried a few different line-ups in competitive matches? I wouldn't class that as experimentation or practice. It is part of the process of adapting and getting the best fit. I'd be very surprised if many managers would claim to know their best line-up on day one of a season. They might have what they think is their best line-up in mind, but any number of factors can influence how it plays out when the action gets under way proper.

For example, Thompson was poor against Rangers. That was, in part, to how he was utilised, but even taking that into account, his touch was poor, he was well off the pace, and couldn't impose himself on the game at all. I fully supported the decision to drop him for Saturday. Murray gave Gow a run-out, and he was anonymous. Hopefully he won't start again any time soon. All part of the learning process, and typical of early season games I would have thought. Murray has a decision to make regarding his front line. He will have countless others to make throughout the season.

Sorry, but the idea that the manager should have known and started with his 'best' line up is simplistic and unrealistic. The measure of the man will be how effectively - and how quickly - he learns form his mistakes, not whether he has made any in the first place.

Spot on. Even from the Rangers match to the Dumbarton match there were three changes and a change in formation. All very well bringing in players, but nobody knows - especially at this level - how they are going to fit in, how they're going to perform.

I saw a post earlier complaining about us not having a full squad in yet. I prefer this to getting a full squad in, but of players you rushed to get in for the start of the season rather than players you'd waited for because they were of higher quality. Better to have the squad lacking for a few weeks than rush and have it lacking for a full season, as we've done in recent seasons.

On Gow, I agree he was back to the way he was when he first came in February, but would say that he did improve with a few games under his belt, and had started to impress to a degree when he was injured against Motherwell. If he does get another go, I'd expect an improvement in his play as he'd probably be a bit fitter an sharper.

It's good to have a few options. If we can get Shankland in as well, we'd have pretty decent options up front.

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How can Murray be expected to know what his best side is until he has tried a few different line-ups in competitive matches? I wouldn't class that as experimentation or practice. It is part of the process of adapting and getting the best fit. I'd be very surprised if many managers would claim to know their best line-up on day one of a season. They might have what they think is their best line-up in mind, but any number of factors can influence how it plays out when the action gets under way proper.

For example, Thompson was poor against Rangers. That was due, in part, to how he was utilised, but even taking that into account, his touch was poor, he was well off the pace, and couldn't impose himself on the game at all. I fully supported the decision to drop him for Saturday. Murray gave Gow a run-out, and he was anonymous. Hopefully he won't start again any time soon. All part of the learning process, and typical of early season games I would have thought. Murray has a decision to make regarding his front line. He will have countless others to make throughout the season.

Sorry, but the idea that the manager should have known and started with his 'best' line up is simplistic and unrealistic. The measure of the man will be how effectively - and how quickly - he learns from his mistakes, not whether he has made any in the first place.

I get that Drew. I realise that it will take a wee bit of tinkering but we do not have until Christmas to sort out what works. I am pointing out we only have this season as next season we start it all over again. We desperately lack experience in the team in crucial positions and until we get better players for these positions we should use what we have assuming we are aiming for the play-offs. I was genuinely surprised on Saturday at the formation and personnel. It did not work so hopefully it will not be repeated.

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I get that Drew. I realise that it will take a wee bit of tinkering but we do not have until Christmas to sort out what works. I am pointing out we only have this season as next season we start it all over again. We desperately lack experience in the team in crucial positions and until we get better players for these positions we should use what we have assuming we are aiming for the play-offs. I was genuinely surprised on Saturday at the formation and personnel. It did not work so hopefully it will not be repeated.

The problem is, where do we get that experience from. We either sign experienced journey men and hope they do us a turn, or bite the bullet and accept that the only way the youngsters will gain experience is by playing them.

I appreciate that we need a blend of youth and experience. I'm just not convinced that Goodwin is the answer (ie - the player this thread is about).

I don't claim to have the answers, or a blueprint for success. I just think we need to trust Murray to work through things before getting on his back. I don't think we are too far away from having a good team that can compete, but I think bringing in a few more new faces and giving them time to settle might be the better option than relying too heavily on Goodwin and Thompson.

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It's crunch time now - I'm sure IM would like to see the back of Goodwin (probably our highest earner) but it's seldom that simple to get rid of a senior player like Goodwin which will, again probably, require us to sweeten the deal.

Perhaps my memory isn't as sharp as it used to be but my recollection is that both of our recent Div. 1 winning squads (99/00 & 05/06) contained more experienced players than youngsters.

Edited by Bud the Baker
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There is no question Goodwin should have been brought on even to the extent of holding on for a draw.It was evident to everyone we required his experience as the youngsters were being bossed about.Time to sort it Murray.

Or what?

Sack him?

Lol

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The problem is, where do we get that experience from. We either sign experienced journey men and hope they do us a turn, or bite the bullet and accept that the only way the youngsters will gain experience is by playing them.

I appreciate that we need a blend of youth and experience. I'm just not convinced that Goodwin is the answer (ie - the player this thread is about).

I don't claim to have the answers, or a blueprint for success. I just think we need to trust Murray to work through things before getting on his back. I don't think we are too far away from having a good team that can compete, but I think bringing in a few more new faces and giving them time to settle might be the better option than relying too heavily on Goodwin and Thompson.

Whatever your opinion is, what is the sense in casting aside the only tool in your box that can do the job today...?

When other posters bang on about "i'd rather we waited to find the right players than rush in and regret it".... What now seems likely given one or two more negative results is Murray will persuade the BoD to rush in last minute and take another risky signing on, and they will back it because they picked Murray and will feel obliged to try and dig him out of a hole.

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The problem is, where do we get that experience from. We either sign experienced journey men and hope they do us a turn, or bite the bullet and accept that the only way the youngsters will gain experience is by playing them.

I appreciate that we need a blend of youth and experience. I'm just not convinced that Goodwin is the answer (ie - the player this thread is about).

I don't claim to have the answers, or a blueprint for success. I just think we need to trust Murray to work through things before getting on his back. I don't think we are too far away from having a good team that can compete, but I think bringing in a few more new faces and giving them time to settle might be the better option than relying too heavily on Goodwin and Thompson.

Goodwin may not be the answer but at the moment its all that we have. I would not like to think that the team is deprived because it has become a personal issue. I am not saying do not sign any other experienced players just play the ones that we have on our books today until that situation changes.

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Spot on. Even from the Rangers match to the Dumbarton match there were three changes and a change in formation. All very well bringing in players, but nobody knows - especially at this level - how they are going to fit in, how they're going to perform.

I saw a post earlier complaining about us not having a full squad in yet. I prefer this to getting a full squad in, but of players you rushed to get in for the start of the season rather than players you'd waited for because they were of higher quality. Better to have the squad lacking for a few weeks than rush and have it lacking for a full season, as we've done in recent seasons.

On Gow, I agree he was back to the way he was when he first came in February, but would say that he did improve with a few games under his belt, and had started to impress to a degree when he was injured against Motherwell. If he does get another go, I'd expect an improvement in his play as he'd probably be a bit fitter an sharper.

It's good to have a few options. If we can get Shankland in as well, we'd have pretty decent options up front.

Sorry but one way to know how players will perform at this level is to try and sign up some of the decent out of contract players in the division over the summer and a few journeymen. When Murray took over he said we had a young squad and would need to sign a few senior pros to help the existing younger players. The one player he has signed who has performed in the division regularly is Agnew, making the step up from part time to full time. Other than we have taken a punt on most of our U20 side being able and ready to make the step up to first team football. He had one senior pro under contract and Murray has so far decided not to play him, but has resigned a 36 year old striker and Alan Gow, and signed Langield. Other than that our other signings have all been punts on other teams' U20 players making the step up from development team football to championship level first team football.

There are more than 2 options to handle the transfer window: it doesn't have to be a straight choice between signing a full squad of duds early doors or waiting until the last minute. At the minute we are a few games into the league season and have only 5 defenders on the books, one of whom, Goodwin, appears to be destined for bench warming duties but no action on the pitch and Naismith now has a knee injury. Approaching the 3rd league game of the season we have 3 fit defenders at the club. Dumbarton were left with only 3 players contracted for this season when Murray moved to us in the summer. Aitken seems to have done a decent job at rebuilding their squad with seasoned pros, on a smaller budget as 1 of only 2 part time teams in the league and his 9 new signings in their starting XI seem to have gelled OK and look like they know what they are doing in their first two league games.

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Sorry but one way to know how players will perform at this level is to try and sign up some of the decent out of contract players in the division over the summer and a few journeymen. When Murray took over he said we had a young squad and would need to sign a few senior pros to help the existing younger players. The one player he has signed who has performed in the division regularly is Agnew, making the step up from part time to full time. Other than we have taken a punt on most of our U20 side being able and ready to make the step up to first team football. He had one senior pro under contract and Murray has so far decided not to play him, but has resigned a 36 year old striker and Alan Gow, and signed Langield. Other than that our other signings have all been punts on other teams' U20 players making the step up from development team football to championship level first team football.

There are more than 2 options to handle the transfer window: it doesn't have to be a straight choice between signing a full squad of duds early doors or waiting until the last minute. At the minute we are a few games into the league season and have only 5 defenders on the books, one of whom, Goodwin, appears to be destined for bench warming duties but no action on the pitch and Naismith now has a knee injury. Approaching the 3rd league game of the season we have 3 fit defenders at the club. Dumbarton were left with only 3 players contracted for this season when Murray moved to us in the summer. Aitken seems to have done a decent job at rebuilding their squad with seasoned pros, on a smaller budget as 1 of only 2 part time teams in the league and his 9 new signings in their starting XI seem to have gelled OK and look like they know what they are doing in their first two league games.

This..!

No more excuses, if the mighty Dumbarton can do it why not us..? Wasn't Murray's astonshing level of success there the main reason so many on here wanted him, and why the BoD signed him..?

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