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Nathan Flanagan


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31 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Dearie me TopCat he is out on loan to get first team experience which takes me back to my first post regarding us having a fantastic midfield.

Well quite, whereas younger players than him are getting their first team experience here.  Not many players make it at full time level if they haven't had some kind of impact in it by their 20th birthday.   Maybe Nathan will be one of the exceptions, but probably not.

If we do go down to league 1 he will certainly be worth keeping.  If not I hope we either keep what we have or get in more established players.

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30 minutes ago, TopCat said:

Well quite, whereas younger players than him are getting their first team experience here.  Not many players make it at full time level if they haven't had some kind of impact in it by their 20th birthday.   Maybe Nathan will be one of the exceptions, but probably not.

If we do go down to league 1 he will certainly be worth keeping.  If not I hope we either keep what we have or get in more established players.

Mark Yardley was older before getting into professional football / Frank McAveney was late getting into professional football. Do you see where I am coming from. Where is all this negative stuff come from mate it seems to have started site Jack Ross took over. I get criticism when it's constructive your not. What's happened to you. ? 

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Just now, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Mark Yardley was older before getting into professional football / Frank McAveney was late getting into professional football. Do you see where I am coming from. Where is all this negative stuff come from mate it seems to have started since  Jack Ross took over. I get criticism when it's constructive your not. What's happened to you. ? 

 

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6 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Mark Yardley was older before getting into professional football / Frank McAveney was late getting into professional football. Do you see where I am coming from. Where is all this negative stuff come from mate it seems to have started site Jack Ross took over. I get criticism when it's constructive your not. What's happened to you. ? 

There's clearly exceptions to the rule.  But the fact is the vast majority of professional full time footballers had played full time football at a decent level in their teenage years.  Guys like Magennis, Morgan and Mallan being examples of this.  If JR thought Nathan was as good as these guys who are in his age group, he'd still be here.   Sorry if these facts too negative for you bud, its a tough old game.

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4 minutes ago, TopCat said:

There's clearly exceptions to the rule.  But the fact is the vast majority of professional full time footballers had played full time football at a decent level in their teenage years.  Guys like Magennis, Morgan and Mallan being examples of this.  If JR thought Nathan was as good as these guys who are in his age group, he'd still be here.   Sorry if these facts too negative for you bud, its a tough old game.

Who has said Nathan is better than what we currently have. No one has ? What is being said the boy won young player of the year in his division. The fans of Annan are raving about him. That points to a successful loan spell which can only be good for St Mirren surly 

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You usually find that the parent club of a player out on loan, send them out on loan to see them develop and get game time at first team level rather than U20s. He is currently playing at a better level just now than that of his u20s colleagues at St Mirren. The club may well judge this summer if he is good enough to keep or release, though on the basis of his recent award it would be difficult to say he isn't good enough. Josh Todd was playing at that level last season remember, even though he is a couple of years older than Nathan.

He may well find himself closer to the first team next season, even more so if we struggle to hold on to Lewis Morgan.

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4 hours ago, TopCat said:

There's clearly exceptions to the rule.  But the fact is the vast majority of professional full time footballers had played full time football at a decent level in their teenage years.  Guys like Magennis, Morgan and Mallan being examples of this.  If JR thought Nathan was as good as these guys who are in his age group, he'd still be here.   Sorry if these facts too negative for you bud, its a tough old game.

Might be a case to see what his attitude is

A case of sink or swim

He is swimming at the moment

I remember a certain Kenny McLean sent to Smokieland by your beloved Gus

How did that work out

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6 hours ago, TopCat said:

He was brought to St Mirren cause Ross knows the boy from Hearts?

He signed for us by Alex Rae, 9 months before JR arrived!  :lol: 

More likely signed by David Longwell or one of the other youth academy coaches.

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20 minutes ago, windae cleaner said:

Might be a case to see what his attitude is

A case of sink or swim

He is swimming at the moment

I remember a certain Kenny McLean sent to Smokieland by your beloved Gus

How did that work out

I have no problem with anyone being sent out on loan.

Kenny McLean's a fine example of the loan system working.  He went on loan to Arbroath when he was 17/18.  Then he came back to us and became established in the team and playing full time football regularly.  He scored his first SPL goal when he was 19 in a 1-0 win at McDiarmid Park.

Nathan is 20, and that's the difference.

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6 minutes ago, TopCat said:

I have no problem with anyone being sent out on loan.

Kenny McLean's a fine example of the loan system working.  He went on loan to Arbroath when he was 17/18.  Then he came back to us and became established in the team and playing full time football regularly.  He scored his first SPL goal when he was 19 in a 1-0 win at McDiarmid Park.

Nathan is 20, and that's the difference.

People develop at different ages so his age shouldn't matter

The boy has came on given his rave reviews

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14 minutes ago, Drew said:

How to make a negative out of a positive, eh?

Dearie me....

Still highly amusing to see his spectacular dummy spitting about Gus not being appointed continues unabated.

Gus' chief boaby sooker indeed.

Even if events went our way and we're top of the league next season, with one game to go, he'd still not admit he's behaved like a 5 year old who didn't get their favourite toy.:lol:

 

Edited by FTOF
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13 minutes ago, TopCat said:

I have no problem with anyone being sent out on loan.

Kenny McLean's a fine example of the loan system working.  He went on loan to Arbroath when he was 17/18.  Then he came back to us and became established in the team and playing full time football regularly.  He scored his first SPL goal when he was 19 in a 1-0 win at McDiarmid Park.

Nathan is 20, and that's the difference.

I really feckin' hate this amateurish, definitive impression of player's development. What works for one doesn't work for all. The age a player develops is not finite. The very fact we have a change of coach when it was the previous one brought you to the club can stunt their development and JR might have seen this and did the sensible thing. Have you actually even seen this lad play? Do you have a diploma in sport's science or sport's psychology?

You need to take a good hard look at yourself and why you find the need to vent what might be some sort of over the top vendetta bordering on "Dicksonsom".

Gus will NEVER return. Get over it.

Edited by stlucifer
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5 hours ago, TopCat said:

There's clearly exceptions to the rule.  But the fact is the vast majority of professional full time footballers had played full time football at a decent level in their teenage years.  Guys like Magennis, Morgan and Mallan being examples of this.  If JR thought Nathan was as good as these guys who are in his age group, he'd still be here.   Sorry if these facts too negative for you bud, its a tough old game.

Don't entirely agree. The point comes where the player has to decide if playing senior level is a better financial deal then going to Juniors and playing part time. A lot of players don't have the motivation to keep going and earn their chops in PT football. Going part time is not the kiss of death to a career. Plenty of players go part time and then move up later. The  likes of ex saints, Hughes, Lammont, Love, Cuddehay and Reilly have all stuck at it.  In our squad, Todd falls into that category as did Agnew previously. I think this obsession with  Youth development as opposed to player development is one of the failings of the Scottish system. 

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9 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Dearie me TopCat he is out on loan to get first team experience which takes me back to my first post regarding us having a fantastic midfield.

Come on IOBS. It is not like TC to judge someone prematurely and not give the individual a chance. Nathan must go. Tick. Tock.

And Darren McGregor signed for us when he was 25 having signed for Cowdwnbeath when he was 23. But at 20 Nathan obviously does not have the quality we need.

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9 hours ago, TopCat said:

Well quite, whereas younger players than him are getting their first team experience here.  Not many players make it at full time level if they haven't had some kind of impact in it by their 20th birthday.   Maybe Nathan will be one of the exceptions, but probably not.

If we do go down to league 1 he will certainly be worth keeping.  If not I hope we either keep what we have or get in more established players.

Are you actually joking? He's went to Annan and from what I've heard done brilliantly well and got their young player of the year after less than six months.  What more does he have to do for him to deserve a contract? Can't believe how negative these comments are! yes he might be 20 but all players develop at different times, nothing to say he can't challenge the current players or replace them if they go.  Crazy!

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What I'm hearing from Topcat is the player is 20 so not good enough to get a new deal. The one bit of information you're looking at is he isn't as young as other players.  Thank god you don't make the decision.  'Sorry mate, you've done brilliant and got a POTY award but you aren't a teenager anymore so we're not taking the risk that this recent form and development continues.' :rolleyes: Unbelievably negative! 

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Age is not an issue, especially when you're only 20. Flanagan would have been behind Morgan, McAllister and even Walsh & McLear at that time. Going on loan was probably the best option for him because of his age - giving him the opportunity to play regularly and prove he can deal with the hurly burly of a physically demanding league.

It may well be that he isn't part of the manager's plans, but I wouldn't be too hasty in writing him off just yet. I would agree that if Morgan goes I would like to see us try to get someone more proven in to replace him, but Flanagan could be a good player to have on the bench, pace and directness against tiring defences could be an asset to have the option of. 

Alternatively we can just write him off as not good enough and then fumble around at a later date trying to prove we're right...

 

Don't buy the s#n.

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I think Morgan would be very difficult to replace. He can cut defences wide open, and absolutely terrorises full backs.

He occasionally over-runs the ball or runs out of steam, but as his final ball decision making improves (as it has consistently been doing), Morgan will just get better. 

It is an absolute joy to watch a winger in full flow. I would be over the moon if we can hold onto him.

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19 minutes ago, Drew said:

I think Morgan would be very difficult to replace. He can cut defences wide open, and absolutely terrorises full backs.

He occasionally over-runs the ball or runs out of steam, but as his final ball decision making improves (as it has consistently been doing), Morgan will just get better. 

It is an absolute joy to watch a winger in full flow. I would be over the moon if we can hold onto him.

Spot on. From the early games in the season when he was fantastic in the League Cup, through to the superb form over the past few months - the boy's a star. Unfortunately I think we'll struggle to hold onto him and Mallan, but we should certainly be making an effort. 

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