Alloa Athletic V St Mirren Championship 26/3/16

[Stuart Dickson]

I've seen enough of Baird, Stewart, Kelly, Mclearm McAlister and Morgan to know they are good talents. If they can play well in the under 20s and not the full team perhaps that says more about the management than players. To a degree this is true about Harkins, Imrie, Granger, Webster etc

That might well be true insaintee but did Reilly or Scullion go on to a higher level? Will Kelly, McLear, Morgan, Baird, Stewart or McAllistair? I can't imagine any of them getting a game for any club currently above St Mirren in the league. Can you?

I can understand everyone wishing the local young lad all the best and being patient with kids coming through, but seriously Stewart in particular yesterday was utter garbage and it's not just a one off either. Every time I've seen him play he's looked incredibly poor. Kelly at least had the distinction of looking incredibly poor in the top tier when I saw him - I'm not sure I've seen him play in 2016 but the fact Stewart got a game before him on Saturday suggests he's not got any better at this level either. I didn't rate Naismith last season either and it's incredible that some St Mirren fans seem desperate to see him stay basically by virtue of the fact that he's been crocked all through some of St Mirren's worst performances. As for Morgan, he seems quick, but I've never seen him lift his head. The head goes down and all he seems to do is run in the direction he's facing. And I think in all the games I've seen Baird play in he's looked competent as a defender in one match and looked decidedly ropey in all the rest.

I don't think I'm being remotely harsh either. Other clubs seem capable of taking a decent talent from the Under 20's squad and getting them to do a job in the top tier but at Ralston where the SFA have awarded a load of good behaviour stickers they seem to struggle to put players on the park at senior level who can control a ball and pass it - even to a standing statue - whether under pressure or not.

[insaintee]

That might well be true insaintee but did Reilly or Scullion go on to a higher level? Will Kelly, McLear, Morgan, Baird, Stewart or McAllistair? I can't imagine any of them getting a game for any club currently above St Mirren in the league. Can you?

I can understand everyone wishing the local young lad all the best and being patient with kids coming through, but seriously Stewart in particular yesterday was utter garbage and it's not just a one off either. Every time I've seen him play he's looked incredibly poor. Kelly at least had the distinction of looking incredibly poor in the top tier when I saw him - I'm not sure I've seen him play in 2016 but the fact Stewart got a game before him on Saturday suggests he's not got any better at this level either. I didn't rate Naismith last season either and it's incredible that some St Mirren fans seem desperate to see him stay basically by virtue of the fact that he's been crocked all through some of St Mirren's worst performances. As for Morgan, he seems quick, but I've never seen him lift his head. The head goes down and all he seems to do is run in the direction he's facing. And I think in all the games I've seen Baird play in he's looked competent as a defender in one match and looked decidedly ropey in all the rest.

I don't think I'm being remotely harsh either. Other clubs seem capable of taking a decent talent from the Under 20's squad and getting them to do a job in the top tier but at Ralston where the SFA have awarded a load of good behaviour stickers they seem to struggle to put players on the park at senior level who can control a ball and pass it - even to a standing statue - whether under pressure or not.

Stewart has done fairly well I was not there Saturday so can't comment but he's done enough to show his potential

Kelly had a good first season and then seemed to get exposed when the player in front of him was Wylde. He then had a good spell at centre half and has played well there this season as well. Frankly I'd rather see him there than Webster.

Morgan is not the finished article and needs to find a better final ball. The same could be said about James Forest, Garry M-S. McKay, King etc. However, he does seem to be able to go past a man easier than any of these players could at that age. I think this one is the real deal, and yesterday he'd come back from major injury came on and was one of our better players.

Baird has looked competent and has made mistakes but he's probably the youngest CH in the division, He did well at the tail end of last season and is that rarest of things, a centre half with a bit of pace. I don't think him and Webster gell. But there are precious few decent young centre halfs out there. And all of your criticisms of him could be equally applied to any centre half in the league with the possible exception of McGregor at hibs, and a good few in the league above.

The problem is that even though your not a St Mirren fan you see these boys most weeks in the big team not just edited highlights put out by clubs trying to punt them on for cash . Seriously have you watched McHattie, Stanton, McGhee, Patterson, McKay, Murdoch, Christie, Ali Crawford, There is certainly not a gulf between them and our young players. The difference is the quality of the rest of the team around them.

ETA I expect Reilly to end up at higher level than Caldwell, or Stanton. I think he will carve out a decent carrier at the mid to low levels, like Ally Love

Edited March 27, 2016 by insaintee

[DLBud]

You beat part timers 1-0 having been completely outplayed, outfought and out-thought. St Mirren rode their luck and only a wonder save from Jamie Langfield, a header off the line and some woeful finishing left the game open for Watson to steal the points with a tame mishit shot at the second time of asking.

Ofcourse wins are important and winning ugly can be a feature of a successful side, but anyone taking any comfort off of this level of performance is deluding themselves. I was at Alloa for the last away match there and whilst that was also incipid shite St Mirren were never threatened and they were good for their win. I predicted Rae would be a success as St Mirren manager but that performance yesterday suggested the club is back in reverse gear. You certainly have to wonder what exactly these players are doing on the training pitch at Ralston cause it doesn't look like they are practising any skills.

We did win though. That is the comfort I will be taking from this. Every single manager, every single one, would take three points each week irrespective of how his team played and if you disagree with that Stuart then you're the one that's deluded.

I've watched two of the top four (Falkirk and Raith) recently and don't feel we are much worse than them at this stage of the season. The damage was done by Murray and Rae is fixing that. We play the game to win. It's that easy IMO.

By the way, you don't half like overdramatising things don't you? One bad performance, in your eyes, suggests that the club is going in reverse? Well, the results, those things that count, say otherwise.

I know you'd like to see us fall on our arse but your going to have to wait a little longer.

Edited March 27, 2016 by DLBud

[Dalrybud]

Generally speaking I have no gripe with artificial pitches. I can understand the economics behind them for a small community club like Alloa. Regular income.

However, there does appear to be a disparity in the quality of these pitches and Alloa's is the poorest I've seen since that Accies pitch of about ten years or so ago.

Every time a player made contact with it when playing the ball there was a ridiculous amount of black/grey pellets(?) flying up. Why?

Interesting to note that it has done bugger all for Alloa on the park this season. No home wins? Be interesting to hear Jack Ross' take on the pitch.

[norrie82]

I don't think our young players are good enough. Mallan aside

[Stuart Dickson]

Stewart has done fairly well I was not there Saturday so can't comment but he's done enough to show his potential

Kelly had a good first season and then seemed to get exposed when the player in front of him was Wylde. He then had a good spell at centre half and has played well there this season as well. Frankly I'd rather see him there than Webster.

Morgan is not the finished article and needs to find a better final ball. The same could be said about James Forest, Garry M-S. McKay, King etc. However, he does seem to be able to go past a man easier than any of these players could at that age. I think this one is the real deal, and yesterday he'd come back from major injury came on and was one of our better players.

Baird has looked competent and has made mistakes but he's probably the youngest CH in the division, He did well at the tail end of last season and is that rarest of things, a centre half with a bit of pace. I don't think him and Webster gell. But there are precious few decent young centre halfs out there. And all of your criticisms of him could be equally applied to any centre half in the league with the possible exception of McGregor at hibs, and a good few in the league above.

The problem is that even though your not a St Mirren fan you see these boys most weeks in the big team not just edited highlights put out by clubs trying to punt them on for cash . Seriously have you watched McHattie, Stanton, McGhee, Patterson, McKay, Murdoch, Christie, Ali Crawford, There is certainly not a gulf between them and our young players. The difference is the quality of the rest of the team around them.

ETA I expect Reilly to end up at higher level than Caldwell, or Stanton. I think he will carve out a decent carrier at the mid to low levels, like Ally Love

You weren't there on Saturday so you say you can't comment on Stewarts performance but you reckon Morgan - the sub - was one of the better players.....come on insaintee what's your agenda.

How many years in development academies and how many years as a full time professional footballer do you think it takes before a midfielder is capable of a decent final ball? Surely this is a basic skill for a midfielder. Surely if a boy who has been a midfielder for years and years of his life hasn't learned the skill of lifting their head and seeing where his team mates are, before delivering a ball to their general vicinity they aren't going to make it. Morgan is 19. Did Paul Lambert have the same issues with final balls? What about Tony Fitzpatrick, Peter Weir, Billy Stark or even f**king Brian Hamilton? Not one of them had an expensive football academy on a beautifully flat pitch under floodlights. I doubt any were coached by FIFA Licenced Coaches and I'm sure the gravel parks and concrete streets and playgrounds they played on didn't have loads of wee gold stars awarded to it by the SFA. Yet each one of them would dwarf Morgans talent over and over again yet you think he's the real deal.

I have watched McHattie, McGhee and Patterson many times. Sam Nicolson is a better example but I rate Patterson very highly. Crawford is a weird one to stick on your list since he's 24. He's doing alright but I don't think he'll go on to big money in his career. But if you want to look at others of a similar age to Morgan who have learned how to deliver a final ball how about Liam Henderson, Dylan McGeough, or Lewis Kidd in the Championship - all of whom are far better players than Morgan and all of whom are closer to being the "real deal" than any of the current batch coming out of Ralston. Even Mallan who is well over hyped isn't anywhere near as good.

[Stuart Dickson]

Generally speaking I have no gripe with artificial pitches. I can understand the economics behind them for a small community club like Alloa. Regular income.

However, there does appear to be a disparity in the quality of these pitches and Alloa's is the poorest I've seen since that Accies pitch of about ten years or so ago.

Every time a player made contact with it when playing the ball there was a ridiculous amount of black/grey pellets(?) flying up. Why?

Interesting to note that it has done bugger all for Alloa on the park this season. No home wins? Be interesting to hear Jack Ross' take on the pitch.

It's certainly not a good quality plastic pitch but it's flat and it ran true - unlike many of the grass pitches on offer in any of the Scottish senior leagues at this time of year.

Black pellets are used on all plastic pitches. It's to stop the pile - artificial blades of grass - from flattening over. I didn't think there was ridiculous amounts on the pitch yesterday and they certainly shouldn't be used as an excuse for a woeful performance.

BTW, we've taken our kids team to play on that pitch at Alloa several times. It certainly wasn't the kind of surface our kids were used to but our players were able to control the ball and to pass it without any complaint. Alloa have beaten us 3 out of the 4 times we played them but I wouldn't use the pitch as an excuse.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[insaintee]

You weren't there on Saturday so you say you can't comment on Stewarts performance but you reckon Morgan - the sub - was one of the better players.....come on insaintee what's your agenda.

How many years in development academies and how many years as a full time professional footballer do you think it takes before a midfielder is capable of a decent final ball? Surely this is a basic skill for a midfielder. Surely if a boy who has been a midfielder for years and years of his life hasn't learned the skill of lifting their head and seeing where his team mates are, before delivering a ball to their general vicinity they aren't going to make it. Morgan is 19. Did Paul Lambert have the same issues with final balls? What about Tony Fitzpatrick, Peter Weir, Billy Stark or even f**king Brian Hamilton? Not one of them had an expensive football academy on a beautifully flat pitch under floodlights. I doubt any were coached by FIFA Licenced Coaches and I'm sure the gravel parks and concrete streets and playgrounds they played on didn't have loads of wee gold stars awarded to it by the SFA. Yet each one of them would dwarf Morgans talent over and over again yet you think he's the real deal.

I have watched McHattie, McGhee and Patterson many times. Sam Nicolson is a better example but I rate Patterson very highly. Crawford is a weird one to stick on your list since he's 24. He's doing alright but I don't think he'll go on to big money in his career. But if you want to look at others of a similar age to Morgan who have learned how to deliver a final ball how about Liam Henderson, Dylan McGeough, or Lewis Kidd in the Championship - all of whom are far better players than Morgan and all of whom are closer to being the "real deal" than any of the current batch coming out of Ralston. Even Mallan who is well over hyped isn't anywhere near as good.

And yet McGinn from Ralston is clearly better than McGeoch, Henderson or Kidd. What's your agenda!!!

No one comparing Morgan with Stark, Fitzpatrick or Lambert but FFS Lewis Kidd

You're not listening to what I'm saying. for every Tierney there's a McMullan. Every team has more misses than hits with the youth. I've said Morgan needs to improve and I think he will. I also think Mallan will. You watched Stark Weir etc at their peak these boys are starting out. apples and oranges mate

[BuddieinEK]

You weren't there on Saturday so you say you can't comment on Stewarts performance but you reckon Morgan - the sub - was one of the better players.....come on insaintee what's your agenda.

How many years in development academies and how many years as a full time professional footballer do you think it takes before a midfielder is capable of a decent final ball? Surely this is a basic skill for a midfielder. Surely if a boy who has been a midfielder for years and years of his life hasn't learned the skill of lifting their head and seeing where his team mates are, before delivering a ball to their general vicinity they aren't going to make it. Morgan is 19. Did Paul Lambert have the same issues with final balls? What about Tony Fitzpatrick, Peter Weir, Billy Stark or even f**king Brian Hamilton? Not one of them had an expensive football academy on a beautifully flat pitch under floodlights. I doubt any were coached by FIFA Licenced Coaches and I'm sure the gravel parks and concrete streets and playgrounds they played on didn't have loads of wee gold stars awarded to it by the SFA. Yet each one of them would dwarf Morgans talent over and over again yet you think he's the real deal.

I have watched McHattie, McGhee and Patterson many times. Sam Nicolson is a better example but I rate Patterson very highly. Crawford is a weird one to stick on your list since he's 24. He's doing alright but I don't think he'll go on to big money in his career. But if you want to look at others of a similar age to Morgan who have learned how to deliver a final ball how about Liam Henderson, Dylan McGeough, or Lewis Kidd in the Championship - all of whom are far better players than Morgan and all of whom are closer to being the "real deal" than any of the current batch coming out of Ralston. Even Mallan who is well over hyped isn't anywhere near as good.

Paul Lambert was worst than useless in the equivalent of the Championship back in the day.

I felt he should have starred... I knew he had the ability... Performances were rank.

Billy Stark and even Brian Hamilton were slated by worse cynics than you... Yet lauded by more informed individuals.

Silly examples used to trash young lads that may or may not make it at the higher level of the game, irrespective of your ascerbic input.

[pozbaird]

Once a St.Mirren supporter always a St.Mirren supporter.

Unless your name is Gerard Butler.

Glory hunting cnut.... Wee basturt....

Despite being a hard-core Celtic fan and regularly jetting from his LA home to watch his beloved team play, Butler admitted he had not always supported the top-of-the-league side.

He said: I spent the first eight years of my life supporting St.Mirren who are the Paisley team, but then when I was about eight, I decided to get a life of my own and break away from my older brother. Then I starting supporting Celtic which I have to admit was a much more fun prospect.

Or Paolo Nutini.

Glory hunting cnut.... Wee nasally basturt...

Perhaps he derives this spirit from Paisley: A town of 74,000 in Scotland, it plays host to St. Mirren, a football team so "hopeless" that even Nutini gave up supporting them when he was a kid. He returns there whenever he gets the chance, to "get some perspective," even though he realizes it "seems to get more and more rundown every time I go back."

Pair of cnuts.

Edited March 27, 2016 by pozbaird

[Sonny]

Alloa are ripping up that pitch as soon as the season finishes. Goody on Radio Scotland today stated the Alloa pitch is shocking to play on. You cannot make short passes and the ball does not bounce properly and mostly just stops dead after a bounce. He knows of no professional that likes playing on it. So the state of the pitch does have an effect on the game.

[Stuart Dickson]

And yet McGinn from Ralston is clearly better than McGeoch, Henderson or Kidd. What's your agenda!!!

No one comparing Morgan with Stark, Fitzpatrick or Lambert but FFS Lewis Kidd

You're not listening to what I'm saying. for every Tierney there's a McMullan. Every team has more misses than hits with the youth. I've said Morgan needs to improve and I think he will. I also think Mallan will. You watched Stark Weir etc at their peak these boys are starting out. apples and oranges mate

Honestly you're going to defend Jordan Stewart who didn't put in a single winning tackle yesterday, and who failed to get any passes away to their intended targets without being closed down and you're going to laugh at Lewis Kidd, who until he went off injured v St Mirren at SMP was by far the best player on the park. Kidd, I should add, is also clearly a player who does know how to deliver a decent cross ball.....unlike your Lewis Morgan.

I wouldn't say that McGinn is a better player than Henderson either BTW. I like McGinn but I think Henderson is a far more creative player - that really is comparing apples with oranges though. What isn't is comparing a 19 year old Lewis Morgan with a 20 year old Tony Fitzpatrick or Peter Weir, or a 17 year old Paul Lambert. I doubt any of those players were playing at the "peak" of their career at St Mirren. Certainly Lambert went on to win a European Cup medal with Dortmund and Weir went on to rip apart Real Madrid for Aberdeen in the European Cup Winners Cup Final.

[Stuart Dickson]

Paul Lambert was worst than useless in the equivalent of the Championship back in the day.

I felt he should have starred... I knew he had the ability... Performances were rank.

Billy Stark and even Brian Hamilton were slated by worse cynics than you... Yet lauded by more informed individuals.

Silly examples used to trash young lads that may or may not make it at the higher level of the game, irrespective of your ascerbic input.

Well bookmark this then Brian and you can throw it back in my face when Jordan Stewart stars for Bayern Munich and Lewis Morgan replaces Messi at Barca. I'll tell you now I can't see either having much of a future in the game at all and I really have to wonder what they're practising down at Ralston these days? it certainly doesn't look like it's football skills that's for sure.

[Stuart Dickson]

Alloa are ripping up that pitch as soon as the season finishes. Goody on Radio Scotland today stated the Alloa pitch is shocking to play on. You cannot make short passes and the ball does not bounce properly and mostly just stops dead after a bounce. He knows of no professional that likes playing on it. So the state of the pitch does have an effect on the game.

Did you see it stop dead at any point on Saturday? I didn't.

There's a load of shit said and written about that park. It's not the best, but it's flat and it's in far better condition than the grass pitches around half our senior grounds at this time of year.

Oh and Goodwin didn't play on that park on Saturday, he warmed up on it and the last time St Mirren played there he was out injured so what would he know?

Edited March 27, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[BuddieinEK]

Well bookmark this then Brian and you can throw it back in my face when Jordan Stewart stars for Bayern Munich and Lewis Morgan replaces Messi at Barca. I'll tell you now I can't see either having much of a future in the game at all and I really have to wonder what they're practising down at Ralston these days? it certainly doesn't look like it's football skills that's for sure.

Jings.. What a brave, triumphant and forward looking prediction that is.

Must take real balls to shit on the prospective careers of young lads like that.

[Stuart Dickson]

Jings.. What a brave, triumphant and forward looking prediction that is.

Must take real balls to shit on the prospective careers of young lads like that.

FFS - really? So what would you do if you ran a football team? Just hang on to every player no matter how shite they are so as not to hurt their feelings?

It's time the club stopped judging its academy on how many stars the SFA give it and start looking at what is actually being produced. Hanging young lads out to dry who clearly shouldn't be on a football pitch at this level doesn't justify all the money being wasted down Ralston way.

[BuddieinEK]

FFS - really? So what would you do if you ran a football team? Just hang on to every player no matter how shite they are so as not to hurt their feelings?

It's time the club stopped judging its academy on how many stars the SFA give it and start looking at what is actually being produced. Hanging young lads out to dry who clearly shouldn't be on a football pitch at this level doesn't justify all the money being wasted down Ralston way.

A.... You don't run this football team.

B... Your lengthy diatribes are neither interesting nor helpful.

C... Why? Honestly. Lonely?

[Stuart Dickson]

A.... You don't run this football team.

B... Your lengthy diatribes are neither interesting nor helpful.

C... Why? Honestly. Lonely?

A.... I never said I did

B... then don't read them

C... No

[BuddieinEK]

A.... I never said I did

B... then don't read them

C... No

Because I care...

[BuddieinEK]

A.... I never said I did

B... then don't read them

C... No

Oh... And well done on "concise"! Much better. ;)

[nedflanders123]

FFS - really? So what would you do if you ran a football team? Just hang on to every player no matter how shite they are so as not to hurt their feelings?

It's time the club stopped judging its academy on how many stars the SFA give it and start looking at what is actually being produced. Hanging young lads out to dry who clearly shouldn't be on a football pitch at this level doesn't justify all the money being wasted down Ralston way.

How successful are any of the other academies? Investment in uncovering the next talented generation will always be a lottery.

[insaintee]

Honestly you're going to defend Jordan Stewart who didn't put in a single winning tackle yesterday, and who failed to get any passes away to their intended targets without being closed down and you're going to laugh at Lewis Kidd, who until he went off injured v St Mirren at SMP was by far the best player on the park. Kidd, I should add, is also clearly a player who does know how to deliver a decent cross ball.....unlike your Lewis Morgan.

I wouldn't say that McGinn is a better player than Henderson either BTW. I like McGinn but I think Henderson is a far more creative player - that really is comparing apples with oranges though. What isn't is comparing a 19 year old Lewis Morgan with a 20 year old Tony Fitzpatrick or Peter Weir, or a 17 year old Paul Lambert. I doubt any of those players were playing at the "peak" of their career at St Mirren. Certainly Lambert went on to win a European Cup medal with Dortmund and Weir went on to rip apart Real Madrid for Aberdeen in the European Cup Winners Cup Final.

And that's why you have no credibility

[insaintee]

How successful are any of the other academies? Investment in uncovering the next talented generation will always be a lottery.

Apparently Celtic can be proud of Lewis Kidd

[Port Saint]

You weren't there on Saturday so you say you can't comment on Stewarts performance but you reckon Morgan - the sub - was one of the better players.....come on insaintee what's your agenda.

Not being there hasn't stopped you from spouting your pish for years.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Port Saint

[norrie82]

The pitch was terrible. If you were there you'd notice that alloa started putting the ball in behind our defence as it was stopping and making it hard for defenders to judge. It was a much different bounce almost stopping.