Alex Rae Vs Ian Murray

[LanarkshireBuddie]

Apologies if there is a thread running :

comparing the 2 mangers over 16 games Raes record over 16 games works out at 8 wins.2 draws. and 6 defeats 26 points in 16 games working that out as a average work got us around 58 points which would have got playoffs which shows missed opportunity but also that next season we should be pushing on and given this isn't raes squad a summer to get right players in we should be going for title next year regardless of who comes down

and murrays record was shocking

2 wins, 6 draws, 8 defeats 12 points in 16 games and if he stayed in charge surely we would've went down

[foxbar_bud]

Murray was a disaster for us but there's no need to keep sticking the boot into him.

FWIW, he was in the main stand for the game on Saturday and he looked 100% better than towards the end of his reign.

[Magic Monkey]

Murray was a disaster for us but there's no need to keep sticking the boot into him.

FWIW, he was in the main stand for the game on Saturday and he looked 100% better than towards the end of his reign.

Decent post. He's just a guy, trying to do a job. He wasn't coming in every day deliberately trying to f**k us over. He wanted us to be good as much as anyone - it's his career, after all.

Luckily, we moved incisively and, it seems, successfully. Rae appears to have been a good appointment. he has done remarkably well; the January window is always a nightmare but he did pretty well, all things considered.

We are due a big squad clearout, and I've seen enough to be confident that Rae will have us in the top four next season (though it'll be a tough league - probably Hibs, the Arabs and Falkirk. That's a very decent second tier.)

[Sweeper07]

Decent post. He's just a guy, trying to do a job. He wasn't coming in every day deliberately trying to f**k us over. He wanted us to be good as much as anyone - it's his career, after all.

Luckily, we moved incisively and, it seems, successfully. Rae appears to have been a good appointment. he has done remarkably well; the January window is always a nightmare but he did pretty well, all things considered.

We are due a big squad clearout, and I've seen enough to be confident that Rae will have us in the top four next season (though it'll be a tough league - probably Hibs, the Arabs and Falkirk. That's a very decent second tier.)

Don't want to pick a fight, as the tenor of your post is fine; but I don't think we moved "incisively."

Other managers in similar positions were sacked far earlier than Murray was. (e.g. Ian Baraclough in September) It was so obvious from the start of his reign, and all the way, that he was not capable of delivering what was required. It is fine to feel sorry for him - but he was woeful and a very near disastrous appointment.

I don't bear him any grudges - but the BOD should have acted much much quicker - then we might just have made the play-offs.

[Magic Monkey]

Don't want to pick a fight, as the tenor of your post is fine; but I don't think we moved "incisively."

Other managers in similar positions were sacked far earlier than Murray was. (e.g. Ian Baraclough in September) It was so obvious from the start of his reign, and all the way, that he was not capable of delivering what was required. It is fine to feel sorry for him - but he was woeful and a very near disastrous appointment.

I don't bear him any grudges - but the BOD should have acted much much quicker - then we might just have made the play-offs.

Haha, yeah, I'll concede that point. Perhaps I just meant 'incisively for St Mirren'

In my defence, we did move pretty quickly to replace Murray, too - those rumours that Rae was already lined up won't go away. Certainly a vast improvement on the fatal hesitancy our BoD displayed the previous year once Craig was axed.

But no, I agree, the decision about Murray was overdue when it came.

[LanarkshireBuddie]

it wasn't meant as a dig to ian murray more to do with how much weve improved under alex rae and if recruit well we should be going for title and get this club back where we belong.

[TopCat]

Don't want to pick a fight, as the tenor of your post is fine; but I don't think we moved "incisively."

Other managers in similar positions were sacked far earlier than Murray was. (e.g. Ian Baraclough in September) It was so obvious from the start of his reign, and all the way, that he was not capable of delivering what was required. It is fine to feel sorry for him - but he was woeful and a very near disastrous appointment.

I don't bear him any grudges - but the BOD should have acted much much quicker - then we might just have made the play-offs.

Bogus comparison with Barraclough, he wasn't newly appointed in the summer like Murray was.

I'm glad we aren't a club that sacks a manager after a few games.

[Sweeper07]

Bogus comparison with Barraclough, he wasn't newly appointed in the summer like Murray was.

I'm glad we aren't a club that sacks a manager after a few games.

Murray was delivering less points than Baraclough and McNamara at the time they were sacked - and it is points on the Board that managers (players, directors) are expected to deliver - not whether they were recently appointed or in the 2nd or 3rd season.

Murray was obviously lacking tactically and results show he did not have the backing of the players, who could not understand or deliver his tactical plans (Even his assistant did not manage to carry them out - he then was axed) - and then there was the fans who did not frankly know how much smarter he was than them.

Not sure what kind of honeymoon you think managers should have in professional football?

The reality is if Murray had been sacked earlier for his clear failure to deliver decent results, we would have finished higher than we will - that means our club seriously underperformed this season.

Put simply that was another bad management decision of the BOD (I suspect they thought they were doing it for the right reasons, though the cost of sacking him clearly influenced their decision much more than it should have.)

Finally : "we aren't a club that sacks a manager after a few games". - it wasn't after a few games - He was manager for 24 games - and a blind man could see he was drowning every single week bar the few we scraped wins in.

He could have gone, 4, 8 or 12 games earlier - what a real difference that would have made!!! At the very least, when Miller was brought in - he should have been away.

[Sweeper07]

Haha, yeah, I'll concede that point. Perhaps I just meant 'incisively for St Mirren'

In my defence, we did move pretty quickly to replace Murray, too - those rumours that Rae was already lined up won't go away. Certainly a vast improvement on the fatal hesitancy our BoD displayed the previous year once Craig was axed.

But no, I agree, the decision about Murray was overdue when it came.

I accept your defence - you win your case.

The good news is we have some one capable of management, tactics and who instils a winning mentality into his players now - the alternative was horrendous.

[Soctty]

Under Rae...

Under Murray...

This was before the weekend's game, but shows the disparity between the two.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Soctty

[Sweeper07]

Murray should have been sacked after the result on October 3rd - by then in all games his record was :-

after 15 games in charge

wins 3 - success 20% that is 1 win every 5 games

draws 5 - success 33%

loses 7 - success 47% that is defeat every 2nd game

A record which clearly shows the writing was on the wall IN BOLD LETTERS

Edited April 6, 2016 by Sweeper07

[Kemp]

Murray was delivering less points than Baraclough and McNamara at the time they were sacked - and it is points on the Board that managers (players, directors) are expected to deliver - not whether they were recently appointed or in the 2nd or 3rd season.

Sorry, but that is nonsense. Obviously a manager in his first season clearing up the mess Tommy Craig left behind will be given more time than someone who is in their 2nd or 3rd season with their own squad.

[Sweeper07]

Sorry, but that is nonsense. Obviously a manager in his first season clearing up the mess Tommy Craig left behind will be given more time than someone who is in their 2nd or 3rd season with their own squad.

Even if results are at so far below expectations, the squad is rubbish, and he is disillusioning the fans? I think not.

And it was not after Tommy Craig - another manager (Teale) was put in place after him for approximately 6 months! (Teale's hands were tied with a far too tight budget also - so the guys he wanted went elsewhere.

Murray was signed before the season ended - he disappeared at a crucial time and never landed "His signings" till a month into the season.

It is also clear from the fact that Murray has not landed another big management job in football that no one else so far thinks he has what it takes.

I don't think many Saints fans think Murray should have been kept on, and I suspect now that we can all see the difference Rae has made, would not have liked the transition to have taken place a lot sooner.

Finishing higher in the league would also have brought in more money.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Sweeper07

[Lord Pityme]

Murray was a disaster for us but there's no need to keep sticking the boot into him.

FWIW, he was in the main stand for the game on Saturday and he looked 100% better than towards the end of his reign.

So did the team on the pitch!

[Lord Pityme]

Decent post. He's just a guy, trying to do a job. He wasn't coming in every day deliberately trying to f**k us over. He wanted us to be good as much as anyone - it's his career, after all.

Luckily, we moved incisively and, it seems, successfully. Rae appears to have been a good appointment. he has done remarkably well; the January window is always a nightmare but he did pretty well, all things considered.

We are due a big squad clearout, and I've seen enough to be confident that Rae will have us in the top four next season (though it'll be a tough league - probably Hibs, the Arabs and Falkirk. That's a very decent second tier.)

Murray came from nothing, and managed to leave with less!

He should never have bet let near any managerial appointment he doesnt have the insight, leadership and conviction to organise a team to pull the froth aff a coffee.

As a player he did not display any of the qualities that would lead you to believe he would be a captain never mind manager. Tomorrow I could be working at the RAH as a heart surgeon, just trying to do a job.... Thing is I wouldnt even dream of attempting it because I know its beyond me, and people who count on me will be let down.

Remember Murray's first signing? Mr A Gow.... Surely if you hadnt already worked out he was a dud, that signing must have confirmed it.

[Vambo57]

I think Rae would win. He's much harder.

[Reynard]

If Murray was still here we'd be completely f**ked.

[DougJamie]

The thing that Rae has done with , lets face it, a pretty crap squad is turn around this record..............

Since 4-1 Defeat to Livi we have played 7 home games Won 4 D 2 Lost 1. Something Craig Teale and Murray all failed to do. We may well have Peterhead or Ayr , instead of Sons and Livi, fact is our inability to beat the bottom teams at home cost us.

[Reynard]

Our board have made a series of rubbish decisions in the past few years. Hopefully they've fluked a half decent manager in Rae.

[pod]

Our board have made a series of rubbish decisions in the past few years. Hopefully they've fluked a half decent manager in Rae.

Everything in lifes a gamble.

Even my spelling.

Edited April 6, 2016 by pod

[oaksoft]

Our board have made a series of rubbish decisions in the past few years. Hopefully they've fluked a half decent manager in Rae.

So when the board make a decision with bad consequences they've "f**ked up"?

When they make a decision with good consequences they've "fluked it"?

That's neither fair nor reasonable.

Murray was an excellent decision based on his record and what we could afford and the decision was roundly welcomed on here.

Rae was a gamble and the decision was treated with scorn and anger on here.

One then worked out and the other didn't resulting in pretty speedy rectification from the board.

It seems to me that you and many other idiots on here can't get your tiny brains around the difference between a decision and the outcome of a decision. To be fair, people who have achieved absolutely nothing in their lives in terms of responsibility often don't understand this.

Thank f**k for those who voted to keep you out of political office.

Edited April 6, 2016 by oaksoft

[Sweeper07]

So when the board make a decision with bad consequences they've "f**ked up"?

When they make a decision with good consequences they've "fluked it"?

That's neither fair nor reasonable.

Murray was an excellent decision based on his record and what we could afford and the decision was roundly welcomed on here.

Rae was a gamble and the decision was treated with scorn and anger on here.

One then worked out and the other didn't resulting in pretty speedy rectification from the board.

It seems to me that you and many other idiots on here can't get your tiny brains around the difference between a decision and the outcome of a decision. To be fair, people who have achieved absolutely nothing in their lives in terms of responsibility often don't understand this.

Thank f**k for those who voted to keep you out of political office.

You are just having a laugh aren't you?

If the directors of a football club make a long series of bad decisions (take a look at Craig, Teale, letting our highest paid players go every year etc etc.) and this results in the downward spiral of the "business" yes they have f***d up - it wasn't the fans fault was it.

If by the law of averages they get one decision right eventually - it is possible they got lucky or that they finally got some good advice for a change.

Murray's record at Dumbarton has been posted on this website many times - it was cra*p. To say his appointment was an excellent decision for any reason is complete lunacy - they conceded 79 goals and won 9 games out of 36 in the league - dead impressive.

This is the kind of penny pinching speculation that has caused our spiralling downfall in recent seasons.

At long last we have a decent manager - let's not miss the trick before he is offered a better deal elsewhere.

[elvis]

Well said .

[Lord Pityme]

So when the board make a decision with bad consequences they've "f**ked up"?

When they make a decision with good consequences they've "fluked it"?

That's neither fair nor reasonable.

Murray was an excellent decision based on his record and what we could afford and the decision was roundly welcomed on here.

Rae was a gamble and the decision was treated with scorn and anger on here.

One then worked out and the other didn't resulting in pretty speedy rectification from the board.

It seems to me that you and many other idiots on here can't get your tiny brains around the difference between a decision and the outcome of a decision. To be fair, people who have achieved absolutely nothing in their lives in terms of responsibility often don't understand this.

Thank f**k for those who voted to keep you out of political office.

Oh you do like a laugh... Eh? Murray's record at Dumbarton consisted of

not getting relegated,

then nearly getting relegated,

and if he had stayed with us I Am sure he would have succeeded in getting relegated.... Its all there in black& white..!

[DougJamie]

So when the board make a decision with bad consequences they've "f**ked up"?

When they make a decision with good consequences they've "fluked it"?

That's neither fair nor reasonable.

Murray was an excellent decision based on his record and what we could afford and the decision was roundly welcomed on here.

Rae was a gamble and the decision was treated with scorn and anger on here.

One then worked out and the other didn't resulting in pretty speedy rectification from the board.

It seems to me that you and many other idiots on here can't get your tiny brains around the difference between a decision and the outcome of a decision. To be fair, people who have achieved absolutely nothing in their lives in terms of responsibility often don't understand this.

Thank f**k for those who voted to keep you out of political office.

Seriously one of the funniest load of crap postings made on here. Geez listen to yourself. Who said Murray was excellent? A part timer, with a team that plays Gaelic football. Bringing Agnew with him showed his metal. Seriously mate, get over yourself.

But thanks for making me LOL , I am sure your really only kidding