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1877 Club

1,064 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, FTOF said:

I signed up for the supporters club to help set up some sort of supporters bar. I wasn't really expecting the current format to work particularly smoothly, but I understood why certain things had to be in place. I hoped for a reduction in the guest admission fee, in particular.

I paid up front for a year and I don't want any money back. The way I see it, I've helped in a small way to set up something that hopefully in future can be used by a wider audience.

Myself and two others would probably have been there yesterday, but circumstances transpired that we couldn't. Hopefully we'll be able to make it before and after the Hibs game.

I would hope that the supporters club with respect to both its current and future situation, is one of the many matters that will be addressed by the new set up. Might be worth finding out the business plans relating to other clubs with successful supporters clubs, if they haven't done so already.

As Div says, this must not turn into a blamefest.

I blame you and the other elitist club members. :P

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15 minutes ago, div said:

Really don't want this to be a SMiSA vs Fans Council thing or a Fans Council beating.

The club is brilliant, and the FC deserve a lot of credit for getting it built IMO.

Hopefully the setup can be tweaked so more people can benefit from using the facility.


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Nobody should expect it to be a SMiSA thing or indeed a Fan council thing, the club and the Fan council have new leadership now and it's mostly for the greater good of the club, the major players who planned this bar have now moved on and left others to pick up the pieces.

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12 minutes ago, norrie82 said:

So if you buy a scratchcard your actually paying for a supporters club that I can't get into?

Yes, if you read back on previous posts about this bar, you will find that it was stated that scratchcards revenue will partly pay for it, although it was later denied, scratchcards revenue goes directly to the club and it cannot be linked directly to paying for the bar but they were originally thought up as a means of funding the bar.

Again no fault of the current FC

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I would like to make it clear that the bar is not owned and operated by the fan council, it is purely and simply owned by the club and it's members pay for it through monthly subscription, it's just unfortunate that the previous board decided to give our money to pay for it upfront and then concocted ways for those who cannot get access to help meet the cost.

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56 minutes ago, buddiecat said:

I would like to make it clear that the bar is not owned and operated by the fan council, it is purely and simply owned by the club and it's members pay for it through monthly subscription, it's just unfortunate that the previous board decided to give our money to pay for it upfront and then concocted ways for those who cannot get access to help meet the cost.

Good.

It's now up to the club to come up with ideas how to sort out the situation and put forward sort of proposal to the current members.

As I said earlier, I won't be difficult to deal with, as I feel it should be more accessible to all.

I have no idea whether the supporters club can remain viable without a monthly membership, but it's looking to me, that if it's going to accessible to all, then the membership has to be binned and alternative funding methods investigated. Whether that's pay as you go entry fee or some sort of sponsorship deal, I don't know.

What I do know is that it has got to be done with some haste, otherwise the already visible resentment towards the supporters club will escalate.

Edited by FTOF

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An interesting read this thread, and a sensible suggestion re finding a financial solution to opening the club up to everyone.

I hope the early stages of Fan Ownership aren't going to descend into finger pointing and score settling though.

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6 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Good.

It's now up to the club to come up with ideas how to sort out the situation and put forward sort of proposal to the current members.

As I said earlier, I won't be difficult to deal with, as I feel it should be more accessible to all.

I have no idea whether the supporters club can remain viable without a monthly membership, but it's looking to me, that if it's going to accessible to all, then the membership has to be binned and alternative funding methods investigated. Whether that's pay as you go entry fee or some sort of sponsorship deal.

What I do know is that it has got to be done with some haste, otherwise the already visible resentment towards the club will escalate.

My concern is that this bar has been set up and has a membership constitution and that it would  be costly to legally overturn the rules and regulations, i'm only speculating here but i feel that its' set up will be its' downfall and it will cost us more money before it has to change or close. It would be a very sad day if it did have to close and ultimately fans as a whole group will lose the money spent by the previous board to fund this ridiculous excuse for a supporters bar and see no return for it, it would also be extremely upsetting to those who paid membership subscriptions to be left with nothing whether it closes or changes to be more inclusive, it would be wrong to give those club members any refunds, because we will have already lost money spent on going to games and buying scratchcards to fund it, unfortunately they signed up for something that could end up costing us all and they would have to accept that although it should never have been opened in its current format, they should have known the risks to their subscriptions if it failed to make money.

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As a died in the wool retailer i did flag up the sheer naivety of investing much needed club funds into a business that has by design a target audience of 200. 

Does anyone know of a pub opening that only considers 200 potential customers, on 20 days a year for a couple of hours? 

Contrast this with the Fan Party yesterday where a load of buddies enjoyed reasonably priced beers, food, with Billy G laying down the tunes, getting pictures and chatting with the club chairman, CEO (and legend) and the management team. All for No Charge.... It Aint rocket science!

Edited by Lord Pityme
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The 1877 bar can be hired out by the club, it can generate revenue out with match days the same way that the hospitality lounge can.

It will pay for itself if it is marketed properly.

The licensing seems to be responsible for a reduced capacity from what you would think the space could hold but even so I think it can still hold 300 and it should really have been full yesterday instead of running at maybe 30%


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2 hours ago, buddiecat said:

Nobody should expect it to be a SMiSA thing or indeed a Fan council thing, the club and the Fan council have new leadership now and it's mostly for the greater good of the club, the major players who planned this bar have now moved on and left others to pick up the pieces.

 'moved on' as in now a club director?

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Shouldn't be forgotten that we (well the 1300-odd SMISA members) have influence on the running of the club. Below is from SMISA's latest e-mail:

Quote

Spending trust income

As you know, the bulk of our income is going towards the share purchase and saving up the cash ultimately needed to buy out Gordon and achieve fan ownership.
 
But £2 per month from each member will be ring-fenced to be spent on the club as you choose, and at current membership levels, that is just over £4,000 per month.

We are still finalising the details of the procedure for spending this but the plan is for us to survey members on where they want to see the money spent, speak to club about where they need investment, and compile the results into a shortlist of options for members to vote on via secure online ballot.

We hope to repeat this process every three months, meaning members will get four votes per year. We feel this will be a really good way to keep the membership engaged, while deciding how their money will help the club.

Early days for the 1877 club, but a bar at the club should be busier than it was yesterday you would think. If it doesn't make as much money as it potentially could then presumably that would be the kind of situation where the voting system comes into play. One of the options for the ring-fenced £4000 / month could be: 

"The '1877 Club' is running at a loss and may need to close. To make it more financially viable, it is proposed that current members of the 1877 Club are refunded all money paid thus far and the club is made open to all. All £4K will go towards effecting this change for the next x months".

If the proposal wins that particular quarterly vote, then with that amount of money to play with it wouldn't take long to resolve.   

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37 minutes ago, Julian Banjos said:

Shouldn't be forgotten that we (well the 1300-odd SMISA members) have influence on the running of the club. Below is from SMISA's latest e-mail:

Early days for the 1877 club, but a bar at the club should be busier than it was yesterday you would think. If it doesn't make as much money as it potentially could then presumably that would be the kind of situation where the voting system comes into play. One of the options for the ring-fenced £4000 / month could be: 

"The '1877 Club' is running at a loss and may need to close. To make it more financially viable, it is proposed that current members of the 1877 Club are refunded all money paid thus far and the club is made open to all. All £4K will go towards effecting this change for the next x months".

If the proposal wins that particular quarterly vote, then with that amount of money to play with it wouldn't take long to resolve.   

I do not expect the money i pay every month to be used to bail out the bar, i expect it to be used to further our ambitions on the park.

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It's an annual membership fee isn't it? If so just let it run for a year on a member only basis, see how the finances stack up and if it's not viable then scrap the membership scheme and just open it up on match days to anyone who wants to use it. I don't see any reason to give anyone their money back. 

 

 

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It's an annual membership fee isn't it? If so just let it run for a year on a member only basis, see how the finances stack up and if it's not viable then scrap the membership scheme and just open it up on match days to anyone who wants to use it. I don't see any reason to give anyone their money back.
 


It's a monthly membership fee plus all members paid a one off fee to help fund the build.


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4 hours ago, santaponsasaint said:

Club is run by Campbell Kennedy. All complaints should sent to him.

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I don't think it is a case of complaining, Gary. Its more about people being concerned that the facility won't be viable, and suggesting possible ways round this.

A few of us stood with a coffee outside, across from the Main Stand, as the rain started to fall at the back of 2 on Saturday.  I had just commented that Div had Tweeted that the bar area was half empty. Seemed like a wasted opportunity. That's not a complaint, just a well intended observation.

Edited by Drew

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8 hours ago, buddiecat said:

I do not expect the money i pay every month to be used to bail out the bar, i expect it to be used to further our ambitions on the park.

Well then you don't vote for the proposal.

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11 hours ago, buddiecat said:

My concern is that this bar has been set up and has a membership constitution and that it would  be costly to legally overturn the rules and regulations, i'm only speculating here but i feel that its' set up will be its' downfall and it will cost us more money before it has to change or close. It would be a very sad day if it did have to close and ultimately fans as a whole group will lose the money spent by the previous board to fund this ridiculous excuse for a supporters bar and see no return for it, it would also be extremely upsetting to those who paid membership subscriptions to be left with nothing whether it closes or changes to be more inclusive, it would be wrong to give those club members any refunds, because we will have already lost money spent on going to games and buying scratchcards to fund it, unfortunately they signed up for something that could end up costing us all and they would have to accept that although it should never have been opened in its current format, they should have known the risks to their subscriptions if it failed to make money.

I'd be fairly confident in thinking that just about everyone who has signed up for the 1877 Club will have signed up to Buy the Buds. I don't think many/any of those folk would be looking for a refund for their initial outlay if a different financial model was decided for the future. However, there's a difference between being happy to accept those changes, and being told that it's just tough and you'll need to get on with it.

I understand that many folk aren't happy with the funding model chosen for the 1877 Club, but the fans who are members, are just that, fans who wanted to help fund something that they would use on a matchday. The funding model is obviously not perfect, and I'd be keen to find a way of opening the club to all but, as I've mentioned before on this thread, these are early days of Fan Ownership and there's a need for a bit of diplomacy and calm thinking. As far as I'm aware, the subscriptions are making a £2k monthly repayment to the club for the construction of the facility, in addition to the initial set up fee. I think any suggestion of relaxing the current restrictions on access to the bar is pushing at an open door, but talking about 'we' and 'they' when referring to St Mirren fans, isn't going to do anything other create divisions.       

         

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11 hours ago, buddiecat said:

My concern is that this bar has been set up and has a membership constitution and that it would  be costly to legally overturn the rules and regulations, i'm only speculating here but i feel that its' set up will be its' downfall and it will cost us more money before it has to change or close. It would be a very sad day if it did have to close and ultimately fans as a whole group will lose the money spent by the previous board to fund this ridiculous excuse for a supporters bar and see no return for it, it would also be extremely upsetting to those who paid membership subscriptions to be left with nothing whether it closes or changes to be more inclusive, it would be wrong to give those club members any refunds, because we will have already lost money spent on going to games and buying scratchcards to fund it, unfortunately they signed up for something that could end up costing us all and they would have to accept that although it should never have been opened in its current format, they should have known the risks to their subscriptions if it failed to make money.

I understand that you're less than pleased about the way that the supporters club was set up. However, that was in the past and we have to move on and sort out an acceptable situation to all. With all due respect, criticising the previous board and the fan's council does no good at all, as we enter a new era. As much as it rankles, we need to work together to improve the club.

What you see as "bailing out" , I see as an opportunity to bring the support together and to take the supporters club forward and open it to all of the support.

One particular positive from it all, is that we don't have to start from scratch, as the physical set up within the bar itself is excellent.

The fans have been asking for the void to be re-developed as a supporter's bar for years, and I do see sorting this situation out as a priority for the new owners, as it would be utter madness to let what is there already wither and die because of past individual's perceived actions.

 

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16 minutes ago, FTOF said:

I understand that you're less than pleased about the way that the supporters club was set up. However, that was in the past and we have to move on and sort out an acceptable situation to all. With all due respect, criticising the previous board and the fan's council does no good at all, as we enter a new era. As much as it rankles, we need to work together to improve the club.

What you see as "bailing out" , I see as an opportunity to bring the support together and to take the supporters club forward and open it to all of the support.

One particular positive from it all, is that we don't have to start from scratch, as the physical set up within the bar itself is excellent.

The fans have been asking for the void to be re-developed as a supporter's bar for years, and I do see sorting this situation out as a priority for the new owners, as it would be utter madness to let what is there already wither and die because of past individual's perceived actions.

 

Spot on fella, great post.

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I was invited along by a member on saturday. First and foremost, I have to say the bar looks fantastic and the memorabilia area is great. Although someone could do with a spirit level for all the picture frames :P The drink is reasonably priced and theres an ok selection available.

Sadly at £6 to get in, and to only get signed in by a member, I probably won't be back again in the near future. I don't have the disposable income to become a member. It would have been nice to watch other games before hand too as there was very little atmosphere in the place with no music or no games on.

It's a shame really. This could be a great venue for before and after games if it was open to anyone and the ticket prices were a little cheaper. But I'd rather go to a place where everyone can meet up and not require to be signed in and we can watch the footy and grab a bite of food before we go.

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11 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

As a died in the wool retailer i did flag up the sheer naivety of investing much needed club funds into a business that has by design a target audience of 200. 

Does anyone know of a pub opening that only considers 200 potential customers, on 20 days a year for a couple of hours? 

If, and that is a big if given I and most others do not know how the private bar is financed, how much debt it has, what the actual turnover is against predicted targets etc. There will need to be a business decision taken to ensure the club isnt left with a liabilty, i.e. The bar cant meet it's commitments.

if you dont want to call it bailing out thats fine, but hard assed business acumen is required now, to turnround what could become a serious situation. I heard second hand there were about twenty in for the Edinburgh city game. That level of patronage wont pay the wages, let alone any other commitments.

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