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I thought what was done in the hospitality suite when there was no corporate event on was a good idea. Think it was a fiver in and that included one drink. Your ticket got you entry back in after the game.

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The whole set up seemed wrong..a limited membership that pays off the costs of setting up the bar facility..too exclusive. Most clubs I know of do not limit their membership numbers and would love to have more. Even with unlimited memberships,clubs are still struggling to get them in the door for various reasons. Allow an increase in members and hope that they choose to use the facilities not expect 200 to turn every match day.

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Edited by alanb

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Reasonably sure that if you queried the way the place was being set up and run, the response to that tended to be 'well, the club won't build it, so if you don't want to be part of it, don't join'. If the place is struggling already, and the talk now is of SMiSA funds generated by the 1373 going towards the private members club bar, then call it what you will, but in reality it would be a bail-out. Would need SMiSA members to vote for doing so though. What if the vote was 'no'? - Divisive. What if the vote is 'yes' - divisive again. Fcuking brilliant.

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Any change in how the bar is run and financed needs to come from its members. as would any re - financing. you can't expect another organisation to make up deficit/debt repayments. If Smisa were ever to become involved imo that would only work as a complete fresh start with no historical hangover.
that said I believe the club holds sway over the bar so perhaps they will intervene at some point?

Edited by Lord Pityme

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25 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Reasonably sure that if you queried the way the place was being set up and run, the response to that tended to be 'well, the club won't build it, so if you don't want to be part of it, don't join'. If the place is struggling already, and the talk now is of SMiSA funds generated by the 1373 going towards the private members club bar, then call it what you will, but in reality it would be a bail-out. Would need SMiSA members to vote for doing so though. What if the vote was 'no'? - Divisive. What if the vote is 'yes' - divisive again. Fcuking brilliant.

The vast majority of the support are completely unaware that the 1877 club is being used a vehicle for a small number of individuals to get their handbags out, and wouldn't care anyway!

The bottom line is we've got a great facility now thanks to the Fans' Council. If it doesn't work in its current format then let's get it sorted it quickly and move on. The disposable income is there to do it.

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I think there are two different issues here. Div's suggestion was on how the use of the bar could be expanded and the matchday experience improved.

As far as financing the club goes - my understanding was that the Fans Council and the previous BoD came to a financial agreement to fit out the bar, with members paying an initial set up fee and monthly subscriptions to pay off the cost. The club own the facility and can rent it out to other parties. I assume that any bar takings/profits are also taken by the club. So, once the fit out has been repaid, the club has an additional facility that can be used to bring in additional revenue, and it hasn't cost the club or the wider fan base a penny. Unless monthly subscriptions drop off considerably or I'm way off the mark with how it all works, I'm not sure where the suggestion of 'bail-outs', the need for SMiSA funds or the football club losing money come into it? Lower attendance on a match day simply leads to the football club taking less money in bar takings? That's the basis of what I signed up for, and the prospect of helping the club financially was one of the main reasons for doing so.       

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Yeah I think there is a certain amount of exaggerating and knicker wetting going on now which was never my intention!

The club remains at "full" subscription levels to my knowledge and that fixed income was what was in the business plan. That income is there whether the members attend or not.

The bar revenue may well be down on expectations but I see posts like "won't the beer go off" and I laugh. The stock can easily be moved from one room to another if that was ever going to be an issue!

My posts was really about opening it up to more people and generating more of an atmosphere. The by product of that would be more revenue of course but it's never going to be game changing amounts of money we are talking about here. An extra 100 people spending £10 a head on drink isn't a big deal financially but it would be a big deal to the general feel of the place.

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In general, over the decades, St Mirren have been piss poor at running most things. 

Although they do specialise and seem to do okay in organising f**king Dinners. 

But doing something simple like advertising the sale of Car Park Season Tickets, then you turn up with the Cash, only to be told, that Tickets huvnae been delivered. 

f**king laughable. 

That is one of many over the years. 

Plus, cannae get round to fixing a dud Tannoy that has been f**ked for years. 

UNPROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB 

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Don't know about knickerwetting and suchlike. All I saw was a thread started by an OP expressing concern about very low numbers in the private members club, and as the discussion advanced through subsequent posts, various things were spoken of, including someone mentioning the possibility of SMiSA funds being diverted the club's way. (The 1877 Club, not the football club). Other posters discussed scrapping entry fees, etc, etc. Looks like a normal forum thread to me.

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3 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Don't know about knickerwetting and suchlike. All I saw was a thread started by an OP expressing concern about very low numbers in the private members club, and as the discussion advanced through subsequent posts, various things were spoken of, including someone mentioning the possibility of SMiSA funds being diverted the club's way. (The 1877 Club, not the football club). Other posters discussed scrapping entry fees, etc, etc. Looks like a normal forum thread to me.

I'm referring to posts talking about "bailing out" the 1877 club and those then suggesting SMiSA funds could be used for that purpose.

The one thing a fixed membership fee does guarantee is fixed monthly income. If 200 members pay an average of £7.50 a month then there is £1.5K coming in whether anyone sets foot in the place or not. The club can also be rented out on any of the other many many days of the week when it is not being used so as such I don't want to paint it as some sort of white elephant, it will stand on it's own two feet just as it was supposed to do.

If the membership starts dropping off then clearly that would be a concern but I've no reason to believe there has been any change at all in membership and nor would I expect there to be since it's only been open 5 times!

My opening post here was really to try and work out how we can get more people to enjoy what is a really great facility and how the facility itself can be improved.

The 1877 club doesn't need "bailing out". It needs a wee bit of thought as to how more supporters can benefit from it. Two very different things IMHO!

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I am sure a clever Business dude could set up a lucrative deal between Woodside Crematorium, Local Funeral Directors and whoever is in charge of the perfect facilities at the Stadium. 

St Johnstone seem to do After Funeral Dinners very well. 

Has anyone ever investigated? 

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As Div says, a bit much being made of this.

The supporters club could do with a boost. I referred to its viability, but was thinking more along the lines of how it could be best utilised.

It is relatively early days, though indications are that it needs a boost. It seems that this is something for the club to consider, whilst consulting with the FC, and people who have signed up. This could be an interesting test of the acumen of the new regime, and their ability to address an issue that, while far from being a crisis, could do with some attention.

 

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Its laughable that forum members are instantly labelled as knicker wetters if they decide to contribute to a topic.

if you raise the issue of a poorly attended private bar, then pour scorn on others thoughts, why bother seeking anyone else's input?

our support is not big enough, or stupid enough to have warring factions a la the peoples liberation front of judea etc.. There are a number of ways forward that would work through inclusion, but if thats not on offer from the bar's membership then its up to them to sort out their own issues. This bar was built from funds contributed to by every StMirren fan, the club has as far as I am aware the majority stake in it, Smisa members own 29% of the club and therfor hold the right to hold the club and board accountable on its business decisions. 

If the bar can't meet its commitments, the club need to act as a lot of everyones money is in that bar.

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8 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Its laughable that forum members are instantly labelled as knicker wetters if they decide to contribute to a topic.

if you raise the issue of a poorly attended private bar, then pour scorn on others thoughts, why bother seeking anyone else's input?

our support is not big enough, or stupid enough to have warring factions a la the peoples liberation front of judea etc.. There are a number of ways forward that would work through inclusion, but if thats not on offer from the bar's membership then its up to them to sort out their own issues. This bar was built from funds contributed to by every StMirren fan, the club has as far as I am aware the majority stake in it, Smisa members own 29% of the club and therfor hold the right to hold the club and board accountable on its business decisions. 

If the bar can't meet its commitments, the club need to act as a lot of everyones money is in that bar.

Who said the bar can't meet it's commitments?

These are exactly the sort of comments I'm referring to as "knicker wetting" because you have absolutely NO basis of fact for making that sort of statement.

I've already explained quite clearly why I started this thread and it had absolutely nothing to do with finance.

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Gordon Scott did say that one of the priorities of the new regime was to "improve the matchday experience". You'd have to imagine this place will be at the centre of that. Even if everything's in place to pay it off, you can't imagine the board will stand by and do nothing if there aren't many people using it.

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3 minutes ago, div said:

Who said the bar can't meet it's commitments?

These are exactly the sort of comments I'm referring to as "knicker wetting" because you have absolutely NO basis of fact for making that sort of statement.

I've already explained quite clearly why I started this thread and it had absolutely nothing to do with finance.

I carefully stated 'If' the bar cant/isnt making its commitments, I also carefully stated i don't know what the bar's finances/commitments are. You brought up the topic suggesting it wasnt working out, as on a day when it should have its best attendance it was actually only about a third full. Extrapolating that basic info over a season when lets be honest less well attended games will prevail would see its turnover running at a third of its potential on matchdays, and possibly less.

that as a business person who had an influence over decisions would get me to act before the situation deterioated and people started to cancel subscriptions as the general feel dropped. Its so easy to let a sliding situation spiral downwards very quickly than it is to act and regain momentum.

that said i get the sense you are not looking for non-members thoughts so I will leave it to bar members to air their thoughts and recovery strategies. As a Smisa member i will be keen to see what, if any interventions or suggestions the club make, as that has a direct impact on 29% of what over 1300 so far have bought into.

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14 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I carefully stated 'If' the bar cant/isnt making its commitments, I also carefully stated i don't know what the bar's finances/commitments are. You brought up the topic suggesting it wasnt working out, as on a day when it should have its best attendance it was actually only about a third full. Extrapolating that basic info over a season when lets be honest less well attended games will prevail would see its turnover running at a third of its potential on matchdays, and possibly less.

that as a business person who had an influence over decisions would get me to act before the situation deterioated and people started to cancel subscriptions as the general feel dropped. Its so easy to let a sliding situation spiral downwards very quickly than it is to act and regain momentum.

that said i get the sense you are not looking for non-members thoughts so I will leave it to bar members to air their thoughts and recovery strategies. As a Smisa member i will be keen to see what, if any interventions or suggestions the club make, as that has a direct impact on 29% of what over 1300 so far have bought into.

Yeah I get it.

SMiSA good, everyone else bad.

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36 minutes ago, Julian Banjos said:

Gordon Scott did say that one of the priorities of the new regime was to "improve the matchday experience". You'd have to imagine this place will be at the centre of that. Even if everything's in place to pay it off, you can't imagine the board will stand by and do nothing if there aren't many people using it.

Why would a Pub be the centre of the main matchday experience for fans. 

Would it not be THE PITCH where the boys in aw white play? 

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16 minutes ago, div said:

Yeah I get it.

SMiSA good, everyone else bad.

Never have i seen a more petty, ill informed and divisive statement as that made by you above.

Smisa own 29% of the club, 1300 made that happen are you seeking to drive a wedge between those 1300 and anyone else?

you created the topic saying the bar as is 'wasnt working' now for reasons known to you its an opportunity to have a pop at Smisa, i won't get drawn into you're divisive discussions, I want what is best for the club, the support and the Smisa membership which thankfully will be a democratic discussion for the greater good, not a goading competition.

i wont contribute further to this thread.

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I can't for the life of me understand the bickering in this thread. A proposal was put forward to have a fans bar, 200 signed up generating circa 24k per annum in membership fees.

Another proposal to buy out the club was put forward by SMISA. Once again this was very successful. 

Both ventures should be applauded and held up as excellent examples of what we as St Mirren fans can achieve. 

Although sceptical of both ventures I signed up for both of them and would love for both to succeed. Surely the way forward is for us all to work together to make things work out.

As far as I can see both have been a big success with a bigger membership take up than many thought possible. There is no room for divisions from fans in our small club especially as in 10 years the fans will own the club.

 

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16 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

As a died in the wool retailer i did flag up the sheer naivety of investing much needed club funds into a business that has by design a target audience of 200. 

Does anyone know of a pub opening that only considers 200 potential customers, on 20 days a year for a couple of hours? 

Contrast this with the Fan Party yesterday where a load of buddies enjoyed reasonably priced beers, food, with Billy G laying down the tunes, getting pictures and chatting with the club chairman, CEO (and legend) and the management team. All for No Charge.... It Aint rocket science!

 

23 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Never have i seen a more petty, ill informed and divisive statement as that made by you above.

Smisa own 29% of the club, 1300 made that happen are you seeking to drive a wedge between those 1300 and anyone else?

you created the topic saying the bar as is 'wasnt working' now for reasons known to you its an opportunity to have a pop at Smisa, i won't get drawn into you're divisive discussions, I want what is best for the club, the support and the Smisa membership which thankfully will be a democratic discussion for the greater good, not a goading competition.

i wont contribute further to this thread.

Yes, here is you being totally non divisive.

You've only posted half a dozen times in this topic, and you've mentioned SMiSA in every single post.

I'm a SMiSA member the same as you are, but unlike you I'm quite happy to support all initiatives whether they are run by the club, SMiSA, the Fans Council, the Disabled Supporters Association, the supporters buses, the Supras, the Panda Club or anyone else for that matter.

I do thank you for leaving the thread though, it's kind of pointless repeating the same thing over and over again. We can all read.

 

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35 minutes ago, El Gingero said:

There were 9 of us in the Club Bar on Saturday from 12:00. Say 30 quid per round - Do the maths, lost revenue.

4 of us, standing at the Buddie Good Food Van, a coffee at £1.20 each. Okay, I wouldn't bother with the maths for that one:toilet

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