Our "Shambles" Of A Squad Inherited By Poor-Wee-It's-Not-His-Fault Jack Ross

[Dibbles old paperboy]

There is a lot of talk at the moment about how our squad is a shambles and it's no wonder we have lost 6 games in a row under Jack Ross, who is stuck with a squad he inherited who are simply not up to playing at Championship level. I mean, is it any wonder we have played 6, lost 6, scored twice in 9 hours and conceded 12 when this is what Jack Ross has to work with in the Scottish Championship alongside part time teams like Ayr United and Dumbarton.

Here's our shambles of a squad at Championship level:

1. Jamie Langfield, signed from Aberdeen, played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

2.  Jason Naismith, 2 years SPL experience, Scotland U21 cap, played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

3. Gary Irvine, signed from Dundee, has won the Championship with St Johnstone and played at SPL level with them and Dundee, played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

4. Andy Webster, capped 28 times for Scotland, played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

5. Jack Baird, has played in the SPL, played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

6. Gary MacKenzie, called up to 2 Scotland squad, previous clubs include Dundee, MK Dons, Blackpool and Doncaster Rovers.

7. Ben Gordon, previous clubs Dumbarton, Alloa and Livingstone. Played for the team who finished 9th in the Championship last season.

8. Stevie Mallan, 1 year's experience in the SPL, SPL Young Player of the Month winner, top scorer with the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

9. Rocco Quinn, 9 Scottish U21 caps, previous clubs include Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, Livingston, Hamilton Accies, Queen of the South and 5 seasons at Ross County. Played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

10. Kyle Hutton, 1 Scottish U21 cap, previous clubs include Rangers / Rangers International, Partick Thistle, Dunfermline and Queen of the South. Player of the season at the team who finished 7th in the Championship last season.

11. David Clarkson, Scotland B cap and full international cap, Scottish clubs include Motherwell & Dundee. Played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

12. Lawrence Shankland, 2 Scotland U21 caps, on loan from Aberdeen, also played for Queens Park and Dunfermline. Scored 10 goals for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

13. John Sutton, top scorer when Motherwell finished 2nd in the SPL during the 2013/4 season, signed from St Johnstone after also having played for Hearts and Motherwell in 8 seasons in the SPL.

14. Calum Gallagher, signed from Rangers International, scored 6 goals for the club who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

15. Ryan Hardie, on loan from Rangers International, another Scotland U21 player, 6 goals in 10 appearances with Raith Rovers who finished 4th in the Championship last season.

16. Tom Walsh, on loan from Rangers International, was joint top scorer until Jack Ross arrived and has hardly started a game since. Now no longer even a sub such is the firepower we have on the bench.

17. Jordan Stewart, played 1 game in the SPL, and 15 appearances last season in the Championship.

18. Kyle McAllister -stepping up from development squad

19. Lewis Morgan - stepping up from development squad

20. Kyle Magennis - stepping up from development squad

21. Lewis McLear - stepping up from development squad

With a shambles of a squad like that to work with, it is little wonder we haven't won a game all season and have 4 points after 14 games and might yet edge into double figures at this rate before the season is out.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Dibbles old paperboy

[Lord Pityme]

It makes you wonder, if Jack Loss is the 'Right Man' to improve our fortunes, how lucky are we, that we didnt get the 'Wrong Man'..?

[Stuart Dickson]

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't one of those people who were fooled by the way the squad was shaping up at the start of the season. I could see from the first match against Livingston that St Mirren were in trouble - although not as much trouble as the club is in now. I posted on here about it and, as usual, was rounded on and condemned by people who obviously know very little about football. However, Jack Ross is tearing up the rule book for a side in trouble. Most clubs faced with St Mirren's predicament would have turned to their experienced players and counted on them to pull the club through. Not Ross. He's told Langfield he won't play again, he's dropped Webster, uses McKenzie sparingly, sent Hutton to Airdrie, turned his back on Gallagher, Walsh and Hardie and he's chosen to rely on relatively untried youngsters like Jack Baird, Kyle Magennis, Kyle McAllister and Lewis Morgan. He's also chosen to start most of his matches in charge with a centre half who wasn't good enough to get a regular start from him at Alloa and with a goalkeeper Ross signed for Alloa as a stop gap last season and who was happy enough to let him move on after his side were relegated, replacing him with a part time keeper from Airdrie and a player who had given up football for a year before deciding to go back and resign for Alloa. 

And then to compound the problem it looks like Ross doesn't have a preferred formation, or even an idea of who his strongest starting 11 is as he has tinkered with both repeatedly since arriving at the club. 

And by the way the situation at St Mirren looks even more ridiculous when you know that St Mirren are a full time club with a Gold standard Academy yet have no scouts - and part time Alloa have TWO. St Mirren are definitely "all fur coat and no knickers". 

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

I believe in Jack and the players. Bit of good feed back from guys who were actually at Falkirk. 

[ged62]

I believe in Jack and the players. Bit of good feed back from guys who were actually at Falkirk. 

You would, easily pleased then are you? The club is still a shambles. Last board made horrendous decisions, looks like this board have done the same. The position in the league says it all about the club as a whole.

[Russian Saint]

There is a lot of talk at the moment about how our squad is a shambles and it's no wonder we have lost 6 games in a row under Jack Ross, who is stuck with a squad he inherited who are simply not up to playing at Championship level. I mean, is it any wonder we have played 6, lost 6, scored twice in 9 hours and conceded 12 when this is what Jack Ross has to work with in the Scottish Championship alongside part time teams like Ayr United and Dumbarton.

Here's our shambles of a squad at Championship level:

1. Jamie Langfield, signed from Aberdeen, played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

2.  Jason Naismith, 2 years SPL experience, Scotland U21 cap, played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

3. Gary Irvine, signed from Dundee, has won the Championship with St Johnstone and played at SPL level with them and Dundee, played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

4. Andy Webster, capped 28 times for Scotland, played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

5. Jack Baird, has played in the SPL, played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

6. Gary MacKenzie, called up to 2 Scotland squad, previous clubs include Dundee, MK Dons, Blackpool and Doncaster Rovers.

7. Ben Gordon, previous clubs Dumbarton, Alloa and Livingstone. Played for the team who finished 9th in the Championship last season.

8. Stevie Mallan, 1 year's experience in the SPL, SPL Young Player of the Month winner, top scorer with the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

9. Rocco Quinn, 9 Scottish U21 caps, previous clubs include Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, Livingston, Hamilton Accies, Queen of the South and 5 seasons at Ross County. Played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

10. Kyle Hutton, 1 Scottish U21 cap, previous clubs include Rangers / Rangers International, Partick Thistle, Dunfermline and Queen of the South. Player of the season at the team who finished 7th in the Championship last season.

11. David Clarkson, Scotland B cap and full international cap, Scottish clubs include Motherwell & Dundee. Played for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

12. Lawrence Shankland, 2 Scotland U21 caps, on loan from Aberdeen, also played for Queens Park and Dunfermline. Scored 10 goals for the team who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

13. John Sutton, top scorer when Motherwell finished 2nd in the SPL during the 2013/4 season, signed from St Johnstone after also having played for Hearts and Motherwell in 8 seasons in the SPL.

14. Calum Gallagher, signed from Rangers International, scored 6 goals for the club who finished 6th in the Championship last season.

15. Ryan Hardie, on loan from Rangers International, another Scotland U21 player, 6 goals in 10 appearances with Raith Rovers who finished 4th in the Championship last season.

16. Tom Walsh, on loan from Rangers International, was joint top scorer until Jack Ross arrived and has hardly started a game since. Now no longer even a sub such is the firepower we have on the bench.

17. Jordan Stewart, played 1 game in the SPL, and 15 appearances last season in the Championship.

18. Kyle McAllister -stepping up from development squad

19. Lewis Morgan - stepping up from development squad

20. Kyle Magennis - stepping up from development squad

21. Lewis McLear - stepping up from development squad

With a shambles of a squad like that to work with, it is little wonder we haven't won a game all season and have 4 points after 14 games and might yet edge into double figures at this rate before the season is out.

I totally agree. That's an overall very experienced squad. I've posted on here before that at the start of the season more than most were of the same opinion as me, we had what looked like one of the strongest (on paper) squads in the league.
We've gone from bad to worse under JR, the league position proves that.

[windae cleaner]

6 hours ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't one of those people who were fooled by the way the squad was shaping up at the start of the season. I could see from the first match against Livingston that St Mirren were in trouble - although not as much trouble as the club is in now. I posted on here about it and, as usual, was rounded on and condemned by people who obviously know very little about football. However, Jack Ross is tearing up the rule book for a side in trouble. Most clubs faced with St Mirren's predicament would have turned to their experienced players and counted on them to pull the club through. Not Ross. He's told Langfield he won't play again, he's dropped Webster, uses McKenzie sparingly, sent Hutton to Airdrie, turned his back on Gallagher, Walsh and Hardie and he's chosen to rely on relatively untried youngsters like Jack Baird, Kyle Magennis, Kyle McAllister and Lewis Morgan. He's also chosen to start most of his matches in charge with a centre half who wasn't good enough to get a regular start from him at Alloa and with a goalkeeper Ross signed for Alloa as a stop gap last season and who was happy enough to let him move on after his side were relegated, replacing him with a part time keeper from Airdrie and a player who had given up football for a year before deciding to go back and resign for Alloa. 

And then to compound the problem it looks like Ross doesn't have a preferred formation, or even an idea of who his strongest starting 11 is as he has tinkered with both repeatedly since arriving at the club. 

And by the way the situation at St Mirren looks even more ridiculous when you know that St Mirren are a full time club with a Gold standard Academy yet have no scouts - and part time Alloa have TWO. St Mirren are definitely "all fur coat and no knickers". 

Where to start

Langfield has been very poor and always good to chuck one in every game

Webster has been injured though i'm struggling to see how as i have never seen him put in a meaningful tackle yet

McKenzie he would love to play every week but is made of chocolate and picks up an injury in any game he plays

Hutton has lived off that he played for Rangers but has never been that level.In fact a few of my mates despaired of the standard of Murray Park if Hutton was the type breaking through

Gallagher wasn't very good last season and picked up injuries and looks poor in any U/20s game

Hardie hasn't broke sweat since he has been here and doesn't want to be here

Walsh has been unlucky as he has shown bits of quality and should have been used

On the Academy they have got big problems coming up at the end of the season anyway due to the failings of the first team

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

2 hours ago, ged62 said:

You would, easily pleased then are you? The club is still a shambles. Last board made horrendous decisions, looks like this board have done the same. The position in the league says it all about the club as a whole.

No one is saying we are in a bed of roses. Clearly the team performance at Falkirk was good up till we lost a player. Things wont change overnight but at least fans who attend yesterday's game were pleased by the performance.  Unfortunately Ross had to change the squad around to compensate going a man down. Still feel free to rant away with doom and gloom. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by Isle Of Bute Saint

[zurich_allan]

I would fully admit that at the start of the season I was very optimistic, as 'on paper' our squad is top 6 certainly, and top 3 or 4 arguably on past experience and form.

However, the more I've watched, the more it looks to me like the squad haven't been coached consistently in some of the basics of team play such as how to move into space and open yourself up to receive a pass, and importantly how to cover the defence when full backs / wing backs are attacking. I don't know who in the coaching staff is responsible for these specific areas, but they aren't coaching them effectively or the team are ignoring what they're being coached.

[ged62]

No one is saying we are in a bed of roses. Clearly the team performance at Falkirk was good up till we lost a player. Things wont change overnight but at least fans who attend yesterday's game were pleased by the performance.  Unfortunately Ross had to change the squad around to compensate going a man down. Still feel free to rant away with doom and gloom. 

Mmm maybe because it is doom & gloom we're at the bottom of the table as you know. What's to be positive about that. Ok we got a player sent off but again no points. You batter in defending the club at every point. Then wait a minute you posted you will no longer attend games if we go down, can't mind if it was on this topic. You call me fickle [emoji6]
I did agree with you though that we can't keep changing managers but something has to change. We all want what's best for the club, our opinions are just different [emoji6]

[Dave The Buddie]

Jack Ross has to take responsibility that in the 6 league games he has taken charge of he has not managed to claim 1 point to date. I don't care that he inherited someone else's team and mess. Any manager or coach worth anything should be able to motivate and set up a team to pick up points in the games we have played in especially at home against Dunfermline & Dumbarton.

I don't agree that our performances have massively improved in the league. Other than the Dumbarton and possibly Jack's 1st game in charge against Dundee Utd we have been 2nd best in all others.

Do I feel he should get the sack in other circumstances I would say yes but we as a club have put ourselves in a position it would not be an attractive job to any decent manager out there due to the frequency of our change in managers in recent seasons. I didn't agree with the appointment of Jack Ross at the time I wanted Calderwood but we've made our bed we need to lie in it and the manager will be given time.

People that think the January window will be our saviour are deluded. Where are the funds coming from?We are 4 games away from the half way point of the season and are without a win this season and are 9 points from our nearest team and 10 points from safety. It would take Championship winning form in the 2nd half of the season for us to get out this and prevent relegation and am afraid only the signings of Messi & Ronaldo would give me hope.

Anyone got a spare £300 million?

[Lord Pityme]

4 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

I believe in Jack and the players. Bit of good feed back from guys who were actually at Falkirk. 

I was there and after Baird had his brain fart we proceeded to gift three goals to Falkirk. Maybe i am old fashioned in that when people say we are improving, i expect that to be reflected in goals for and points won. We played a bit, but we are terribly naive, most of our energy is wasted complaining about Miller and Hippolyte. Just what Houstin wants i guess?

[FTOF]

A phrase commonly used to describe Blub's posts springs to mind.

[shull]

Is that your contribution to our Forum today. 

Just on to have a go at Stuart. 

Have you nothing original to contribute to this Topic? 

Laughable 

[Drew]

It seems to me that Dibble gets his jollies by proferring long-winded, unremittingly negative - and, ultimately, toxic - threads and posts.

I reckon he should find a new hobby.

[Stuart Dickson]

It seems to me that Dibble gets his jollies by proferring long-winded, unremittingly negative - and, ultimately, toxic - threads and posts.

I reckon he should find a new hobby.

..... Says Drew who last year claimed he himself had to find a new hobby.

[Drew]

13 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

 

..... Says Drew who last year claimed he himself had to find a new hobby.

 

Did I?

There you go, I practice what I preach.

Go me!

[doonhamer]

Dibble, I think your original post is suggesting there is nothing wrong with our squad and our league position is Jack Ross's fault. I disagree with the first part and partly agree with the second.

Your detailed pen pictures neatly describe the mess our squad is in: it is made up of old journeymen who are well past their best and young inexperienced lads who have the heart but not the nounce to win games.  The squad is horribly imbalanced and Ross, to give him some credit, has acknowledged this. 

I'm not looking to challenge your player descriptions but your line about Langfield does slightly weaken your argument. Do you want him to be playing every week?  Or Hutton?  Or Webster?  These, and others, have plenty of experience but they are way past their prime and these three in particular are liabilities. I'm afraid the squad is a bit of a shambles and we can at least credit Ross with dropping Langfield and shipping out Hutton. 

Ross was an odd choice for manager (Ian Murray mark II) and he hasn't shown any signs of improving our league position.  He has to carry the can for that.  I believe there are plenty of unemployed managers out there who could have taken this shambles of a squad by the scruff of its neck and got more out of them.  Sadly we don't have the resources to buy our way out of this mess in January or the internal leadership abilities to make cart horses believe they are thoroughbreds.  We can't sack Jack Ross but he is definitely going to relegate us. 

[Callum Gilhooley]

I love how the OP simply lists the clubs players have played for previously as if it is some sort of guarantee of said players ability & neglects to mention than many of those players are past it / never reached it / or simply shite.

 

 

 

[shull]

Dx2 played for Manchester United. 

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

44 minutes ago, doonhamer said:

Dibble, I think your original post is suggesting there is nothing wrong with our squad and our league position is Jack Ross's fault. I disagree with the first part and partly agree with the second.

Your detailed pen pictures neatly describe the mess our squad is in: it is made up of old journeymen who are well past their best and young inexperienced lads who have the heart but not the nounce to win games.  The squad is horribly imbalanced and Ross, to give him some credit, has acknowledged this. 

I'm not looking to challenge your player descriptions but your line about Langfield does slightly weaken your argument. Do you want him to be playing every week?  Or Hutton?  Or Webster?  These, and others, have plenty of experience but they are way past their prime and these three in particular are liabilities. I'm afraid the squad is a bit of a shambles and we can at least credit Ross with dropping Langfield and shipping out Hutton. 

Ross was an odd choice for manager (Ian Murray mark II) and he hasn't shown any signs of improving our league position.  He has to carry the can for that.  I believe there are plenty of unemployed managers out there who could have taken this shambles of a squad by the scruff of its neck and got more out of them.  Sadly we don't have the resources to buy our way out of this mess in January or the internal leadership abilities to make cart horses believe they are thoroughbreds.  We can't sack Jack Ross but he is definitely going to relegate us. 

Two or three managers knocked us back by all accounts experienced managers at that. So obviously our budget on players and management salary had a lot to do with that. From the outside looking in we are now a small club with a lower than average wage structure. Certainly could be argued a experienced manager from the lower leagues would have been successful. The days where we could compete with middle sized clubs has gone. Its youth and experience players at the end of their playing days  we have to live with. Get relegated then its part time football a forgotten force in Scottish football apart from our fans some of which think we are bigger than we are. 

[Stuart Dickson]

Two or three managers knocked us back by all accounts experienced managers at that. So obviously our budget on players and management salary had a lot to do with that. From the outside looking in we are now a small club with a lower than average wage structure. Certainly could be argued a experienced manager from the lower leagues would have been successful. The days where we could compete with middle sized clubs has gone. Its youth and experience players at the end of their playing days  we have to live with. Get relegated then its part time football a forgotten force in Scottish football apart from our fans some of which think we are bigger than we are. 

Seriously? Lower than average? For this division?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Dont pretend to know the salary Stuart. The facts are we always seem to have a manager on garden leave. Add the managers ruling themselves out of the managers job after speaking to the club. So something is wrong for me that will be the budget. 

[Stuart Dickson]

I love how the OP simply lists the clubs players have played for previously as if it is some sort of guarantee of said players ability & neglects to mention than many of those players are past it / never reached it / or simply shite.
 

Did you point this out at the time they signed? Would you be comfortable if I checked back to quote you during the summer?

As I remember it there weren't many dissenting voices over the summer. Indeed when I posted my critique after the 3-2 win at Livingston I seem to remember many telling me I was wrong. I'm pretty certain you were one of them.

[Bud the Baker]

2 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

 

 

Did you point this out at the time they signed? Would you be comfortable if I checked back to quote you during the summer?

As I remember it there weren't many dissenting voices over the summer. Indeed when I posted my critique after the 3-2 win at Livingston I seem to remember many telling me I was wrong. I'm pretty certain you were one of them.

 

Critique - get you!