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22 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

This is how laughable SMiSA are. Even their own committee members don't understand their constitution. :rolleyes:

SMISA Constitution for anyone wanting to read it without having to hunt for the single word link hidden away on the SMiSA website

Kenny, read page 2. What I call the SMISA Committee, is defined as "the board". Committee meetings are defined as "board meetings". And Committee Members are terms "directors". So for clarity you were co-opted onto the board of the 1877 Society, which is a Community Benefit Society, and as a "Director" of this society, you are supposed to be upholding the constitution. 

Now check out this

Yet you've got 13. The latest two - one of which is you - were co-opted onto the Society Board of Directors without any consultation with the membership and no minutes of meetings provided to explain why the Society have breached their own constitution. 

Zip back again to this

Has the Society conducted it's business for the benefit of the community served by the club? Has it achieved it's aim with an interest free loan to the £multi million business that is St Mirren FC, and with handing over money to contribute to players wages? 

I'm glad I resigned my membership. Imagine ever entrusting the current group of committee members with the running of St Mirren FC. By f**k they'd be hopeless. 

 

13 directors are allowed under the constitution:

64. The Society Board may co-opt up to one external Directors to the Society Board in addition to the number of Directors specified in these Rules provided that at all times the total number of external directors and Members co-opted under Rule 65 shall be in the minority. A Director co-opted in accordance with this rule shall serve for a fixed period determined by the Society Board at the time of co-option, subject to a review at least every twelve months, may be removed from office at any time by a resolution passed by a majority of the members of the Society Board, and may be remunerated in an amount (to be disclosed in the published accounts) from time to time, as fixed by the Society Board. External Directors shall be selected by virtue of their specialist skills and experience considered to be of benefit to the Society.

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2 minutes ago, bud77 said:

 

13 directors are allowed under the constitution:

64. The Society Board may co-opt up to one external Directors to the Society Board in addition to the number of Directors specified in these Rules provided that at all times the total number of external directors and Members co-opted under Rule 65 shall be in the minority. A Director co-opted in accordance with this rule shall serve for a fixed period determined by the Society Board at the time of co-option, subject to a review at least every twelve months, may be removed from office at any time by a resolution passed by a majority of the members of the Society Board, and may be remunerated in an amount (to be disclosed in the published accounts) from time to time, as fixed by the Society Board. External Directors shall be selected by virtue of their specialist skills and experience considered to be of benefit to the Society.

Is that Blub being shown to be wrong again?

I see he's keeping up the time honoured tradition of being laughed out of yet another club/committee that he's tried to infest with his attention seeking, toxic shit stirring.

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Has the Society conducted it's business for the benefit of the community served by the club? Has it achieved it's aim with an interest free loan to the £multi million business that is St Mirren FC, and with handing over money to contribute to players wages? 
I'm glad I resigned my membership. Imagine ever entrusting the current group of committee members with the running of St Mirren FC. By f**k they'd be hopeless. 


The community served by the club, in the most immediate sense, would be the fans of the club and even the employees of the club. The loan will see the USH repaired and games being on. The playing budget being assisted could see the fans watching more wins, but will assist Jack with his plans. The disabled platform gives the obvious match day enhancement.

I'm really not sure what community you are hell bent on serving, but it never appears to be the primary one served by the club. You can obviously engage other community groups, but they aren't the spine of what takes priority.
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1 hour ago, bud77 said:

 

13 directors are allowed under the constitution:

64. The Society Board may co-opt up to one external Directors to the Society Board in addition to the number of Directors specified in these Rules provided that at all times the total number of external directors and Members co-opted under Rule 65 shall be in the minority. A Director co-opted in accordance with this rule shall serve for a fixed period determined by the Society Board at the time of co-option, subject to a review at least every twelve months, may be removed from office at any time by a resolution passed by a majority of the members of the Society Board, and may be remunerated in an amount (to be disclosed in the published accounts) from time to time, as fixed by the Society Board. External Directors shall be selected by virtue of their specialist skills and experience considered to be of benefit to the Society.

So which one of Kenny Morrison or David Riley has specialist skills and experience, was co-opted onto the board as an external director and can expect remuneration? What is their fixed period? And how many members of the current board were co-opted into their posts? 

Edited by Stuart Dickson
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55 minutes ago, TsuMirren said:

 


The community served by the club, in the most immediate sense, would be the fans of the club and even the employees of the club. The loan will see the USH repaired and games being on. The playing budget being assisted could see the fans watching more wins, but will assist Jack with his plans. The disabled platform gives the obvious match day enhancement.

I'm really not sure what community you are hell bent on serving, but it never appears to be the primary one served by the club. You can obviously engage other community groups, but they aren't the spine of what takes priority.

 

Really? 

I think you misunderstand the duties of a Community Benefit Society.  

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Just now, Stuart Dickson said:

Really? 

I think you misunderstand the duties of a Community Benefit Society.  

You're an honest idiot, if nothing else.

For Community, see - the Cooncil or SNP - for fitba-related matters see SMISA, who ARE the paisley fitba community in action..

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So which one of Kenny Morrison or David Riley has specialist skills and experience, was co-opted onto the board as an external director and can expect remuneration? What is their fixed period? And how many members of the current board were co-opted into their posts? 


The external director was/is already there. I even mentioned that earlier.
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13 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Charming. I don't know why anyone would believe anything that comes out of SMiSA anymore though.

I never believed you when you were in SMISA.

 

I'm even less inclined to believe you now you've come out of it, so you're right, there.

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8 minutes ago, El Gingero said:

Why?

 

 

Dunno. The SMiSA "board" didn't tell the membership they were doing it, they didn't ask the memberships opinion on it, and they didn't publish the minutes of any meetings. When I asked how many members of the current "board" had been co-opted into their "directorships" I got no proper answer. Maybe you could try asking? 

 

 

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Stuart I really don't know what your deal is with fan ownership and calling other St Mirren fans stupid.  SMISA have at no time said every single penny of the £2 discretionary fund would go to community projects and whereas it's a great thing to do the majority of fans have had their say.  To say fans are stupid for wanting to spend these funds on the player budget just isn't right.  It's a different opinion from yours that's it.  SMISA and St Mirren have done so many good things in the community and that will continue.  Right now we have to get ourselves out of this bottom of the league mess we're in. £10,000 is a drop in the ocean compared to what could be raised by the direct debit scheme.  

Get off your high horse about cancelling your membership and self righteous about how community orientated you are.  It's done now, fan ownership will happen, the money will go to the player budget and St Mirren & SMISA will learn together on the way with every single person having the best intentions of this club at heart.  You aren't better than anyone else and the way you've went about this forum (like so many others) you certainly aren't smarter than anyone else.  Take your £25 a month and do with it what you will but I'd suggest don't try and rip apart the team you (apparently) support in their attempt to get better and stronger as a fan owned club. 

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I couldn't care less how many people are on the SMiSA board or the SMiSA committee.

These guys are giving up their own time voluntarily for the good of the organisation. They get absolutely no benefit on being on committee/board or whatever.

In fact the only "benefit" they get is giving up a load of their spare time for no reward, and get abused on public forums.

I doff my cap to anyone mad enough to get involved on that basis so good on all of you I say.

 

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2 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Stuart I really don't know what your deal is with fan ownership and calling other St Mirren fans stupid.  SMISA have at no time said every single penny of the £2 discretionary fund would go to community projects and whereas it's a great thing to do the majority of fans have had their say.  To say fans are stupid for wanting to spend these funds on the player budget just isn't right.  It's a different opinion from yours that's it.  SMISA and St Mirren have done so many good things in the community and that will continue.  Right now we have to get ourselves out of this bottom of the league mess we're in. £10,000 is a drop in the ocean compared to what could be raised by the direct debit scheme.  

Get off your high horse about cancelling your membership and self righteous about how community orientated you are.  It's done now, fan ownership will happen, the money will go to the player budget and St Mirren & SMISA will learn together on the way with every single person having the best intentions of this club at heart.  You aren't better than anyone else and the way you've went about this forum (like so many others) you certainly aren't smarter than anyone else.  Take your £25 a month and do with it what you will but I'd suggest don't try and rip apart the team you (apparently) support in their attempt to get better and stronger as a fan owned club. 

Oh FFS, where to start! 

First off, I didn't set SMiSA up. I didn't register them as a Community Benefit Society, with legal obligations to the local community. I didn't write that I wanted to "put the club at the heart of the community", or publish on my website that they would "strengthen the bonds between the club and the community". I'm not the one applying for grants and funding for community based projects, or looking for community loans to fund my project. All of that was SMiSA's doing. They are the ones making false representations and they are the ones with the "director" who seems to think that the "community" being referred to in their legal obligation is the paid employees of a football club! :rolleyes:

Then there's the fact that this has been sold to the membership as something that had to happen to save St Mirren from relegation. Just to put this into context again for those that might have missed it - St Mirren have an annual turnover of £2.1m, £1.26m is paid out every year in wages, yet SMiSA want the membership to believe that a member donation to the club of £8,000 - £9,000 will be significant enough to achieve everything £1.26m per annum can't - and then you want to tell me that the SMISA membership isn't stupid for buying into that? How gullible are they when just a few months ago the fans of the club were in almost unilateral agreement that St Mirren FC should be living within it's means. 

I am a massive fan of fan ownership. I've seen many good examples of how competent committees have turned around the fortunes of their favourite football clubs. All, bar none, that have seen a significant turn around have done so BECAUSE of their close involvement with their local communities. Sadly I don't see that competence on the SMISA "board". 

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1 minute ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Then there's the fact that this has been sold to the membership as something that had to happen to save St Mirren from relegation. Just to put this into context again for those that might have missed it - St Mirren have an annual turnover of £2.1m, £1.26m is paid out every year in wages, yet SMiSA want the membership to believe that a member donation to the club of £8,000 - £9,000 will be significant enough to achieve everything £1.26m per annum can't - and then you want to tell me that the SMISA membership isn't stupid for buying into that? How gullible are they when just a few months ago the fans of the club were in almost unilateral agreement that St Mirren FC should be living within it's means.

The turnover of the business is actually £2.48m in the last accounts and the Wage bill is £1.16m. This is a ratio of 46% which is miles below the PWC ceiling recommendation of 60% in this industry. The club is prudently run on that basis.

The season will have 20 weeks left to run when the window opens on 1st Jan. So the £9K equates to around £450 p/w in additional funding for the managers budget. It's a small amount but it's additional budget he doesn't currently have at his disposal. If that means he can attract a better quality of player to the club, or if it means he has scope for adding another couple of hundred quid a week to entice the likes of Kyle McAllister to sign a new deal, then it's worth the punt at this current time in my, and 88% of the SMiSA members who voted, opinion.

Yes we should be living within our means, but these are extraordinary circumstances and quite frankly £9K will be a drop in the ocean if we wind up in the 3rd tier and the local community will actually be the hardest hit in that scenario.

 

 

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I should also say Stuart, that although I disagree with most of your posts, I do still value your contribution to the forum.

If, however, you continue to be abusive towards the entire St.Mirren support, on a St.Mirren supporters forum, then I will have no option but to remove your account.

By all means disagree with everyone, that is the point of having a forum, but repeatedly labelling the entire support "stupid" is becoming tiresome and offensive.

Respect that others have a different view to yourself, and debate without the insults. Please.

 

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2 minutes ago, div said:

The turnover of the business is actually £2.48m in the last accounts and the Wage bill is £1.16m. This is a ratio of 46% which is miles below the PWC ceiling recommendation of 60% in this industry. The club is prudently run on that basis.

The season will have 20 weeks left to run when the window opens on 1st Jan. So the £9K equates to around £450 p/w in additional funding for the managers budget. It's a small amount but it's additional budget he doesn't currently have at his disposal. If that means he can attract a better quality of player to the club, or if it means he has scope for adding another couple of hundred quid a week to entice the likes of Kyle McAllister to sign a new deal, then it's worth the punt at this current time in my, and 88% of the SMiSA members who voted, opinion.

Yes we should be living within our means, but these are extraordinary circumstances and quite frankly £9K will be a drop in the ocean if we wind up in the 3rd tier and the local community will actually be the hardest hit in that scenario.

 

 

OK, so if the club is prudently run, with a wage budget way below the PWC ceiling, why the f**k does it need to ask SMiSA and it's membership for a £9k donation to pay one player £450 per week to save the club from relegation? What level of mismanagement if going on in the new St Mirren Ltd club board to make this cash grab so essential? 

The truth is Div, this is exactly like t-shirt and towelgate. You've got a football club board who are so grasping, so greedy and so needy that they see the whole SMiSA operation as a way of extracting more money from the support. And you've got a SMISA "board" so desperate for credibility from the football club board that they have been willing to drop their pants and take a right good shafting, even to the extent of manipulating the vote by excluding any other suggestion for funding off the vote. 

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3 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

OK, so if the club is prudently run, with a wage budget way below the PWC ceiling, why the f**k does it need to ask SMiSA and it's membership for a £9k donation to pay one player £450 per week to save the club from relegation? What level of mismanagement if going on in the new St Mirren Ltd club board to make this cash grab so essential? 

The truth is Div, this is exactly like t-shirt and towelgate. You've got a football club board who are so grasping, so greedy and so needy that they see the whole SMiSA operation as a way of extracting more money from the support. And you've got a SMISA "board" so desperate for credibility from the football club board that they have been willing to drop their pants and take a right good shafting, even to the extent of manipulating the vote by excluding any other suggestion for funding off the vote. 

And you wonder why the club will not respond to your emails/calls....:blink:

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Just now, Stuart Dickson said:

OK, so if the club is prudently run, with a wage budget way below the PWC ceiling, why the f**k does it need to ask SMiSA and it's membership for a £9k donation to pay one player £450 per week to save the club from relegation? What level of mismanagement if going on in the new St Mirren Ltd club board to make this cash grab so essential? 

The truth is Div, this is exactly like t-shirt and towelgate. You've got a football club board who are so grasping, so greedy and so needy that they see the whole SMiSA operation as a way of extracting more money from the support. And you've got a SMISA "board" so desperate for credibility from the football club board that they have been willing to drop their pants and take a right good shafting, even to the extent of manipulating the vote by excluding any other suggestion for funding off the vote. 

I think we all appreciate the cashflow issues that football clubs have at certain points of the season.

The current board inherited a situation where the budget was spent, the management team was underperforming, the team was underperforming and the clubs infrastructure was suffering from neglect. It's been a perfect storm and I don't think they can realistically be judged on any sort of financial basis right now. There is no room for a honeymoon period but the new board need time to grow the clubs revenue, it ain't going to happen overnight.

In previous seasons, as the accounts have shown, the directors put their hand in their pocket and propped up the club with cash during the season, taking back funds when prize & TV money is paid out at the end of the season. This time around we don't have that option, so we're fire fighting using what funds we do have available.

I would concede that throwing money at the playing budget is a sign of desperation right now, but anyone looking at the current on field situation would realise that these are desperate times and desperate times call for desperate measures.

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14 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Oh FFS, where to start! 

First off, I didn't set SMiSA up. I didn't register them as a Community Benefit Society, with legal obligations to the local community. I didn't write that I wanted to "put the club at the heart of the community", or publish on my website that they would "strengthen the bonds between the club and the community". I'm not the one applying for grants and funding for community based projects, or looking for community loans to fund my project. All of that was SMiSA's doing. They are the ones making false representations and they are the ones with the "director" who seems to think that the "community" being referred to in their legal obligation is the paid employees of a football club! :rolleyes:

Then there's the fact that this has been sold to the membership as something that had to happen to save St Mirren from relegation. Just to put this into context again for those that might have missed it - St Mirren have an annual turnover of £2.1m, £1.26m is paid out every year in wages, yet SMiSA want the membership to believe that a member donation to the club of £8,000 - £9,000 will be significant enough to achieve everything £1.26m per annum can't - and then you want to tell me that the SMISA membership isn't stupid for buying into that? How gullible are they when just a few months ago the fans of the club were in almost unilateral agreement that St Mirren FC should be living within it's means. 

I am a massive fan of fan ownership. I've seen many good examples of how competent committees have turned around the fortunes of their favourite football clubs. All, bar none, that have seen a significant turn around have done so BECAUSE of their close involvement with their local communities. Sadly I don't see that competence on the SMISA "board". 

Okay your first paragraph, SMISA do lots for the community have you missed that? Are they applying for community grants/ loans whatever to line their pockets or give the money to our budget? Pretty sure the answer to that is no.  I'm pretty sure any community loan that was then used for a different purpose would be found out. They have a tough job on their hands but if you think any SMISA representative is getting a quick buck and taking the club for a ride would love to see your evidence for that. SMISA has a goal to strengthen the bonds between club and community but they also want the strongest most competitive St Mirren in the league.  They don't have to give every single penny to the community they can do both without 100% money going into community funds.  

They put it out to a vote to fans, what about this are you not getting? What isn't going in?  This wasn't SMISA this was a fan decision.  If you think any other option on that ballet would of won you are more delusional than it comes across on here.  On the budget, no one is saying this money is the be all and end all of our season what it's continuously been flagged as is a way to help.  Any funds that are available will help in bringing in player.  Whether this forms 100% 10% or 1% of the player budget for rest of the season who cares? Fans have spoken that they want to do everything in their power to help.  They've voted overwhelmingly.  What's your problem with that? If you think any fans believe this £9,000 will be the be all and end all of our season you are the biggest fool on this forum.  No one has said that, myself included believes we have a duty to follow the clubs wishes in whatever small way we can.  If you like figures how about this if we take an average of 1,300 paying fans a month that's £31,200 a year in the discretionary fund, £312,000 over the course of the buy-out. £9,000 of that is less than 3% of the overall funds that could be spent on community, improving the experiences of our vulnerable fans, funding grass routes and youth football.  yes £9,000 won't make a massive dent to a wage budget but it also isn't a massive dent on money that could be spent on the good of the club and local community. (again not SMISA's choice all use of the funds will be put to the vote) 

Fan ownership will work for St Mirren, SMISA have no power outside St Mirren fans and supporters of fan ownership.  They can make some local level decisions yes maybe, they can have someone on the board but bottom line is long term it will be the St Mirren fans that have the power to steer the club in the direction they want.  You've been exceptionally impatient, short sighted, put down your fellow fans and downright foolish in your unfounded criticism. Do you really think you're right, can see all the facts and everyone else is blind to big bad SMISA? My god what a world you must live in. 

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Just now, bazil85 said:

Okay your first paragraph, SMISA do lots for the community have you missed that? Are they applying for community grants/ loans whatever to line their pockets or give the money to our budget? Pretty sure the answer to that is no.  I'm pretty sure any community loan that was then used for a different purpose would be found out. They have a tough job on their hands but if you think any SMISA representative is getting a quick buck and taking the club for a ride would love to see your evidence for that. SMISA has a goal to strengthen the bonds between club and community but they also want the strongest most competitive St Mirren in the league.  They don't have to give every single penny to the community they can do both without 100% money going into community funds.  

They put it out to a vote to fans, what about this are you not getting? What isn't going in?  This wasn't SMISA this was a fan decision.  If you think any other option on that ballet would of won you are more delusional than it comes across on here.  On the budget, no one is saying this money is the be all and end all of our season what it's continuously been flagged as is a way to help.  Any funds that are available will help in bringing in player.  Whether this forms 100% 10% or 1% of the player budget for rest of the season who cares? Fans have spoken that they want to do everything in their power to help.  They've voted overwhelmingly.  What's your problem with that? If you think any fans believe this £9,000 will be the be all and end all of our season you are the biggest fool on this forum.  No one has said that, myself included believes we have a duty to follow the clubs wishes in whatever small way we can.  If you like figures how about this if we take an average of 1,300 paying fans a month that's £31,200 a year in the discretionary fund, £312,000 over the course of the buy-out. £9,000 of that is less than 3% of the overall funds that could be spent on community, improving the experiences of our vulnerable fans, funding grass routes and youth football.  yes £9,000 won't make a massive dent to a wage budget but it also isn't a massive dent on money that could be spent on the good of the club and local community. (again not SMISA's choice all use of the funds will be put to the vote) 

Fan ownership will work for St Mirren, SMISA have no power outside St Mirren fans and supporters of fan ownership.  They can make some local level decisions yes maybe, they can have someone on the board but bottom line is long term it will be the St Mirren fans that have the power to steer the club in the direction they want.  You've been exceptionally impatient, short sighted, put down your fellow fans and downright foolish in your unfounded criticism. Do you really think you're right, can see all the facts and everyone else is blind to big bad SMISA? My god what a world you must live in. 

You've answered him seriously, sensibly and comprehensively.  He will respond by raising different, irrelevant points, sadly.

2 minutes ago, antrin said:

Smisa's next money for the club should be to employ someone in a community capacity to respond to the Wishaw poster.

Gie's a job!  I could do that! :)

So I still think I'm the best person for the above job. :P

 

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