Dunfermline V St mirren (14th January)

[insaintee]

Ordinarily a point away to the dung is a decent performance.  Sure would prefer a win but. . . 

We've made good signings I think and cleared out a lot of dead wood, still some to go.

However, the problem we have is at the back. Langfield,Naismith, Gordon, Gallacher, Baird, Irvine, Webster and and Mckenzie have all had shockers at one time or other and we need to strengthen there.

I had hoped we'd got some on in to sort out the defence and a goalie is a major priority. Maybe Fjelde will play centerhalf but we need to strengthen there. It's cost us wins against Ayr, Morton and possibly again today. Tighter at the back could have turned recent defeats in to draws and draws into wins.  And that is how you get of bottom. 

Having said that we could do with a striker as well. 

Its a measure of what a mess Rae got us into that we've cleared out Hardie, Walsh, Shankland, Gallacher, and still would like to get rid of Clarkson, Webster, Langfield, Irvine, Hutton.

That's nine players we want to move on. 

Lets hope for more business next week. 

We're not down yet, but it is going to be tough. And players like Mallan, Morgan, Magenis, and McAllister need to be given the support they need. (from both on the field and from the supporters).

Toughen up guys!

 

 

[insaintee]

47 minutes ago, shull said:

Top Cat, Elvis  are all St Mirren Supporters.some of my best aliases

Simple as that.

 

 

[Hendo]

Anybody know why Webster was taken off day?

[proudtobeabuddy]

39 minutes ago, shull said:

dooper

Now i know what it means ya big jobby! ...i prefer "duper"

[northstbuddie]

We can all agree/agree to disagree on who is to blame for our current plight and, like the majority of Saints fans, I am far from happy with particular aspects of our performances this season. But how can persistent and unrelenting negativity contribute to a recovery in our fortunes this season?

For instance, I agree that shoring up our defence is the remaining priority during this transfer window but slagging off individuals in our current squad is not the best way of achieving that. We should be encouraging improved performances from those we perceive are falling short at present instead of cutting them to ribbons. That's the opposition's objective after all!

[Bobbyreid]

Was not at the game today but happy with a point and even more delighted by the influx of new personnel. Good to see Jack getting his own players in and I am positive they will make a difference, I was prematurely critical of TF last week for the lack of change so well done Tony & GS. I hear we had a great support at Dungfermline today that was much appreciated by the team and we all need to stick together and get right behind the boys from now until the end of the season.

Listened to the BBC podcast from last night with Jim G and Stephen Thompson . Jim Goodwin was abs brilliant, he is one of our own an absolute Saints LEGEND . And his point was that the experienced players need to take responsibility and start delivering

COYS

[DLBud]

Another correct score, should really start betting on these.

Yet another desperately poor day for us. Yet another week gone by without any meaningful inroads into the yawning gap between us and the pack. No ground at all made up on Ayr who had a more difficult game than us. Five games without a win now, this hopeless run starting after we had 'turned the corner' apparently.

Just the 1 point from 2 very winnable games against QOTS and Dunfermline. Not nearly enough for a team cut adrift at the bottom.

It's getting grimmer and grimmer by the week.

Yeah 5 games without a win but we won the two before that and if you look at form over the last 7 games we are stuck mid table. I'm pretty sure if we replicate that over the remainder of the season we'll give ourselves a chance of staying up and certainly avoiding bottom spot.

You say Ayr had a more difficult game yet we were playing the second best team (behind Hibs) on form over the last two months. Not sure how a point at the form team's own midden can be classed as "desperately poor" but then if you said "decent result" it wouldn't really suit your agenda would it?

[HSS]

4108 in attendance.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

49 minutes ago, DLBud said:

 

Yeah 5 games without a win but we won the two before that and if you look at form over the last 7 games we are stuck mid table. I'm pretty sure if we replicate that over the remainder of the season we'll give ourselves a chance of staying up and certainly avoiding bottom spot.

You say Ayr had a more difficult game yet we were playing the second best team (behind Hibs) on form over the last two months. Not sure how a point at the form team's own midden can be classed as "desperately poor" but then if you said "decent result" it wouldn't really suit your agenda would it?
 

 

Sorry this kind of thinking is classic bury your head in the sand delusional. If we begin counting our form over the last 7 games it coincides with our first win in the league all season and our last win of the season in the following match.  We have now equalled the points total QOTS were on after 5 league games today after our 21st league game. Our form has been so impressive in our last 7 games that despite QOTS not winning a game for 4 months and having a longer losing streak than ourselves they are still 12 points clear. 

Our last 7 results were:

Queen of the South 2 - St Mirren 3 (injury time winner)

St Mirren 1 - Raith Rovers 0

St Mirren 1 - Ayr United 1

Dundee United 2 - St Mirren 1

St Mirren 1 - Morton 1

St Mirren 0 - Queen of the South 3

Dunfermline 1 - St Mirren 1.

In those 7 games we have played the 3 teams in the league who have had worse form than us in the last 10 games... Queen of the South twice, Raith Rovers once and Ayr United once, we've twice been at home against teams with 10 men and drawn both times and only 2 of the teams were in the top half of the league at the start of their games with us. The sad reality is that while we continue to pick up points at our current rate Raith Rovers can go another 10 games without a win and not have to worry about us while we pickup just over a point a game, Queen of the South likewise, Dumbarton have increased the gap with ourselves in the same 7 games you refer to and we are catching Ayr United at a rate of 2 points in 10 games (while their winless streak continues). The only way we have any hope of finishing 8th or 9th is by stopping losing games (we've lost 5 out of our last 10) and starting to win around half of our games (our recent good form has seen us average a win every 10 games). We basically need to go on a Hibs-like run to stay up is the reality of where we are. We'll probably need 35-40 points to finish 9th and make the relegation play off. We require 22 -27 points in 15 games. If we repeat the form of the last 7 games over the next 15 games we'll get 18 points.

Being 7th or 8th in a form league over 7 games is of no consequence when you finish November on 4 points.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Dibbles old paperboy

[insaintee]

2 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Sorry this kind of thinking in bury your head in the sand delusional. If we begin counting our form over the last 7 games it coincides with our first win in the league all season and our last win of the season in the following match.  We have now equalled the points total QOTS were on after 5 league games today after our 21st league game. Our form has been so impressive in our last 7 games that despite QOTS not winning a game for 4 months and having a longer losing streak than ourselves they are still 12 points clear. 

Our last 7 results were:

Queen of the South 2 - St Mirren 3 (injury time winner)

St Mirren 1 - Raith Rovers 0

St Mirren 1 - Ayr United 1

Dundee United 2 - St Mirren 1

St Mirren 1 - Morton 1

St Mirren 0 - Queen of the South 3

Dunfermline 1 - St Mirren 1.

In those 7 games we have played the 3 teams in the league who have had worse form than us in the last 10 games... Queen of the South twice, Raith Rovers once and Ayr United once, we've twice been at home against teams with 10 men and drawn both times and only 2 of the teams were in the top half of the league at the start of their games with us. The sad reality is that while we continue to pick up points at our current rate Raith Rovers can go another 10 games without a win and not have to worry about us while we pickup just over a point a game, Queen of the South likewise, Dumbarton have increased the gap with ourselves in the same 7 games you refer to and we are catching Ayr United at a rate of 2 points in 10 games (while their winless streak continues). The only way we have any hope of finishing 8th or 9th is by stopping losing games (we've lost 5 out of our last 10) and starting to win around half of our games (our recent good form has seen us average a win every 10 games). We basically need to go on a Hibs-like run to stay up is the reality of where we are. We'll probably need 35-40 points to finish 9th and make the relegation play off. We require 22 -27 points in 15 games. If we repeat the form of the last 7 games over the next 15 games we'll get 18 points.

Executive summary:- Must do better.

[davidg]

15 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

If Ayr lose their next 5 games in a row and we win our next 3 league games we can overtake them on 25th February.

Ok.  

 

So we need 2 things that have never happened this season. 

 

Ayr to lose 5 on the bounce and Saints to win 3 in a row. 

Soup's great in Brechin though.....

Edited January 15, 2017 by davidg

[DLBud]

Sorry this kind of thinking is classic bury your head in the sand delusional. If we begin counting our form over the last 7 games it coincides with our first win in the league all season and our last win of the season in the following match.  We have now equalled the points total QOTS were on after 5 league games today after our 21st league game. Our form has been so impressive in our last 7 games that despite QOTS not winning a game for 4 months and having a longer losing streak than ourselves they are still 12 points clear. 
Our last 7 results were:
Queen of the South 2 - St Mirren 3 (injury time winner)
St Mirren 1 - Raith Rovers 0
St Mirren 1 - Ayr United 1
Dundee United 2 - St Mirren 1
St Mirren 1 - Morton 1
St Mirren 0 - Queen of the South 3
Dunfermline 1 - St Mirren 1.
In those 7 games we have played the 3 teams in the league who have had worse form than us in the last 10 games... Queen of the South twice, Raith Rovers once and Ayr United once, we've twice been at home against teams with 10 men and drawn both times and only 2 of the teams were in the top half of the league at the start of their games with us. The sad reality is that while we continue to pick up points at our current rate Raith Rovers can go another 10 games without a win and not have to worry about us while we pickup just over a point a game, Queen of the South likewise, Dumbarton have increased the gap with ourselves in the same 7 games you refer to and we are catching Ayr United at a rate of 2 points in 10 games (while their winless streak continues). The only way we have any hope of finishing 8th or 9th is by stopping losing games (we've lost 5 out of our last 10) and starting to win around half of our games (our recent good form has seen us average a win every 10 games). We basically need to go on a Hibs-like run to stay up is the reality of where we are. We'll probably need 35-40 points to finish 9th and make the relegation play off. We require 22 -27 points in 15 games. If we repeat the form of the last 7 games over the next 15 games we'll get 18 points.
Being 7th or 8th in a form league over 7 games is of no consequence when you finish November on 4 points.

What do you put injury time winner in brackets beside our first win but not mention the injury time equaliser we lost v Morton. Is there a difference?

[Ally]

A good performance and in the end a good point. Goes without saying that 3 points is what we're after, but given the context of the game and dunfermline's current run we could certainly have come away with worse. There's still time to turn this round although it's stating the obvious that it's still a very tough ask.

A lot of fight and hustle in the team today, the injuries didn't allow us to replace loy or in particular storie who were both blowing hard by the 75 min mark.

As someone has already stated the next 3 league games are massive.

[whydowebother]

Ok.  
 
So we need 2 things that have never happened this season. 
 
Ayr to lose 5 on the bounce and Saints to win 3 in a row. 
Soup's is great in Brechin......

Don't you be getting realistic , it'll be sin bin for dissent !

Unless you click like of course on anything Div posts , then you'll be ok ;)

Joking aside , you are indeed correct and for all the delusional fans , you really need to start working on the basis we have 3 games LESS than the rest above us, if we don't move into a position in the next 12 games ? The last 3 become irrelevant. ( Unless of course you feel like Div , who claims the Raith game would still be important regardless )

[proudtobeabuddy]

Jesus wept! Ok we're not in a good place! Shit happens potentially and we go down I'll still support my team and so will the "realistic" fans who are ultra distressed at our position. St Mirren will rise again.... when?! feck knows. But! .... we will! STMTID and I won't apologise for it!!!

[St.Ricky]

3 hours ago, Hendo said:

Anybody know why Webster was taken off day?

Hendo

No - But - I think it was tactical.

The game was fast and furious.

Younger legs.

Of course I may be wrong.

[JM1]

I enjoyed the game today. Thought we deserved a point and had we had more composure might've scored a second when Morgan was through at the end.

MacKenzie penalty challenge aside was great. Won everything in the air. Thought Storie looked a bit off the pace. Loy put in a good shift and Baird played well when he came on.

The bridie was amazing.

Edited January 15, 2017 by JM1

[Dibbles old paperboy]

1 hour ago, DLBud said:

 

What do you put injury time winner in brackets beside our first win but not mention the injury time equaliser we lost v Morton. Is there a difference?

 

Either team could have won that QOTS away game, thankfully we did with another of our last minute / injury time goals. Our first win of the season was from an injury time winner when QOTS had missed a few chances to win the game themselves. Against Raith we hung on for a battling 1-0 win. There was nothing unlucky about Morton's equaliser in injury time and no chances we created in the final 30 minutes where you could have said we could have won it decisively. In our 7 games showing midtable form our 2 wins we have both ridden our luck to get the wins.

If you want to look at our last 10 games form:

St Mirren 0 - Dumbarton 1 - another loss at home against a relegation rival in a must win game

St Mirren 0 - Dunfermline 1 - another loss at home against a relegation rival in a must win game

Falkirk 3 - St Mirren 1

and then the 7 results I listed earlier.

To move off 10th spot we need to overtake some of the teams above us, Dumbarton have started picking up points more often than we have. In the game I listed above between the teams we went into that 3 points behind and Dumbarton were in 9th position. After our run of good form which DL bud says will see us safe Dumbarton are the team who in 10 games have increased the gap by 5 points and moved up the league while we remain 10th and now have a 7 point gap to close and 10 less games to make up the difference. Still not worry after the Dumbarton defeat next up it was 9th placed Dunfermline at home and if we won that  the gap between us and them in 9th was down to 2 points again. In their last 10 games Dumferline have moved from 9th to 5th with 1 loss in 10, 4 wins and 5 draws.  

If we keep up our form from the last 10 games it is equally possible we could finish the season on around 25 points, meaning that Raith, QOTS, and Dunfermline could lose just about all their remaining games and stay up (When Raith play Dunfermline both teams can't lose).

The one team we realistically could catch are Ayr United, who went into the last 10 games, 10 points ahead of us in 7th place and that lead has been cut to 1 place and 7 points. It is pretty likely that at some point in the next few games Ayr will get their first win in ages.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

34 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Hendo

No - But - I think it was tactical.

The game was fast and furious.

Younger legs.

Of course I may be wrong.

Ross said in his post match interview that all the substitutions were down to injuries. He said in Webster's case it was more of an illness than an injury and the knocks to Quinn and McAllister didn't seem to be too serious.

[David Mc]

Either team could have won that QOTS away game, thankfully we did with another of our last minute / injury time goals. Our first win of the season was from an injury time winner when QOTS had missed a few chances to win the game themselves. Against Raith we hung on for a battling 1-0 win. There was nothing unlucky about Morton's equaliser in injury time and no chances we created in the final 30 minutes where you could have said we could have won it decisively. In our 7 games showing midtable form our 2 wins we have both ridden our luck to get the wins.
If you want to look at our last 10 games form:
St Mirren 0 - Dumbarton 1 - another loss at home against a relegation rival in a must win game
St Mirren 0 - Dunfermline 1 - another loss at home against a relegation rival in a must win game
Falkirk 3 - St Mirren 1
and then the 7 results I listed earlier.
To move off 10th spot we need to overtake some of the teams above us, Dumbarton have started picking up points more often than we have. In the game I listed above between the teams we went into that 3 points behind and Dumbarton were in 9th position. After our run of good form which DL bud says will see us safe Dumbarton are the team who in 10 games have increased the gap by 5 points and moved up the league while we remain 10th and now have a 7 point gap to close and 10 less games to make up the difference. Still not worry after the Dumbarton defeat next up it was 9th placed Dunfermline at home and if we won that  the gap between us and them in 9th was down to 2 points again. In their last 10 games Dumferline have moved from 9th to 5th with 1 loss in 10, 4 wins and 5 draws.  
If we keep up our form from the last 10 games it is equally possible we could finish the season on around 25 points, meaning that Raith, QOTS, and Dunfermline could lose just about all their remaining games and stay up (When Raith play Dunfermline both teams can't lose).
The one team we realistically could catch are Ayr United, who went into the last 10 games, 10 points ahead of us in 7th place and that lead has been cut to 1 place and 7 points. It is pretty likely that at some point in the next few games Ayr will get their first win in ages.

Regardless of how well argued this is or not why on earth would Ayr be the only team we can realistically catch when Dumbarton are only one point ahead of them?

[Dibbles old paperboy]

9 minutes ago, David Mc said:

Regardless of how well argued this is or not why on earth would Ayr be the only team we can realistically catch when Dumbarton are only one point ahead of them?

A fair question, The point I made in the body of the previous post is 10 games ago Dumbarton were 9th and 3 points ahead of us and up against us at Greenhill Road and we had the chance to go level with them on points and begin climbing the league. Instead we lost the game and in the next 9 games Dumbarton have increased the gap from between them and us from 3 points to 8 points and they have been the team moving up in the league while we've stayed 10th for ever game since we went bottom of the league in September.

We have two vital league games in February, away to Dumbarton on 4th, and away to Ayr on 25th.

[DLBud]

Either team could have won that QOTS away game, thankfully we did with another of our last minute / injury time goals. Our first win of the season was from an injury time winner when QOTS had missed a few chances to win the game themselves. Against Raith we hung on for a battling 1-0 win. There was nothing unlucky about Morton's equaliser in injury time and no chances we created in the final 30 minutes where you could have said we could have won it decisively. In our 7 games showing midtable form our 2 wins we have both ridden our luck to get the wins.
If you want to look at our last 10 games form:
St Mirren 0 - Dumbarton 1 - another loss at home against a relegation rival in a must win game
St Mirren 0 - Dunfermline 1 - another loss at home against a relegation rival in a must win game
Falkirk 3 - St Mirren 1
and then the 7 results I listed earlier.
To move off 10th spot we need to overtake some of the teams above us, Dumbarton have started picking up points more often than we have. In the game I listed above between the teams we went into that 3 points behind and Dumbarton were in 9th position. After our run of good form which DL bud says will see us safe Dumbarton are the team who in 10 games have increased the gap by 5 points and moved up the league while we remain 10th and now have a 7 point gap to close and 10 less games to make up the difference. Still not worry after the Dumbarton defeat next up it was 9th placed Dunfermline at home and if we won that  the gap between us and them in 9th was down to 2 points again. In their last 10 games Dumferline have moved from 9th to 5th with 1 loss in 10, 4 wins and 5 draws.  
If we keep up our form from the last 10 games it is equally possible we could finish the season on around 25 points, meaning that Raith, QOTS, and Dunfermline could lose just about all their remaining games and stay up (When Raith play Dunfermline both teams can't lose).
The one team we realistically could catch are Ayr United, who went into the last 10 games, 10 points ahead of us in 7th place and that lead has been cut to 1 place and 7 points. It is pretty likely that at some point in the next few games Ayr will get their first win in ages.

f**k sake mate you don't half like your rambling emails don't you? You could have just said there was no difference.[emoji3]

[southsidebud]

13 hours ago, Hendo said:

Anybody know why Webster was taken off day?

I don't know...

Maybe because he's not very good?

[pozbaird]

11 hours ago, davidg said:

Soup's great in Brechin though.....

 

It's far better in Arbroath.

[antrin]

Everything's currently better in Arbroath.