Jack Ross Must Go.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

2 hours ago, scottd said:

I respectfully disagree.  Can't believe the amount of love for Rae, it's like the Gus v Danny debate again except that those supporting Gus were backing a guy with a very good record to defend.

Suggesting we were hasty in ditching Rae or pointing out his results record during his time was decent doesn't have to equate with having a huge amount of love for him or his style of football.

[Kendo]

Just now, TopCat said:

 

How do you know how much input he had?

Maybe you're right and he had a huge say. Maybe he had no say at all. The only people who know how big a say he had are him and DL.

If he was responsible for bringing Dummet and Newton to the club we all owe him a huge thank you!

 

Yes if he had anything to with those players coming then yes he did well. However once he took the reigns of a club where he must have known the strengths and weaknesses he didn't exactly tackle them.

JR would appear to have had a real go at gutting out the deadwood and we will now see whether it works or not. Even you must agree he's replaced the players you hated.

[Drew]

1 hour ago, TopCat said:

Was it too early to tag TC as the wrong man?

Er, no.

The day he was appointed was precisely the correct point at which to tag Craig as the wrong man.

[Kendo]

8 minutes ago, Drew said:

Er, no.

The day he was appointed was precisely the correct point at which to tag Craig as the wrong man.

No strongly disagree, we knew long before he was appointed that he was the wrong man. 

[TsuMirren]

Er, no.
The day he was appointed was precisely the correct point at which to tag Craig as the wrong man.

Appointed as assistant. It was an absolutely unthinkable appointment, which made no sense whatsoever. Even as an interim knowing the English group would want their own man, why give him a two year deal?

[YardleyBoom]

The way I see it is in a way we've really been managed by Rae all season as its been his hopeless mob of players we've had to use up until now. Now we have a Jack Ross team who already look a million times better than Rae's team.

I think this is why a lot of fans have been so understanding despite our league position. A lot of us realise the club was left in an absolute mess by TC, the Gary Teale carry on and latterly Rae and the board who had given up. We realised that because of this we may be relegated. Our current league position is not Ross's fault. I know ill get pelters for saying that but it really isnt. All ive seen since he came in and the new board came in is total positivity, much better football and tbh we havent lost that many games albeit a lot of draws. 

Ross has tried his best up until now to get us points with Rae's team and at times has very nearly done well with very poor resources ie last minute goal against Morton, Langfield passing straight to Dumbartons striker to lose us the game etc

This is now the time to start judging Ross. He is now in full control of things and hasn't exactly made a bad start to his "full control" tenure. We probably should've won away at dumbarton, we're into the Scottish cup quarter after a very tricky away win at east fife and we've just won 4-1 at home to reach a cup final. Yes our league position is more than worrying but I believe just about all of this is down to what preceded Jack Ross and I also believe we're starting to see the beginnings of a very good outfit with our new players. I for one am enjoying going to games again at the minute. Something I haven't said since Danny Lennon was in charge.

Perhaps people are so quick to jump on his back because they were desperate for Gus to come back! Seems to be we have a divide in the support. Those who support Ross and Gus men who also wanted Lennon out.

I really hope Ross proves me right but if given time and backing I reckon we could have a bit of a gem here. Going by how he's turned our squad around in a matter of weeks and brought in players as good as McGinn, cammy smith, Davis etc I reckon this guy knows what he's doing and will entertain us at the same time.

We are well known for jumping in too soon and sacking good managers then looking back at how foolish we've been. Just look at alex ferguson and Danny Lennon. Don't do it again!!

[faraway saint]

Previous managers, and their records, don't matter one bit, it's now that's important.

Last night was quite amusing in here, both sides getting a bit excited but it's not about Ross against anyone for me, it's here and now that matters.

The expectation when Ross was appointed was high, but even with the "it's not his players" argument he has been disappointing.

You only have to look as far back as the first half on Saturday to see how many supporters felt about the team, selection etc. (Short memory syndrome seems to be rife )

We are almost at the point of no return, this Saturday is a REAL must win.

Anything less and relegation is almost ours.

I'm sure everyone at the club will realise this and we need to get off to a fast start, get on top and, more importantly, score before Ayr.

If we win then we can have some hope.

Exciting.

[Kendo]

4 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Previous managers, and their records, don't matter one bit, it's now that's important.

Last night was quite amusing in here, both sides getting a bit excited but it's not about Ross against anyone for me, it's here and now that matters.

The expectation when Ross was appointed was high, but even with the "it's not his players" argument he has been disappointing.

You only have to look as far back as the first half on Saturday to see how many supporters felt about the team, selection etc. (Short memory syndrome seems to be rife )

We are almost at the point of no return, this Saturday is a REAL must win.

Anything less and relegation is almost ours.

I'm sure everyone at the club will realise this and we need to get off to a fast start, get on top and, more importantly, score before Ayr.

If we win then we can have some hope.

Exciting.

Three things we didn't play on Saturday, second when we played we won 4-1. Not many expected that. Lastly he now has options to change things with quality players in midfield.

[faraway saint]

Just now, Kendo said:

Three things we didn't play on Saturday, second when we played we won 4-1. Not many expected that. Lastly he now has options to change things with quality players in midfield.

Oh, ok, focus on the Saturday/Sunday thing, ignore the first half on SUNDAY and keep saying we have options.

Sounds like you play too many computer games.

Me, I'm just hoping we can win a few real games.

[munoz]

With our one of our most important games in many a year this Saturday , I find it very odd that this seems to be a busy thread , as opposed to the Ayr match day thread . Perhaps some just can't wait to sharpen their knives .

[faraway saint]

6 minutes ago, munoz said:

With our one of our most important games in many a year this Saturday , I find it very odd that this seems to be a busy thread , as opposed to the Ayr match day thread . Perhaps some just can't wait to sharpen their knives .

I agree, and there's much more interest in the upcoming cup final which, IMO, means much less than Saturday and the remaining league games.

Funny that.

[Soctty]

11 hours ago, TopCat said:

 

 

Why aren't they comparable?

TC got two league wins, JR has two league wins. Their records are remarkably similar.

The main difference being TC got his wins at a higher level and wasn't up against part time teams, of course.

 

 

Manager A took over a squad that finished 8th in the Premiership (our best league position in over quarter of a century), 14 months after a major trophy win. Manager B took over a squad bottom of the Championship (out worst league position ever), which had been in serious freefall since manager A's tenure.

 

 

That's why the two aren't comparable. If you need any more help, just ask.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Soctty

[Bud the Baker]

20 minutes ago, Soctty said:

Manager A took over a squad that finished 8th in the Premiership (our best league position in over quarter of a century), 14 months after a major trophy win. Manager B took over a squad bottom of the Championship (out worst league position ever), which had been in serious freefall since manager A's tenure.

 

 

That's why the two aren't comparable. If you need any more help, just ask.

How long does JR's free ride last?

Do you have any minimum requirements for the rest of the season?

What about next season?

[faraway saint]

8 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

How long does JR's free ride last?

Do you have any minimum requirements for the rest of the season?

What about next season?

This is what puzzles me.

People were eager to get rid of previous managers, some deserved, some not, but JR seems to have a following who are in a trance while we slip to our worst league situation for many a long year.

Our precarious league position is THE most important thing for the club, not JR.

It seems people are quite willing to go down and cross their fingers he brings us up next season.

That's some fecking gamble.

[Lord Pityme]

I think i have got a handle on this now... TC and AR both had pre-seasons before getting sacked, AR after only six league games.

Ross has had no pre-season, but twenty three league games and two league wins in his six month tenure. But somehow he isn't responsible for any of this, except when we win a game then its "his" players that were the difference.

is that about right? The only problem I have with that synopsis is the two league games we have won with Ross were with the players all and sundry insist were no use, that he jettisoned, as yet his pick have only let us down.

Now who were the starting eleven in those two games, those guys got two on the bounce!

as its Humpday... time to look forward now to The Big Hobbit match this weekend.... "The Battle Of The Shires"

[Bud the Baker]

6 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

This is what puzzles me.

People were eager to get rid of previous managers, some deserved, some not, but JR seems to have a following who are in a trance while we slip to our worst league situation for many a long year.

Our precarious league position is THE most important thing for the club, not JR.

It seems people are quite willing to go down and cross their fingers he brings us up next season.

That's some fecking gamble.

Well yeah, realistically everyone has a bottom line on the situation - even GS!

I'm pretty sure Drew said "top of Div 1 by Xmas if we go down", it's an open question to the guys who are criticizing my position that there ought to be some minimum requirements for the rest of the season.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Bud the Baker

[Lord Pityme]

3 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Well yeah, realistically everyone has a bottom line on the situation - even GS!

I'm pretty sure Drew said "top of Div 1 by Xmas if we go down", it's an open question to the guys who are criticizing my position that there ought to be some minimum requirements for the rest of the season.

This exactly!

otherwise the apparent message to Ross and the squad is it doesn't matter if you fail miserably, we have no plan to manage your performance so you have got a job next season no matter how badly you perform. This approach is going from one extreme of sacking a manager after six games, to the other extreme of 'we are not really bothered how poorly he performs, and how much budget he squanders, even if he relegates us and instigates a massive drop in revenue".....

where's the feckin plan there..?

[Kendo]

In my opinion it would be completely wrong to sack a manager who has just spent a whole month assembling a team that hasn't had time to prove one way or another if he has got it right. Early signs point to perhaps he has got it right, victory over Dundee at Dens and the 4-1 semifinal victory gives us some hope.

Is this the time to change a manager? No, not for me, I'm not saying that JR is the right man for the job, I personally wanted Gus. However he has just assembled his own squad and he needs time to see if that squad can deliver. Surely he deserves that chance.

 

[Bud the Baker]

1 minute ago, Kendo said:

In my opinion it would be completely wrong to sack a manager who has just spent a whole month assembling a team that hasn't had time to prove one way or another if he has got it right. Early signs point to perhaps he has got it right, victory over Dundee at Dens and the 4-1 semifinal victory gives us some hope.

Is this the time to change a manager? No, not for me, I'm not saying that JR is the right man for the job, I personally wanted Gus. However he has just assembled his own squad and he needs time to see if that squad can deliver. Surely he deserves that chance.

 

Could you be any more vague?

[Kendo]

5 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

This exactly!

otherwise the apparent message to Ross and the squad is it doesn't matter if you fail miserably, we have no plan to manage your performance so you have got a job next season no matter how badly you perform. This approach is going from one extreme of sacking a manager after six games, to the other extreme of 'we are not really bothered how poorly he performs, and how much budget he squanders, even if he relegates us and instigates a massive drop in revenue".....

where's the feckin plan there..?

The plan was to allow the manager to bring in his players and see how he gets on, was it not? 

That's how I see it.

[Kendo]

1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said:

Could you be any more vague?

What's vague about saying in my opinion it would be completely wrong to sack the manager? 

[Bud the Baker]

Just now, Kendo said:

What's vague about saying in my opinion it would be completely wrong to sack the manager? 

You said

Quote

 However he has just assembled his own squad and he needs time to see if that squad can deliver.

How much time and deliver what?

[ged62]

  The most important relationship at any club is that between the chairman and the manager, and I'm led to believe that the relationship between Rae and Scott was non existent.  After Scott took over it was just a matter of time before Rae was removed.  Maybe if SMiSA hadn't pushed for the takeover then Gilmour would still be chairman and Lord Pityme would still have his man Rae in charge.  Be careful what you wish for and all that.[emoji3]

So lets just keep someone in a job because the chairman has clicked with him[emoji6]
I like JR & hope he succeeds but if he dosent like any other manager the bucks stops at him .

[DougJamie]

15 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

It's actually less than 30%, not 35%

Whatever

[Soctty]

How long does JR's free ride last?
Do you have any minimum requirements for the rest of the season?
What about next season?

My requirements for the rest of the season is that we perform well, and win games. As long as I see progress in the play of the team and results, I'm happy for Ross to continue.

We've lost once since he gutted the squad, and are unbeaten since he got the new central defender, left back and right back in the team, which is what I'm looking at now.

Things are looking brighter in my opinion, and should only improve as the team has more time together.