Jack Ross Must Go.

[DLBud]

Its a funny old game!
at the start of the season we had most posters including your truly believing that the squad assembled was good enough to compete for promotion in this league. One manager got his jotters for getting three points out of his first six games, the new manager lost six on the bounce with the squad we all believed could compete.
in January there is a turnover of 20 players, most of the outgoing (the squad we liked pre season) went on to clubs in a better league, or league position to us and we are still the basement club, but some of us make the nonsensical statement .... " if Jack Ross was here at the start of the season with his current squad we would be fighting for promotion" 
how does that work? Other than it just isnt reality because it never happened, how does it make sense? A number of the January signings (through their own performances) are already proving to be surplus to requirements. Fyelde, Storey, Todd, Stelios and Loy (when he isnt getting a penalty that should have gone to Mallan or McGinn).
add to that since its been 'Jack's Squad' we have lost to QoS, Raith, Falkirk and dropped points against Dunfermline twice, and Dumbarton. Not promotion form in anyones book surely? We have picked up more wins and clean sheets, but we are still inconsistent and vulnerable when pressured. Getting a relegation play off spot would now be a real achievement... how many predicted that back in early August?

So we're supposed to win every game to prove Ross might be the right man to lead the club? That's absurd.

As far as the players he's brought in go he's not going to play all ten of them is he? You don't think there's a place in the side for Irvine, McKenzie, Mallan, Magennis, Morgan or Sutton? Should he play the new guys just because they're new? What if some of them were brought in as squad players?

Vulnerable when pressured? What a load of shite. Every game has been a "cup final" since the Ayr match and they've responded to that pressure with 4 wins a draw and a defeat. Outside of the Raith game, played on a truly shitty pitch, they've played very well with pace, power, goals and clean sheets.

We've given ourselves a real shot at staying up and, for most of us, the games are pretty enjoyable for the first time in a long while yet some still can't just get behind them without the pointless criticism.

If we don't manage to survive you'll have your day in the sun and can tell us all how you saw it coming but I genuinely don't get why you can't just enjoy how it's all coming along right now?

[Soctty]

20 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Its a funny old game!

at the start of the season we had most posters including your truly believing that the squad assembled was good enough to compete for promotion in this league. One manager got his jotters for getting three points out of his first six games, the new manager lost six on the bounce with the squad we all believed could compete.

in January there is a turnover of 20 players, most of the outgoing (the squad we liked pre season) went on to clubs in a better league, or league position to us and we are still the basement club, but some of us make the nonsensical statement .... " if Jack Ross was here at the start of the season with his current squad we would be fighting for promotion" 

how does that work? Other than it just isnt reality because it never happened, how does it make sense? A number of the January signings (through their own performances) are already proving to be surplus to requirements. Fyelde, Storey, Todd, Stelios and Loy (when he isnt getting a penalty that should have gone to Mallan or McGinn).

add to that since its been 'Jack's Squad' we have lost to QoS, Raith, Falkirk and dropped points against Dunfermline twice, and Dumbarton. Not promotion form in anyones book surely? We have picked up more wins and clean sheets, but we are still inconsistent and vulnerable when pressured. Getting a relegation play off spot would now be a real achievement... how many predicted that back in early August?

"It isn't reality because it never happened" - no, it's a supposition. An opinion.

 

January signings proving to be surplus to requirements? Stelio and Loy in that list is bizarre, 5 goals in 12 starts between them, Loy started on Saturday, Stelios been carrying a knock, but it makes for something to have a go at the manager about so you plod on regardless... Not everyone will play every week, with 10 coming into the squad which already contained Mallan, Morgan, McKenzie Sutton and Magennis. A good squad with competition for places is a good thing, unless you're looking for negatives I suppose...

 

Since it's been Jack's squad (end of January) we've lost to Celtic and Raith. You're bringing in the QoS game at St Mirren Park where there were no Ross signings at all? The Falkirk one I'd concede, although we still had Davis, Stelios and Eckersley to come in and tighten up the back four after that match.

 

If you seriously don't see a big improvement since the end of the transfer window, after Jack had done all his business I'd venture that you had a bit of an agenda at play, although I'm sure that's not true...

Edited March 21, 2017 by Soctty

[Lord Pityme]

11 hours ago, DLBud said:

 

So we're supposed to win every game to prove Ross might be the right man to lead the club? That's absurd.

As far as the players he's brought in go he's not going to play all ten of them is he? You don't think there's a place in the side for Irvine, McKenzie, Mallan, Magennis, Morgan or Sutton? Should he play the new guys just because they're new? What if some of them were brought in as squad players?

Vulnerable when pressured? What a load of shite. Every game has been a "cup final" since the Ayr match and they've responded to that pressure with 4 wins a draw and a defeat. Outside of the Raith game, played on a truly shitty pitch, they've played very well with pace, power, goals and clean sheets.

We've given ourselves a real shot at staying up and, for most of us, the games are pretty enjoyable for the first time in a long while yet some still can't just get behind them without the pointless criticism.

If we don't manage to survive you'll have your day in the sun and can tell us all how you saw it coming but I genuinely don't get why you can't just enjoy how it's all coming along right now?
 

 

You are certainly wrong about me wishing bad things to happen to the team i have supported for fifty years. Nothing could be further from the truth. But you do underline the growing hatred/resentment being stirred up amongst saints fans against anyone who dares to point to the facts. We are bottom of the league becuse uptil now we are the worst team in the league.

if you fail to acknowledge/admit your current state, how the hell can you plan to move towards your desired future state..?

as regards winning games, no we are not going to win every game, but the ones we have failed to do so recently against teams around us are the ones that count most. We win, plus they get no points... a double whammy, a chance to move up a position.

the real and present problem for us now is the fact we only have a couple of our last seven games against those around us. So our chances to hurt them are greatly reduced. Beating Hibs and Dundee Utd was great, without those points we may already have been doomed, however if we could have swapped those wins for the loss to Raith and draws to Dunfermline and Dumbarton, coupled with our win at Ayr we would already be off the bottom..!

Think about that for a minute... winning against the teams around us hurts them that much, and helps us so much. Raith pressured us (playing on the same shitty pitch) and we folded, Celtic eventually pressured us and we folded, QoS pressured us and we folded, as did Falkirk. 

I do find it interesting you highlighting Irvine, McKenzie, Mallan, Magennis, Morgan and Sutton as contributing so much to our recent results and performances, I would add Baird when called upon to that group too... seven players who have kept or won postions from the ten who came in..! What does that tell us of the success of the January recruitment frenzy?

I would say that by and large we had the players, quality and talent all along, with McGinn and Davis and to a lesser extent Smith adding to that.

I do love the often big "I dont really have the courage of my convictions line" given in your post and several others where you say, myself and others who can actually read the team, performances and achievements will somehow be happy if we are relegated...

what a load of shit... relegation would cripple us, I can see that and want to avoid it. I do believe though we have gone about avoiding it in the wrong way, hence we are still bottom and hoping whilst we are otherwise engaged this Saturday, Ayr dont beat Dumbarton or get a result against Dundee Utd.

p.s. Dunno why you made it about Jack Ross, does he need defending?

[BuddieinEK]

The players coming in have created genuine competition for places resulting in improved performances from the players who were already here.

[Lord Pityme]

1 minute ago, BuddieinEK said:

The players coming in have created genuine competition for places resulting in improved performances from the players who were already here.

Well if a number of the new recruits aren't/werent good enough to get the jersey wouldnt it have been a more cost effective option just to get cardboard cut outs or holograms of them at Ralston. Surely that 'perceived' competition for places would have gee'd the lads up..?

[DLBud]

You are absolutely f**king deluded. In the space of roughly 10 paragraphs you've twisted your own ramblings, made new points not in your original post, ignored the points I made, inferred quotes by me that I didn't make and finally asked why it was about Jack in a thread about.........Jack that you posted in criticising........Jack.

Just stop it.

[Soctty]

10 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Well if a number of the new recruits aren't/werent good enough to get the jersey wouldnt it have been a more cost effective option just to get cardboard cut outs or holograms of them at Ralston. Surely that 'perceived' competition for places would have gee'd the lads up..?

Fjelde is the only one who doesn't seem to have fitted in. Hasn't had a go in his favoured positionin defensive midfield, but that might be as much to do with the form of McGinn and Magennis as anything, with Storie also filling in on occasion. Storie has similarly been kept out mainly by Magennis and McGinn - who as captain is unlikely to be dropped lightly.

 

That leaves Loy and Stelios, who have both contributed to the cause and will both feature heavily in the games to come I'm sure. When making ten new signings, it's to be expected that not all will be a success. Indeed, 50% being a success is about the average. Why trawl for negatives that aren't there?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

10 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Well if a number of the new recruits aren't/werent good enough to get the jersey wouldnt it have been a more cost effective option just to get cardboard cut outs or holograms of them at Ralston. Surely that 'perceived' competition for places would have gee'd the lads up..?

We are not the worst team in the league on from since end of January due to a large change of personal which you fail to grasp. If we survive our position in the championship it will be a remarkable achievement. Some how I can't see you and Topcat getting that. 

[Lord Pityme]

43 minutes ago, DLBud said:

You are absolutely f**king deluded. In the space of roughly 10 paragraphs you've twisted your own ramblings, made new points not in your original post, ignored the points I made, inferred quotes by me that I didn't make and finally asked why it was about Jack in a thread about.........Jack that you posted in criticising........Jack.

Just stop it.

You could have just put your hands up, no shame in that.

[Soctty]

I'll say it again. Since Jack got his squad assembled - as of 31st January - we've looked a different team. We've won 6, drawn 2 and lost 2. 19 goals scored, 10 conceded - 4 of them against Celtic. One of the defeats was against the best team in the country by an incredible distance, and we did manage to hold our own for quite some time against them. The Raith game was the one big disappointment for me, and we responded to it by taking 7 points from our next 9 available.

 

We've beaten the two biggest teams with the biggest budgets in the league in that run. We've also beaten our closest rivals at the bottom, away from home.

 

Anyone who cannot see the positive difference between the team Jack has assembled and the one he inherited either has a calculated agenda, or is utterly clueless.

 

 

[Lord Pityme]

37 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

We are not the worst team in the league on from since end of January due to a large change of personal which you fail to grasp. If we survive our position in the championship it will be a remarkable achievement. Some how I can't see you and Topcat getting that. 

On form we are bottom of the league, i.e. The worst perfoming team in the league up until now. 

if we survive i will be over the moon, cant speak for Topcat, maybe officer Dibble can call by his trash can and ask?

Edited March 21, 2017 by Lord Pityme

[Lord Pityme]

3 minutes ago, Soctty said:

I'll say it again. Since Jack got his squad assembled - as of 31st January - we've looked a different team. We've won 6, drawn 2 and lost 2. 19 goals scored, 10 conceded - 4 of them against Celtic. One of the defeats was against the best team in the country by an incredible distance, and we did manage to hold our own for quite some time against them. The Raith game was the one big disappointment for me, and we responded to it by taking 7 points from our next 9 available.

 

We've beaten the two biggest teams with the biggest budgets in the league in that run. We've also beaten our closest rivals at the bottom, away from home.

 

Anyone who cannot see the positive difference between the team Jack has assembled and the one he inherited either has a calculated agenda, or is utterly clueless.

 

 

The only fly in your ointment is that relegation, promotion and league finishes are judged across a whole season, if we move up a place, or with Allah's blessing more than one place before the end of the season we can all rejoice.

its not how we started, its how and where we finish!

[faraway saint]

12 minutes ago, Soctty said:

I'll say it again. Since Jack got his squad assembled - as of 31st January - we've looked a different team. We've won 6, drawn 2 and lost 2. 19 goals scored, 10 conceded - 4 of them against Celtic. One of the defeats was against the best team in the country by an incredible distance, and we did manage to hold our own for quite some time against them. The Raith game was the one big disappointment for me, and we responded to it by taking 7 points from our next 9 available.

 

We've beaten the two biggest teams with the biggest budgets in the league in that run. We've also beaten our closest rivals at the bottom, away from home.

 

Anyone who cannot see the positive difference between the team Jack has assembled and the one he inherited either has a calculated agenda, or is utterly clueless.

 

 

There's no doubt we have improved dramatically "since the end of January" but to utterly discount the games before is slanting the argument, as you do at every opportunity.

Also, again, you, rightly mention we've beaten two teams with the biggest budget but fail to mention Dundee United are on the crest of a slump, and they are getting beaten by almost everyone, again a slanted view.

Importantly we are hitting form with, hopefully, enough games remaining.

If we survive, by any means, the manager and players deserve every credit.

If we don't the manager and players deserve to be assessed and we move on.

Again, you call people clueless for differing, your arse must be aching from galloping around on that high horse.

Edited March 21, 2017 by faraway saint

[Soctty]

Just now, Lord Pityme said:

The only fly in your ointment is that relegation, promotion and league finishes are judged across a whole season, if we move up a place, or with Allah's blessing more than one place before the end of the season we can all rejoice.

its not how we started, its how and where we finish!

There's no fly, because there is no ointment. Our form at the moment - coincidentally since Jack got his own team together - has been that of a team that would challenge at the top end of the table. We're all aware that it is only a ten game stretch we're measuring here, and that a season is 36 league games, but I do think a ten game spell is enough to allow people to extrapolate those results further. Come the end of the season, we'll only have played 18 games - half a season's worth - with this new squad in place.

 

Would that be enough to make some sort of estimate as to how this squad would do over a whole season, or do you want estimates only to be made once we've seen the actual results over a whole season? This would of course remove the word "estimate" from the whole equation, extinguishing a little avenue of enjoyment from all our online ramblings, so I'm sure you'd be happy...

[Soctty]

2 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

There's no doubt we have improved dramatically "since the end of January" but to utterly discount the games before is slanting the argument, as you do at every opportunity.

Also, again, you, rightly mention we've beaten two teams with the biggest budget but fail to mention Dundee United are on the crest of a slump, and they are getting beaten by almost everyone, again a slanted view.

Importantly we are hitting form with, hopefully, enough games remaining.

If we survive, by any means, the manager and players deserve every credit.

If we don't the manager and players deserve to be assessed and we move on.

Again, you call people clueless for differing, your arse must be aching form galloping around on that high horse.

Slanting the argument? You mean comparing the results before he got his own squad in place with those after he got his own squad in place? A comparison is by it's very nature a slanted view of two alternate situations. 

Mentioning we've beaten the two biggest teams with the biggest budgets isn't allowed either? I'm beginning to realise who it is that has the slanted view here - whatever the f**k that is...

I haven't called anyone clueless - you should perhaps go back to school. English would be the first port of call, specifically reading and understanding...

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, Soctty said:

Slanting the argument? You mean comparing the results before he got his own squad in place with those after he got his own squad in place? A comparison is by it's very nature a slanted view of two alternate situations. 

Mentioning we've beaten the two biggest teams with the biggest budgets isn't allowed either? I'm beginning to realise who it is that has the slanted view here - whatever the f**k that is...

I haven't called anyone clueless - you should perhaps go back to school. English would be the first port of call, specifically reading and understanding...

[Callum Gilhooley]

4 minutes ago, Soctty said:

Slanting the argument? You mean comparing the results before he got his own squad in place with those after he got his own squad in place? A comparison is by it's very nature a slanted view of two alternate situations. 

Mentioning we've beaten the two biggest teams with the biggest budgets isn't allowed either? I'm beginning to realise who it is that has the slanted view here - whatever the f**k that is...

I haven't called anyone clueless - you should perhaps go back to school. English would be the first port of call, specifically reading and understanding...

Psst !!    I think you did !! 

[Soctty]

Just now, Callum Gilhooley said:

Psst !!    I think you did !! 

I said that anyone who can't see the positive difference between the team Jack has assembled and the one he inherited either has a calculated agenda, or is utterly clueless.

Unless anyone has stated that they can't see the positive difference between the team he assembled and the one he inherited, then I haven't called anyone clueless.

[Callum Gilhooley]

1 minute ago, Soctty said:

I said that anyone who can't see the positive difference between the team Jack has assembled and the one he inherited either has a calculated agenda, or is utterly clueless.

Unless anyone has stated that they can't see the positive difference between the team he assembled and the one he inherited, then I haven't called anyone clueless.

Sometimes its better just to admit to something rather than splitting hairs to try and justify a position which is indefensible.

You inferred that those who didnt agree with your opinion were clueless, indeed you went so far as to put it in writing for everyone to see and now you deny it !?!

For what its worth , i agree that JR has made a massive difference and should be judged on what he manages to do with his players rather than the inherited duds. i believe we will stay up and that the form tables would suggest we are the form team in this league....at the moment . (LPM might want to brush up on what constitutes "form")  However i am acutely aware that temporary form may not in itself be sufficient to save us.

Why dont you just admit you said it (difficult to deny anyway !)  , get it off your chest and move on ? 

 

[faraway saint]

6 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

Sometimes its better just to admit to something rather than splitting hairs to try and justify a position which is indefensible.

You inferred that those who didnt agree with your opinion were clueless, indeed you went so far as to put it in writing for everyone to see and now you deny it !?!

For what its worth , i agree that JR has made a massive difference and should be judged on what he manages to do with his players rather than the inherited duds. i believe we will stay up and that the form tables would suggest we are the form team in this league....at the moment . (LPM might want to brush up on what constitutes "form")  However i am acutely aware that temporary form may not in itself be sufficient to save us.

Why dont you just admit you said it (difficult to deny anyway !)  , get it off your chest and move on ? 

 

Aye, saves me quoting this latest cracker, and it's not his only abusive term when people don't agree with him.

No big deal, quite amusing really.

 

[Soctty]

Sometimes its better just to admit to something rather than splitting hairs to try and justify a position which is indefensible.
You inferred that those who didnt agree with your opinion were clueless, indeed you went so far as to put it in writing for everyone to see and now you deny it !?!
For what its worth , i agree that JR has made a massive difference and should be judged on what he manages to do with his players rather than the inherited duds. i believe we will stay up and that the form tables would suggest we are the form team in this league....at the moment . (LPM might want to brush up on what constitutes "form")  However i am acutely aware that temporary form may not in itself be sufficient to save us.
Why dont you just admit you said it (difficult to deny anyway !)  , get it off your chest and move on ? 
 

I wrote the post very deliberately mate. If I find anyone who disagrees I'll gladly admit to having called them clueless, especially if they insist they have no agenda, which was the real point of the statement.

So - can anyone not see the positive difference between the team Jack inherited and the one he's built?

[Soctty]

Aye, saves me quoting this latest cracker, and it's not his only abusive term when people don't agree with him.
No big deal, quite amusing really. [emoji38]
 

Find someone who disagrees and we'll decide if I'm being abusive, or have just identified their agenda.

[emoji6]

[Doakes]

Jack Ross has won 11, drawn 5 and lost 11 since he came in. Most of those losses were a direct result of being left with Alex Rae's badly assembled & unbalanced squad.

In our last 10 games, in all competitions - we've had 6 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses - 1 of those against Celtic. We should have beaten Dumbarton away, Dunfermline at home we were unlucky to draw - the Raith game at home was a poor loss.

Our recent wins have came against the best team in Wales, and the 2 teams in our league with the highest wage budgets.

From those stats alone, I reckon this thread should now be binned.

[shull]

Leave the Thread be. 

Just don't add to it, if it annoys. 

[munoz]

22 minutes ago, shull said:

Leave the Thread be. 

Just don't add to it, if it annoys. 

That's what I'm going to do . I leave it for the pessimists . 

Ps I might return come the end of the season .