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TopCat

Jack Ross Must Go.

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If a manager who has 30 games from 36 to manage and then takes a team down , then he should be sacked.

No point blaming previous managers / squads etc , if after 6 games of the season he took charge , 30 games is enough time for a decent manager to rectify it.

We are not down yet however , so therefore he should be left in place until the end of the season.

After that however ( if relegated ) how can anyone justify keeping him on ? We are playing better ? That'll be enough eh ?


The first bit of this is key for me. He'll be in charge for five/sixths of the season so the stuff about him needing time to get his own squad wears a bit thin. Rae managed two wins in his first three games with Murray's players. Ross has managed two league wins in three months.

Having someone else's squad is part of the problem but maybe he could have taken the revolutionary step of working with them to help improve them and get them to a better standard. Sadly, coaching players to be better seems to be a foreign concept in this country. Far easier just to go out and sign a new team.

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1 minute ago, munoz said:

Mr Motivator couldn't motivate that team . 

This shambles isn't Jack Ross's fault . He hasn't signed any of them . 

Correct! All Jack has done is takeover a squad, most of whom finished 6th last season, who were struggling in 10th when he took over in October and looks to have them more or less certain to go down by January unless Ayr manage to blow a 7 point gap.

Ross's key decisions before the transfer window opened have been:

Bring back Ben Gordon from his emergency loan to Alloa.

Send Kyle Hutton out an emergency loan to Airdrie at a time when our first option for bringing on a midfield sub is now David Clarkson.

Remove Tom Walsh from first team matchday squad after a few games (despite him being joint top scorer in the league at the time).

Bring in Magennis followed by McAllister (once he was fit again).

Keep Baird out the team after his suspension was over.

Send Walsh and Hardie back to the international Rangers on 1st January.

First January signing, a U20 development team player at Aberdeen who will still leave for a 1 week holiday as soon as we want to sign him on loan.

Now I am not seeing I disagree with all his decisions or saying he hasn't inherited a difficult situation. What I will say is Ross's own decision making process to date doesn't fill me with an awful lot of confidence he will save our season and i fear Sean McCluskey won't replace Ryan Hardie's contribution to the cause nevermind Tom Walsh's.

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1 minute ago, the barrhead teacher said:


Seven points from last four games before today's debacle

or 2 points from a possible 12 in the last 4 games, 3 of which have been at home - 1 against a team who hadn't won since September, while the other 2 home games were against teams who finished with 10 men. Still, the general wisdom on the firum is we are a "form team" going by performances (if we rule out 3 of the last 10 performances 2 of which have ben the worst ever or worst in years) and our improved results where we um haven't won in 4 weeks.

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15 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Dumbarton were the top p/t team in the country during Murray's time there. In his final season he was up against the likes of Rangers, Hibs & Hearts so yeah there were going to be a few drubbings but so what that's 18 months ago.

The question tonight is whether Jack Ross is the best man to take the club forward from where we currently are. I'm undecided but considering the question is most certainly not NUTS!

So we can afford the managerial merry-go-round.  What do you and some others want. A team who Ross did not pick or another manager to cut our low budget even further ? Thats the reality.  im not blaming Murray Bud there is more than him to point a finger at. 

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People were more animated when Queens goalkeeper was time wasting than backing the team at any point.

Soul destroying stuff to witness.




It was embarrassing wasn't it. A team with a 1 goal lead after no wins in 13 league games and being knocked out the cup by Albion Rovers, try to wind the game down. What a shocker!

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26 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

And you think out of supposedly 50 good applications (even before the CEO went to press asking female managers to apply) Ross's results in July - September made him the only candidate worth considering?

Have no idea who applied we have what we have you cant keep sacking management in a short space of time especially when its not his team. Thats the bottom line. 

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4 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

So we can afford the managerial merry-go-round.  What do you and some others want. A team who Ross did not pick or another manager to cut our low budget even further ? Thats the reality.  im not blaming Murray Bud there is more than him to point a finger at. 

Fair enough some reasonable points there although I don't think anyone is suggesting Ross is solely to blame. The better performances argument can only sustain a manager so long when results continue to be miserable, and even the better performance was missing today.

Thinking about it I'd give Ross till the end of the season but if we're relegated in 10th position I'd be inclined to fire him. If he can't lift us above p/t teams like Ayr & Dumbarton with 3/4 of the season at his disposal would you trust him to get us promoted - I wouldn't. 

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1 hour ago, whydowebother said:

If a manager who has 30 games from 36 to manage and then takes a team down , then he should be sacked.

No point blaming previous managers / squads etc , if after 6 games of the season he took charge , 30 games is enough time for a decent manager to rectify it.

We are not down yet however , so therefore he should be left in place until the end of the season.

After that however ( if relegated ) how can anyone justify keeping him on ? We are playing better ? That'll be enough eh ?

I thought we mucked about for about 3 weeks with GLS hinting we might go for Billy Davies, Neil Warnock or Yogi and still had another 50 good applications to review once the top names withdrew / announced they had never applied in the first place and our Tony said he'd love to appoint a female manager? Fairly sure we lost to Dunfemline after Rae was sacked and drew with Falkirk before Ross took over. 

Ross's record in the league, I think, is played 12, lost 8, won 2, drawn 2.  I'm not seeing that as a huge improvement over Rae's played 6, lost 3, drew 3 when Raw had Quinn and McAllister out injured for all his time in charge and injuries to MacKenzie, Gordon, Morgan and Calum Gallagher during his league campaign and Ross has mostly had most of them fit.

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Davie Farrell was on Off the Ball earlier. Certainly there was a bit of rancour there, as you would expect, at being binned after 6 games. He said though, which is absolutely correct, that we need to get out of the cycle of changing managers so regularly. No matter what your business is, success comes from people feeling secure in their job and having time to build.

I thought getting rid of AR and DF so quickly was surprising and unfair, but I could understand that GS wanted his own man in. Things have got worse, but we need some stability and I look forward to JR being the manager next season, even if we're in League 1.

A wee point as well on the "oh what a dire state we're in as a football club, we're going down the tubes"....... Attendances today: Ayr - 2261, Greenock - 2094, Kirkcaldy - 2202, Paisley - 3105. That's pretty amazing considering where we are, in my opinion, and I look at Dunfermline who were in League 1 for three seasons, back up this season, took nearly 3000 to Stark's Park last week and are now chasing the play-offs. Yes, we're in dire straits and are likely to go down, but things will improve again and we will back challenging at the top of this league in the not too distant future!

 

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or 2 points from a possible 12 in the last 4 games, 3 of which have been at home - 1 against a team who hadn't won since September, while the other 2 home games were against teams who finished with 10 men. Still, the general wisdom on the firum is we are a "form team" going by performances (if we rule out 3 of the last 10 performances 2 of which have ben the worst ever or worst in years) and our improved results where we um haven't won in 4 weeks.

I agree that over this longer period of'improvement' the results have not been acceptable, particularly the Ayr Dumbarton and Dunfermline results, but the two wins in December, display against united at Tannadice and first hour against ton did give some hope that we were going in the right direction.
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Accepting that he will not be sacked and that he is operating with players that he didn't sign, this doesn't mean that he is beyond criticism. Play two up front and don't bring on Clarkson. No idea what he is thinking with his selections and tactics. By moving Morgan and Magenissues so early he was admitting his starting line up was wrong and meant two players playing out of position.

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2 hours ago, JJ McG said:

Jesus Christ.

not even he could save us,he may have came back from the dead,..........this team wont

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I'm not suggesting sacking Ross yet, but I also don't accept we have the worst squad in the Championship by a mile argument and what do you expect Ross to do argument. Whoever was appointed.

Ross inherited a St Mirren team only 2 points adrift of Dumbarton, 3 behind Dunfermline, 4 behind Ayr and 5 behind Morton. In his 12 games in charge we have closed the gap on no one else in the league other than Queen of the South who were top when Ross took over and 14 points ahead of us and who didn't win from then until today and are still 12 points clear. The gap between ourselves and Dumbarton has more than quadrupled, the gap between us and Dunfermline has quadrupled, the gap between us and Ayr has almost doubled and the gap between us and Morton has almost quadrupled.

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Correct! All Jack has done is takeover a squad, most of whom finished 6th last season, who were struggling in 10th when he took over in October and looks to have them more or less certain to go down by January unless Ayr manage to blow a 7 point gap.
Ross's key decisions before the transfer window opened have been:
Bring back Ben Gordon from his emergency loan to Alloa.
Send Kyle Hutton out an emergency loan to Airdrie at a time when our first option for bringing on a midfield sub is now David Clarkson.
Remove Tom Walsh from first team matchday squad after a few games (despite him being joint top scorer in the league at the time).
Bring in Magennis followed by McAllister (once he was fit again).
Keep Baird out the team after his suspension was over.
Send Walsh and Hardie back to the international Rangers on 1st January.
First January signing, a U20 development team player at Aberdeen who will still leave for a 1 week holiday as soon as we want to sign him on loan.
Now I am not seeing I disagree with all his decisions or saying he hasn't inherited a difficult situation. What I will say is Ross's own decision making process to date doesn't fill me with an awful lot of confidence he will save our season and i fear Sean McCluskey won't replace Ryan Hardie's contribution to the cause nevermind Tom Walsh's.


On the subject of Walsh and Hardie, I was told a few weeks back that they were two of our highest earners which may explain why they left. They weren't binned as their loan contracts came to an end - one for the "Danny wasn't sacked" brigade there.

Looking forward to seeing how the money freed up is spent.

Accepting that he will not be sacked and that he is operating with players that he didn't sign, this doesn't mean that he is beyond criticism. Play two up front and don't bring on Clarkson. No idea what he is thinking with his selections and tactics. By moving Morgan and Magenissues so early he was admitting his starting line up was wrong and meant two players playing out of position.


We played two up front against Raith and won. No idea why that has since been binned for a system that isn't working. And playing Morgan and Magennis where he did today was just weird.
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37 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

I'm not suggesting sacking Ross yet, but I also don't accept we have the worst squad in the Championship by a mile argument and what do you expect Ross to do argument. Whoever was appointed.

Ross has been a disappointment so far and the squad isn't the worst in the Championship by a mile, but it is poor and I think that is our main problem.

We've got far too many players whose careers are in their descendancy and they're taking up a huge chunk of our budget: Langfield, Webster, MacKenzie, Irvine, Quinn, Clarkson, Sutton. On their day, they would have made a good team in this league but injuries, age and, in particular, a loss of hunger for competitive football seems to have caught up with most of them. They're no match now for average players who just have a bit of zip and desire in their game. 

Edited by Julian Banjos
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Ross has been a disappointment so far and squad isn't the worst by a mile, but it is poor and I think that is our main problem.
We've got far too many players whose careers are in their descendancy and they're taking up a huge chunk of our budget: Langfield, Webster, MacKenzie, Irvine, Quinn, Clarkson, Sutton. On their day, they would have made a good team in this league but injuries, age and, in particular, a loss of hunger for the game seems to have caught up with most of them. They're no match now for average players who just have a bit of zip and desire in their game. 

^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^
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The bottom line is, if you don't concede goals, you don't lose games. When it was obvious to even the blind that that was what was needed, Ross has failed miserably on that front.

 

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5 minutes ago, Julian Banjos said:

Ross has been a disappointment so far and the squad isn't the worst in the Championship by a mile, but it is poor and I think that is our main problem.

We've got far too many players whose careers are in their descendancy and they're taking up a huge chunk of our budget: Langfield, Webster, MacKenzie, Irvine, Quinn, Clarkson, Sutton. On their day, they would have made a good team in this league but injuries, age and, in particular, a loss of hunger for competitive football seems to have caught up with most of them. They're no match now for average players who just have a bit of zip and desire in their game. 

Don't disagree too much with your main point other than to say I think we had an even less balanced squad under Ian Murray (not that it matters much now). Murray had a clean slate and chance to rebuild most of the squad and tried to offload the one decent senior pro he inherited (Goodwin). Murray re-signed an injured Alan Gow, re-signed a finished Steven Thompson, asked Scott Agnew to step up to full time football at the age of 28, and only signed Andy Webster and Jamie Langfield at the end of August and September. Keith Watson was his other good senior pro signing and that only came about after Naismith's injury. I'd argue Rae, last season, brought more of a balance to the team by bringing in more senior pros to help a side who were nearly all stepping up for U20 football and guys like Mallan, Kelly and Naismith were the experienced guys in the team with 1-2 seasons first team experience.

In the end I would agree Rae was too loyal to guys like Webster, Clarkson and Gallagher when their contracts were up for renewal in the summer - they were squad players in a team who did well, results-wise at least, in the second half of the season. I can appreciate Rae may well have thought last year's team did OK in the second half of the season and keeping a lot of the squad, signing Sutton and a few others and getting Naismith back should have meant that on paper at least we started this season with a stronger squad than we started last season with.

 

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Unbelievable how anyone can take the OP serious, he was one of the loudest of the "lets bin D Lennon and kick 

on to the next level" brigade, how did that one work out.. but to be honest I believe the old BOD would have had

us in similar shit whether Danny was in charge or not...

 

Anyway J Ross inherited probably the worst squad of players I've seen in 40 odd years supporting this club a 

mixture of washed up has-beens and a group of youngsters, some with potential but sadly a good few who've not, and

where are the players between the age of 23-30 who should at the peak of there careers, only one "Kyle F**kin Hutton"

just shows you what the manager was up against from the very start...

 

He deserves time to turn this shite around and only a total bellend would say otherwise  

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Just now, melmac said:

The bottom line is, if you don't concede goals, you don't lose games. When it was obvious to even the blind that that was what was needed, Ross has failed miserably on that front.

 

You are right. It is Ross` fault that we let a perfectly decent left back go and replaced him with a geriatric right footed left back. It is Ross` fault that we have a washed up centre back who couldnt give a f**k about this club , Its Ross` fault that our back four , which was noted by everyone as being deficient in most departments last season was not sufficiently sorted at the start of the season & Its Ross ` fault that we have no defensive midfield protector to assist that fragile back four.

& BTW , its Ross` Fault we are leaving europe and Donald Trumps hair will be in the whitehouse.

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