djchapsticks Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, DXBBud said: That's it in a nutshell. I don't see why some have such an issue with this. It's all about the club negotiating the best deal they can with the hand they are currently holding, as proven by the Mallan deal going cold, for now at least. Agreed, given the circumstances I was initially pretty disgusted at the amount offered and presumably accepted. However, now being told the exact goings on of the deal and the fact that were over a barrel so to speak, I'm less concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsidebud Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Yep - now that my petted lip has receded and my shoulder chip has been surgically removed I can be a bit more philosophical. It was a bit of a kick in the stomach though - especially on the back of recent optimism. The relatively short time left on the contract and the other pressures on the club make it no more palatable but completely understandable. Its a buyers' market in this case. If the club are making the best of a bad hand then fair play to them - I hope the add-ons (what ever they are) bear fruit in due time. Good luck to the lad in any case - I hope it works for him. I always rated Mcgennis higher anyway ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) biggest factors in all of this might be the kid's injury and our predicament in the 2015-16 season. had things been better on both fronts he might well have had more first team starts under his belt and could have moved for a lot more money then. As things stand, we get a good sum if he plays well and develops at his new club and we already have a not-bad sum on the table even if he fails. As good a piece of business as could be done in the circumstances. Edited January 25, 2017 by beyond our ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdowell76 Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 40 minutes ago, pozbaird said: You presume whatever you wish. Nail hit on head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Just now, Desnold said: What I'm saying is that people with no ambition stay within their comfort zone. People with ambition will try a harder role when the chance arises as they want to step up a level and prove that they are better than what they have already done. I think any player who looks for a move to a big club to hover around the fringes is taking a superb gamble that they will not be out of a job when their contract expires. Personally I think if he had no ambition he would have signed the first contract extension he was offered, but no, he wanted to try and get a better deal just like people in all walks of life who show ambition. While i get where your coming from,MY version of ambition would of been to learn my trade in the first team rather than getting a little more money playing in the reserves..( i wonder where in the que Kyle will slot into down at Derby?) He is a young boy and in my view has been badly badly advised Another 2 years playing for ST.Mirren's first team learning and progressing would of got him a bigger move to a bigger team... IF he had ambition and a better adviser just my opinion of course...but thats how i would have done things had i been given the talent Kyle has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 56 minutes ago, northendsaint said: Thanks for the update Div or ??????. Thanks for the update whoever you are. It was definitely me mate, nobody putting words in my mouth. I'm as unhappy at the prospect of losing Kyle as the next bud, but having slept on it and weighed up all the pros and cons I think the club is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Reckon the wee man will go right to the top, so we might just need to hope that we get our proper slice of the pie at a later date. On the Kyle McAllister transfer I believe 5% of whatever we get in for him goes to his youth teams, including Rangers who initially developed, then freed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MenstrieSaint Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Sonny said: Hopefully the money can be used for Calum Waters from Alloa and Dylan Nguene Bikey from Stirling Albion. If we could use half the money received to get these two and maybe get Storrie on a permanent deal , I think it would be good business , and from I,ve heard Jack Ross would very much like Calum Waters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Just now, MenstrieSaint said: If we could use half the money received to get these two and maybe get Storrie on a permanent deal , I think it would be good business , and from I,ve heard Jack Ross would very much like Calum Waters Allegedly Hibs and Dundee Utd want Bikey but his French Club want £40K development fee. 9 goals in 9 games and only 21 and getting some excellent reviews. And now we could afford him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sonny said: Allegedly Hibs and Dundee Utd want Bikey but his French Club want £40K development fee. 9 goals in 9 games and only 21 and getting some excellent reviews. And now we could afford him He also trains full time with St. Johnstone on the nights when Striling don't train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: He also trains full time with St. Johnstone on the nights when Striling don't train. Currently training with Hibs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Glad to see a lot of Premature Ejaculations in this thread have calmed down... Relax, don't do it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 McLean is now 25 and still playing for Aberdeen. McGinn is now in his second season playing in the Scottish Championship. There isn't a list of big clubs interested in these guys. We DID get the market value for them. What you appear to be saying is that other clubs have managed to sell players for grossly exaggerated values, well above their market value while we haven't. That is just bad luck. We did manage to sell O'Brien and McNamee for £600k many years ago for well above market value (as it so proved). Our problem is that, not only have we not produced anyone actually worth big money, we haven't even produced anyone with some promise where we can get lucky with an exaggerated fee. BTW, looking at your list, Hamilton got lucky with Andrue because their manager went to the club that bought him! Arfield and Robertson have proved to be genuine Premiership players, Armstrong is playing for Celtic regularly, Russell is a regular with Derby. Their fees have proved to be justified. We simply haven't produced any players of this class. This is the issue here. Our fans think our players are far better than they actually are. Kenny's a good Scottish Premiership player, nothing more. We done well to get six figures for him, it was the timing of that deal that was the issue. McGinn is 23 this year and still playing in the Scottish Championship. The price we got for him was fair too. McAllister has huge potential and that's what we are selling. He's far from the finished article though. I think the price plus add ons is about right and can understand why we've accepted it. To compare these guys to the likes of McArthur and McCarthy who've both became full internationals and regulars in the EPL is just bogus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, saintargyll said: While i get where your coming from,MY version of ambition would of been to learn my trade in the first team rather than getting a little more money playing in the reserves..( i wonder where in the que Kyle will slot into down at Derby?) He is a young boy and in my view has been badly badly advised Another 2 years playing for ST.Mirren's first team learning and progressing would of got him a bigger move to a bigger team... IF he had ambition and a better adviser just my opinion of course...but thats how i would have done things had i been given the talent Kyle has. While I do not know the wages Kyle will be getting at St Mirren I do know that Ross County in the Premier League were paying their players on average £700 a week. I assume Kyle would therefore be lucky to be earning £500 a week considering his current contract is 18 months old. In The English Championship the average is between £4k and £5k a week. While Kyle will probably not be earning that I think we can assume that his wages will have increased somewhere in the region of 5 fold with the potential of increasing 10 fold or more in the not to distant future. More than 'a little more money' I would imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, saintargyll said: While i get where your coming from,MY version of ambition would of been to learn my trade in the first team rather than getting a little more money playing in the reserves..( i wonder where in the que Kyle will slot into down at Derby?) He is a young boy and in my view has been badly badly advised Another 2 years playing for ST.Mirren's first team learning and progressing would of got him a bigger move to a bigger team... IF he had ambition and a better adviser just my opinion of course...but thats how i would have done things had i been given the talent Kyle has. Young players simply do not improve in the scottish game. it is a godawful version of football that ruins young players. If you want to improve then the english championship and premiership are the obvious places to go scottish teams are currently seen as being on a par with juniors and old division 1 or 2 of 15 years ago, that is how far we have regressed-would you have left a young McGarvey in the juniors for another 2 years at age 19? Edited January 25, 2017 by beyond our ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmac Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, div said: It was definitely me mate, nobody putting words in my mouth. I'm as unhappy at the prospect of losing Kyle as the next bud, but having slept on it and weighed up all the pros and cons I think the club is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Reckon the wee man will go right to the top, so we might just need to hope that we get our proper slice of the pie at a later date. On the Kyle McAllister transfer I believe 5% of whatever we get in for him goes to his youth teams, including Rangers who initially developed, then freed him. This Rangers you speak of, Oldo presumably - are we listed as one of their debtors? How can a club look for a fee when they freed the boy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaponsasaint Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I'm not against selling players. it's the low prices for them we seem to accept. clubs of a similar size to us sell their young players for a lot more. That's my beef with this situation. Hamilton are still in the SPL cos of the cash they brought in for Mccarthy. McArthur and Hendrie while our players go for chicken feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I'm not against selling players. it's the low prices for them we seem to accept. clubs of a similar size to us sell their young players for a lot more. That's my beef with this situation. Hamilton are still in the SPL cos of the cash they brought in for Mccarthy. McArthur and Hendrie while our players go for chicken feed. Each with a lot more appearances, in a better league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I'm not against selling players. it's the low prices for them we seem to accept. clubs of a similar size to us sell their young players for a lot more. That's my beef with this situation. Hamilton are still in the SPL cos of the cash they brought in for Mccarthy. McArthur and Hendrie while our players go for chicken feed. Acht stop yer cluck cluck clucking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Just now, beyond our ken said: Young players simply do not improve in the scottish game. it is a godawful version of football that ruins young players. If you want to improve then the english championship and premiership are the obvious places to go scottish teams are currently seen as being on a par with juniors and old division 1 or 2 of 15 years ago, that is how far we have regressed-would you have left a young McGarvey in the juniors for another 2 years at age 19? as i said "i wonder where in the que will Kyle fall into down at Derby?" he is better off here for another couple of years imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLBud Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I'm not against selling players. it's the low prices for them we seem to accept. clubs of a similar size to us sell their young players for a lot more. That's my beef with this situation. Hamilton are still in the SPL cos of the cash they brought in for Mccarthy. McArthur and Hendrie while our players go for chicken feed. You can't compare McAllister (or even McLean for that matter) to McCarthy and McArthur in terms of experience and ability. I think one other Hamilton duo may also have been young player of the year.If McAllister had another year on his contract I'm sure we'd be looking for more money. As it is, he wants to go and it's better to take something for him now ( cash and add ons) than wait until the summer, watch him sign a PCA and then fight over the development fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotstounSaint Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Is it not incorrect to say we won't necessarily get a sell on clause if we let his contract run down? That's what happened with McGinn and we still got one in exchange for a reduction in the development fee.Anyhow, probably a moot point if the boy wants to leave. No point in having an unhappy player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo_smfc Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Quote Steve McClaren reveals to @BBCDerbySport that St Mirren winger Kyle McAllister is at Moor Farm for a medical this afternoon. #dcfcfans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ScotstounSaint said: Is it not incorrect to say we won't necessarily get a sell on clause if we let his contract run down? That's what happened with McGinn and we still got one in exchange for a reduction in the development fee. Anyhow, probably a moot point if the boy wants to leave. No point in having an unhappy player. The development fee we'd get for McAllister would be significantly lower given he only joined us in 2013(?). McGinn was with the club since he was a wee boy under 10. Edited January 25, 2017 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 59 minutes ago, santaponsasaint said: I'm not against selling players. it's the low prices for them we seem to accept. clubs of a similar size to us sell their young players for a lot more. That's my beef with this situation. Hamilton are still in the SPL cos of the cash they brought in for Mccarthy. McArthur and Hendrie while our players go for chicken feed. Frustrating I know however McGinn was totally out of contract and McAllister could sign for anyone in 6 months time. Both wanted to leave. McCarthy had not long signed an additional 3 year deal when his transfer came about. McArthur was captain of Accies at 20 and playing in the Premier league and U21 cap. He went for £500k. Every transfer situation has different circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 1 hour ago, saintargyll said: as i said "i wonder where in the que will Kyle fall into down at Derby?" he is better off here for another couple of years imo he simply would not improve much when pitched against the kind of opposition we see, whereas he has backed himself to be able to take his chances and improve by playing and training at a much higher level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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