shull Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) Sinn Fein dude dead at 66 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39185899 Edited March 21, 2017 by shull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 The significance of McGuinness in terms of the political landscape of the whole of Ireland in recent decades can't be overstated. Many argue that the peace process would never have been brokered without his involvement. From sitting on the war council of the IRA, to sitting beside the Rev Ian Paisley in a power sharing administration - quite staggering really. Whatever you think of his past, he has certainly left a hell of a legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Drew said: The significance of McGuinness in terms of the political landscape of the whole of Ireland in recent decades can't be overstated. Many argue that the peace process would never have been brokered without his involvement. From sitting on the war council of the IRA, to sitting beside the Rev Ian Paisley in a power sharing administration - quite staggering really. Whatever you think of his past, he has certainly left a hell of a legacy. Aye, 2 sides, one, indefensible, the other, took a very strong and brave character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted March 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Him and Paisley together was remarkable and heartwarming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 3 hours ago, faraway saint said: Aye, 2 sides, one, indefensible, the other, took a very strong and brave character. You could argue, not that I would personally do so, that he could not have held the level of trust and authority ahe had over republicans in the peace process if he had bot been hands on in the other stuff a bitter pill for many, but maybe the truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, beyond our ken said: You could argue, not that I would personally do so, that he could not have held the level of trust and authority ahe had over republicans in the peace process if he had bot been hands on in the other stuff a bitter pill for many, but maybe the truth I don't think there is much argument that he was involved in many terrible crimes and I can easily see why people will never forgive him. Hence the "indefensible" in my post. Not sure what you're trying to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Lothian Saint Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) On 21/03/2017 at 0:42 PM, faraway saint said: I don't think there is much argument that he was involved in many terrible crimes and I can easily see why people will never forgive him. Hence the "indefensible" in my post. Not sure what you're trying to say? I think he's saying he was an evil basket who was hard as nails and who was up for and well able to persuade those who were reluctant to go down the peace path to follow his lead. Edited March 23, 2017 by East Lothian Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FS Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) On 21/03/2017 at 0:42 PM, faraway saint said: I don't think there is much argument that he was involved in many terrible crimes and I can easily see why people will never forgive him. Hence the "indefensible" in my post. Not sure what you're trying to say? Effectively saying that McGuinness had the respect of hard line IRA members owing to his command of the Derry brigade throughout the 'troubles'. He undoubtedly had blood on his hands but via that experience was also able to persuade the hard core to sign up to a peaceful, conventional political process that exists today. I'm sure McGuinness had experienced some sort of deep cathartic regretful process too at some point that directly contributed to cessation of hostilities. That ought to be considered as much as his Provo career was, in the balance of his life. Edited March 23, 2017 by FS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Blood on his hands from the killing of many children and adult's who had nothing to do with the troubles. Unforgivable for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FS Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 41 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Blood on his hands from the killing of many children and adult's who had nothing to do with the troubles. Unforgivable for me. Warfare is a dirty business, but let's not assume uniformed 'helmets' play it by the rule book either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 I was never directly affected by the atrocities committed by the IRA or Martin McGuinness. I'm now of the view that if the victims, relatives and those who opposed him politically can forgive then I'm not really in a position to hold grudges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 17 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: I was never directly affected by the atrocities committed by the IRA or Martin McGuinness. I'm now of the view that if the victims, relatives and those who opposed him politically can forgive then I'm not really in a position to hold grudges. Yeah this is my view too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 12 hours ago, FS said: Warfare is a dirty business, but let's not assume uniformed 'helmets' play it by the rule book either... There is the law of the land that's all . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 There is the law of the land that's all . Yeah, there is the law of the land however it isn't all.People frequently have to break unjust laws in order for them to be changed. The suffragette movement for example.I'm not attempting to defend or justify McGuinness' previous behaviour with this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said: Yeah, there is the law of the land however it isn't all. People frequently have to break unjust laws in order for them to be changed. The suffragette movement for example. I'm not attempting to defend or justify McGuinness' previous behaviour with this post. I'm just against any sort of vilance against innocent everyday people. Time has proven things can be achieved round a table. I'm all for Ireland being one country but it must be done the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FS Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 indeed, so please refer to my previous quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: I'm just against any sort of vilance against innocent everyday people. Time has proven things can be achieved round a table. I'm all for Ireland being one country but it must be done the right way. They would tell you that the violence brought everyone around the table. Of course sheer bloody violence brought them all to the table in 1920 , which led to the formation of the Free State. This was followed by a civil war that saw more Irishmen killed than what had been killed in the war of independence , then they ended up with Edwardo Devilera who wasn't even Irish and a bit of a fascist too. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, FS said: indeed, so please refer to my previous quote. If the cause is to use bullets and bombs then the only option is to put in the armed forces, were more innocent people killed by the army than republican or ununionists ? I have no idea the bottom line is too many were killed which was started by what ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 If the cause is to use bullets and bombs then the only option is to put in the armed forces, were more innocent people killed by the army than republican or ununionists ? I have no idea the bottom line is too many were killed which was started by what ? Who started the problems in Ireland is another thread altogether! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 17 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: If the cause is to use bullets and bombs then the only option is to put in the armed forces, were more innocent people killed by the army than republican or ununionists ? I have no idea the bottom line is too many were killed which was started by what ? You can Google it quite easily. It makes surprising reading in many ways. In fact it is a real eye-opener to many people who have preconceived notions of who did what to whom. I started coming over here on business in 1982 and have lived here since 85. I wasn't directly affected apart from never knowing what time I would get to the office in the morning or home again in the evening due to bombs going off or more likely bomb scares. Countless times I left Belfast round 5pm and got home to Bangor, 13 miles away, after 8pm. A few big bomb blasts were close enough to frighten the brown stuff out of me including two here in Bangor. In the second of those bombs, a friend of mine's mother who was in the RUC lost a foot. Luckily nobody was killed. The nephew of a very close friend of mine was shot dead by the IRA up beyond Cookstown on the border between Tyrone and Derry. Mistaken identity. They were trying to kill his boss. That murder had Martin McGuinness's fingerprints all over it. The daughter of a client of mine was shot dead in a café in West Belfast by King Rat aka Billy Wright Her crime? She was a 17 yr old girl working in a café which was largely staffed by Catholics. She wasn't a Catholic and in fact was from a very religious Protestant family who forgave Wright many years ago. I wouldn't have. When Wright got shot in jail, a friend of mine from the RUC said to me 'Good riddance'. If you had asked me twenty years ago what I thought of McGuiness, my reply would have been full of expletives deleted. But I came to admire him greatly. I'm genuinely sorry that he has died. He will be missed in our chaotic political situation. I know Lady Sylvia Hermon and she told me that when her husband Sir Jack died (he was a former chief constable of the RUC) the first person to phone her was Martin McGuiness closely followed by Gerry Adams. It was another few days before any Unionist politician contacted her. McGuiness committed many terrible crimes. I came to admire him greatly and I genuinely believe he helped create a much better quality of life for all of us living over here. He was a devout Catholic and he is now possibly in the hands of his God. It would have been interesting to have been a fly on the wall at that little meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 I'm looking forward to watching this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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