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St Mirren Contract thread


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Just trust Jack & James to judge. 

This isn't going to decide who stays and who goes.  It's just a bit of chat and fun to see everyone's thoughts... But I assume you knew that lol
Better options for the money than Jack, he's made massive costly mistakes early in the season and I wouldn't be risking him in such an important role as center back but each to their own. 
As for Todd and Fjelde, I don't think Todd is good enough to push us onto a title challenging team and Fjelde has hardly kicked a ball.  Think we need to look at players that will improve and challenge the settled team. Fair enough we might lose a few but I think we could get better than them to replace. 
Ben Gordon and Rocco Quinn, I guess time will tell but after such bad injuries I don't think it's possible to make a decision right now. 

You talk about costly mistakes by Baird but would keep Gary Irvine?

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

Anyone got any thoughts on prospects in the U20s? I went to a couple games start of season and liked the look of Flanagan, who seems to be doing well at Annan now as well. O'Keefe looked good as well and heard good reports on Orsi and Fawkes.

I'd agree with Flanagan and O'Keefe. Orsi looked a stand-out at the start of the season but hasn't really developed.

Having previously tipped Magennis to break through I think the best prospect is Darren Whyte. He's been a sub in a few 1st team games and in the U20s is a composed centre back who can also play defensive midfield.

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4 hours ago, David Mc said:

Rocco Quinn is under contract next season.  Another of AR's Einstein moves given the player's previous injury history.  Decent player to have around if can stay fit?  Jack Baird is an almost definite re-sign as we need four CBs and he can keep improving at his age.

I don't think there were too many complaints at the time. He did quite well for us last season and most folk were pretty happy he was staying and on a two year contract. Sadly it all went tits up in the game at Livingston (think it was that match).

3 hours ago, kevo_smfc said:

I'd be trying to tie Morgan and Mallan down to longer term deals as a priority, though we will probably not be in a position till safety to do so. Both players will move on to bigger teams I have no doubt, though to safeguard a decent return on two of our best assets is a must.

Yeah, we should be trying to get them to agree to another couple of years. They almost certainly won't, although putting in a release clause might work.

Stelios has an option for another year, although dunno if it's him or the club that can activate that. Irvine has a clause for another year if he plays a certain number of games but no idea what that was. Will be surprised if Davis or Eckersley is back even if we stay up due to finances and same goes for O'Brien, even though he is saying all the right things.

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5 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Sorry if this is already posted somewhere, I couldn't see it. Thoughts on contracts for next season? I know it will be dependent on us staying up what we'll do.  I'm a lot more confident we'll stay up now so I feel it's time to discuss.  My thoughts as below.  Also if anyone has any comments on U20s and who should be signed released feel free to post.  I haven't seen enough of them. I'm pretty sure I have most of the contract terms correct.

1.       Jamie Langfield – Contract up (Out)

2.       Stelios Demetriou – Contract up (Extend)

3.       Gary Irvine – Contract up (Extend)

4.       Andy Webster – Contract up (Out)

5.       Ben Gordon – Contract up (Undecided/ Likely Out)

6.       Gary Mackenzie – Contract up (Extend)

7.       David Clarkson – Contract up (Out)

8.       Rocco Quinn – Contract up (Undecided/ Likely Out)

9.       John Sutton – 2018

10.   Stephen Mallan – 2018

11.   Cammy Smith – Loan (Try get back/ Sign)

14.   Kyle Hutton – 2018 (Try get out)

15.   Jack Baird – Contract Up (Out)

16.   Rory Loy – Loan (Try get back/ Sign)

17.   Lewis Morgan – 2018

18.   Lewis McLear – 2018

19.   Jordan Stewart – Contract up (Undecided/ Likely Out)

20.   Craig Storie – Loan (Out)

21.   Billy O’Brien – Loan (Sign)

22.   Stephen McGinn – 2018

23.   Pal Fjelde – Contract up/ year option (Out)

24.   Harry Davis – Loan (depending on injury try get back)

25.   Josh Todd – Contract up (Out)

42.   Kyle Magennis – 2019

44.   Adam Eckersley – Contract up (extend)

Under 20s

28.   Reece Wilson GK

30.   Greig McNaughton DF

31.   Nathan Flanagan MF

32.   Dylan McKendry DF

33.   Craig Johnston FW

34.   Kalvin Orsi DF

35.   Darren Whyte MF

36.   Connor O’Keefe MF

37.   Mark Morrison DF

38.   Luke Barclay MF

39.   Andrew McDonald DF

40.   Cameron MacPherson MF

41.   Lee Fawkes MF

43.   Chris Hendry GK

^^^^^^Needs to find a new hobby or a life.

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5 hours ago, stlucifer said:

Nothing can be decided ATM which is probably why you've not seen it anywhere. We don't know which division we'll be playing in so it's unlikely any of the players you've marked "keepsy" would contemplate extending their stay. Also you're quick to judge some of the lesser used players and Discounting Jack Baird I believe is a bad move.

I,m hoping that whatever happens at the end of the season , we will make decent offers to try and keep Irvine , McGinn , Stellios and G Mac , since January there's been a good feel about the team , and if the wages are okay I would that these guys would want to stay with us , the wages made available from losing Langfield , Quin , Clarkson , and Webster should come in handy

 

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6 minutes ago, MenstrieSaint said:

I,m hoping that whatever happens at the end of the season , we will make decent offers to try and keep Irvine , McGinn , Stellios and G Mac , since January there's been a good feel about the team , and if the wages are okay I would that these guys would want to stay with us , the wages made available from losing Langfield , Quin , Clarkson , and Webster should come in handy

 

If the worst case scenario happens do you think these players will want to play in the third tier of Scottish football?

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1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

If the worst case scenario happens do you think these players will want to play in the third tier of Scottish football?

I think they would if they believed we were going straight back up , we might not get all four , but maybe two or three of them , but it of course depends on whatever other offers they have , but we should have a decent enough budget to retain a backbone of decent experienced players

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1 minute ago, MenstrieSaint said:

I think they would if they believed we were going straight back up , we might not get all four , but maybe two or three of them , but it of course depends on whatever other offers they have , but we should have a decent enough budget to retain a backbone of decent experienced players

I would highly doubt it. Anyone "decent" would be off, and quite rightly so. All speculation which depends on what league we are in IMO.

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You talk about costly mistakes by Baird but would keep Gary Irvine?


Irvine has more than redeemed himself in recent matches. Has to be remembered He was played out of position as well, been a completely different player second half of season. Jack Baird hasn't done anything recently to suggest we can't get better for the wage. He's also not improved as a young player in two seasons. If anything he's gotten worse.

I'm actually pretty shocked everyone is saying keep him, short memories and if I remember a lot of people were panicked (like myself) when he was brought back in to cover the injuries.
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Irvine has more than redeemed himself in recent matches. Has to be remembered He was played out of position as well, been a completely different player second half of season. Jack Baird hasn't done anything recently to suggest we can't get better for the wage. He's also not improved as a young player in two seasons. If anything he's gotten worse.

 

I'm actually pretty shocked everyone is saying keep him, short memories and if I remember a lot of people were panicked (like myself) when he was brought back in to cover the injuries.

If you remove January until now had anyone really improved at the club in the last 2 years?

 

My major worry about him being brought back was that it meant that we had no cover if Mckenzie got injured again it was not in Jacks ability. The worry was we might end up with Webster playing.

 

I know he let himself down in Falkirk but other than than that I cannot think of a lot of occasions where he let us down.

 

Irvine has had the chance to redeem himself, in my mind he has been good but still has work to do before he could be described as redeemed. If we stay up then Jack Baird will have played a massive role in keeping us up given he is pretty likely to play in the next 6 games would that earn redemption?

 

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If you remove January until now had anyone really improved at the club in the last 2 years?
 
My major worry about him being brought back was that it meant that we had no cover if Mckenzie got injured again it was not in Jacks ability. The worry was we might end up with Webster playing.
 
I know he let himself down in Falkirk but other than than that I cannot think of a lot of occasions where he let us down.
 
Irvine has had the chance to redeem himself, in my mind he has been good but still has work to do before he could be described as redeemed. If we stay up then Jack Baird will have played a massive role in keeping us up given he is pretty likely to play in the next 6 games would that earn redemption?
 


If Jack plays well in last six games 100% I would give him a new contract. I think he's been shaky since he's been back and I haven't been filled with confidence with him at centre back.

Irvine on the other hand I think has been very good in the games he's featured. His position, his passing and his defending have all been so much better at the right back position. I'm not sure why such the drastic change, maybe it's confidence maybe he's playing for his career but whatever it is he's like a different player.

Back to Jack though. Do we think he's good enough to improve or make one of the centre back position his own next season? Is he a player that can push us on to the title or at least a play off place? Imo no, I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise in games he's played. I would love to be proved wrong but I'm not seeing it right now. I would rather have the money back in the wage budget than hope he has a major improvement next season.
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If Jack plays well in last six games 100% I would give him a new contract. I think he's been shaky since he's been back and I haven't been filled with confidence with him at centre back.

Irvine on the other hand I think has been very good in the games he's featured. His position, his passing and his defending have all been so much better at the right back position. I'm not sure why such the drastic change, maybe it's confidence maybe he's playing for his career but whatever it is he's like a different player.

Back to Jack though. Do we think he's good enough to improve or make one of the centre back position his own next season? Is he a player that can push us on to the title or at least a play off place? Imo no, I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise in games he's played. I would love to be proved wrong but I'm not seeing it right now. I would rather have the money back in the wage budget than hope he has a major improvement next season.

I'd imagine he'd be one of the lowest earners at the club, so you may struggle to find cover for similar wages.
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Irvine has more than redeemed himself in recent matches. Has to be remembered He was played out of position as well, been a completely different player second half of season. Jack Baird hasn't done anything recently to suggest we can't get better for the wage. He's also not improved as a young player in two seasons. If anything he's gotten worse.

I'm actually pretty shocked everyone is saying keep him, short memories and if I remember a lot of people were panicked (like myself) when he was brought back in to cover the injuries.


I'd love to see this catalogue of errors by Baird, because i can't think of many big mistakes he's made.

Also think you're confusing concern over how we'd fair without the highly impressive Davis with panic over Baird filling in. Most would have expected a drop off in defensive performance due to Harry's absence, but that's a long way from castigating Jack Baird. Now if you were to mention Andy Webster filling in for any longer than ten minutes, you'd see some real panic...

Oh and Irvine was not played out of position. He was played in the position he'd played for the previous season and a half in the premiership for the team we signed him from. He's redeemed himself lately after previous poor performances, but that's not a stick to beat other young players with.
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The centre back pairing has been massively difficult this season until the arrival of Harry Davis coincided with the match fitness of Gary McKenzie. I defy any centre back to look good with Webster alongside and Gordon has barely showed as a first team player to form a partnership. In short this season must have been hugely difficult to shine for Baird. Now he's in the team with a centre back who is playing well he looks to be doing just fine.

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35 minutes ago, Soctty said:

 

 




Oh and Irvine was not played out of position. He was played in the position he'd played for the previous season and a half in the premiership for the team we signed him from. He's redeemed himself lately after previous poor performances, but that's not a stick to beat other young players with.

 

But he has stated in a recent interview that RB is his preferred position and is more comfortable there.

However, he did state that he should have done better at LB and that that a drop in confidence was one of the factors  that led to his poor performances at LB.

He may not have been played "out of position", but LB certainly isn't, by the own player's admission, his preferred position.

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But he has stated in a recent interview that RB is his preferred position and is more comfortable there.
However, he did state that he should have done better at LB and that that a drop in confidence was one of the factors  that led to his poor performances at LB.
He may not have been played "out of position", but LB certainly isn't, by the own player's admission, his preferred position.


He admitted he should have done better there. He's played a quarter of all games in his career there. Not out of position. It is as i said earlier - he's benefited from playing in a stronger defence in a better team, wth intriguing confidence. A wee spell out of the team probably did him some good too.
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I'd imagine he'd be one of the lowest earners at the club, so you may struggle to find cover for similar wages.


Maybe more thinking of youth players getting a contract or bringing in a promising centre back. Will see how he goes last few games but I'd probably ask someone to point to the games where he's showed potential as a title challenging centre back. I can't think of any this season if I'm honest.
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2 minutes ago, Soctty said:

 

 


He admitted he should have done better there. He's played a quarter of all games in his career there. Not out of position. It is as i said earlier - he's benefited from playing in a stronger defence in a better team, wth intriguing confidence. A wee spell out of the team probably did him some good too.

 

We'll agree to disagree on this matter.

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On Jack Baird
Many people on here thought Sean Kelly was a dud
Easily holding his own down in England
Baird is very young playing in an important position in any team i would keep him


Re. Kelly - Was thinking exactly the same thing bud. I think most of us were slightly bemused/concerned by that decision. Subsequent defensive performances proved our collective guts right [emoji20]

Baird is a young player with great potential; occasional youthful silly mistakes (to be expected) but also capable of powerful tackles and strong/commanding performances.

So anything other than a new contract for Jack leads to the question "what's the point?"

Development of our own young talent is the future for a club like St Mirren.



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I think it's very clear that Irvine is much more comfortable at rb. I don't think it's anything to do with better defenders around him. His passing has been completely different, his positioning, his willingness to get forward. Still it isn't a debate about why he's gotten better I'm just glad he has gotten better. The should of done better comment is likely what any player would say first half of the season.

Baird had partnered Mckenzie earlier in the season. His performances have been very similar to Webster in my opinion. Both poor. I know he's came through the youth system and their may be an affection for that but please point me to performances that suggest he can be part of a championship winning/ play off making team? My point is there is likely Better out there.

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