St Mirren Contract thread

[southsidebud]

Sorry if this is already posted somewhere, I couldn't see it. Thoughts on contracts for next season? I know it will be dependent on us staying up what we'll do.  I'm a lot more confident we'll stay up now so I feel it's time to discuss.  My thoughts as below.  Also if anyone has any comments on U20s and who should be signed released feel free to post.  I haven't seen enough of them. I'm pretty sure I have most of the contract terms correct.
1.       Jamie Langfield – Contract up (Out)
2.       Stelios Demetriou – Contract up (Extend)
3.       Gary Irvine – Contract up (Extend)
4.       Andy Webster – Contract up (Out)
5.       Ben Gordon – Contract up (Undecided/ Likely Out)
6.       Gary Mackenzie – Contract up (Extend)
7.       David Clarkson – Contract up (Out)
8.       Rocco Quinn – Contract up (Undecided/ Likely Out)
9.       John Sutton – 2018
10.   Stephen Mallan – 2018
11.   Cammy Smith – Loan (Try get back/ Sign)
14.   Kyle Hutton – 2018 (Try get out)
15.   Jack Baird – Contract Up (Out)
16.   Rory Loy – Loan (Try get back/ Sign)
17.   Lewis Morgan – 2018
18.   Lewis McLear – 2018
19.   Jordan Stewart – Contract up (Undecided/ Likely Out)
20.   Craig Storie – Loan (Out)
21.   Billy O’Brien – Loan (Sign)
22.   Stephen McGinn – 2018
23.   Pal Fjelde – Contract up/ year option (Out)
24.   Harry Davis – Loan (depending on injury try get back)
25.   Josh Todd – Contract up (Out)
42.   Kyle Magennis – 2019
44.   Adam Eckersley – Contract up (extend)
Under 20s
28.   Reece Wilson GK
30.   Greig McNaughton DF
31.   Nathan Flanagan MF
32.   Dylan McKendry DF
33.   Craig Johnston FW
34.   Kalvin Orsi DF
35.   Darren Whyte MF
36.   Connor O’Keefe MF
37.   Mark Morrison DF
38.   Luke Barclay MF
39.   Andrew McDonald DF
40.   Cameron MacPherson MF
41.   Lee Fawkes MF
43.   Chris Hendry GK

The ones i would disagree with would be:

5. Gordon - undecided as opposed to out - like to have a chance to see him play again.
8. Quinn - potential squad player (although i grant that injuries are a problem)
15. Baird - Must keep!
16. Loy - meh
19. Stewart - I'd give him a chance to prove himself
23. Fjelde - decent squad player and his name gives squad list a more continental vibe [emoji3]
25. Todd - worth a squad gig.

BTW - I think this is a good thread - it's good fun to talk about the future when, for a change, the future looks good [emoji4]

[saintargyll]

10 minutes ago, southsidebud said:

 

The ones i would disagree with would be:

5. Gordon - undecided as opposed to out - like to have a chance to see him play again.
8. Quinn - potential squad player (although i grant that injuries are a problem)
15. Baird - Must keep!
16. Loy - meh
19. Stewart - I'd give him a chance to prove himself
23. Fjelde - decent squad player and his name gives squad list a more continental vibe
25. Todd - worth a squad gig.

BTW - I think this is a good thread - it's good fun to talk about the future when, for a change, the future looks good

 

I thought Loy was outstanding on Saturday

[Lord Pityme]

If you want to know what a younger Gary McKenzie was like, look at Jack Baird!

[Paisley brazilians]

17 hours ago, kevo_smfc said:

I'd be trying to tie Morgan and Mallan down to longer term deals as a priority, though we will probably not be in a position till safety to do so. Both players will move on to bigger teams I have no doubt, though to safeguard a decent return on two of our best assets is a must.

Plus they will have agent's advising them not to sign a contract extension. Bring back the Jim McLean 10 years contracts it's the only way to beat the agents.

[Paisley brazilians]

1 hour ago, southsidebud said:

 

The ones i would disagree with would be:

5. Gordon - undecided as opposed to out - like to have a chance to see him play again.
8. Quinn - potential squad player (although i grant that injuries are a problem)
15. Baird - Must keep!
16. Loy - meh
19. Stewart - I'd give him a chance to prove himself
23. Fjelde - decent squad player and his name gives squad list a more continental vibe
25. Todd - worth a squad gig.

BTW - I think this is a good thread - it's good fun to talk about the future when, for a change, the future looks good

 

I agree to keep Baird he is a young talent and even to give him a new contract and if we have a strong defence loan him out.it would benefit him and the club. fjelde is a good squad player play's midfield and centre half. keep

[southsidebud]

1 hour ago, saintargyll said:

I thought Loy was outstanding on Saturday

Yep - agreed - he was v good on Saturday as was everyone else. Other games have been a bit less clear cut.

I'm not a hater - I would just like to see a bit more from him before I shout for him to be retained. I think overall he has delivered just about enough to be kept but he has not had the impact I would have hoped for and therefore if he left I would not be overly disappointed (hence 'meh')

That said - if he sticks away a cheeky hat trick on Saturday I will happily revise the above, scrape the egg off my face and make a nice egg sandwich.

Edited April 4, 2017 by southsidebud

[bazil85]

Some interesting comments and debate about first team. It's good to see a large number of first team players either tied down or that fans want to keep, with a few interesting debate points.

With the exception of the obvious leavers we have a pretty solid squad that I hope Ross can keep together after keeping us in the league which I'm very confident about. Who knows we win the next 3 or 4 and results go our way the last 2 or 3 games could be a chance to experiment with the squad players.

Interested to hear more about the youth players? I wanted to get to as many youth games as possible this season but other things have came up. Anyone a regular?

[Soctty]

I think it's very clear that Irvine is much more comfortable at rb. I don't think it's anything to do with better defenders around him. His passing has been completely different, his positioning, his willingness to get forward. Still it isn't a debate about why he's gotten better I'm just glad he has gotten better. The should of done better comment is likely what any player would say first half of the season.

Baird had partnered Mckenzie earlier in the season. His performances have been very similar to Webster in my opinion. Both poor. I know he's came through the youth system and their may be an affection for that but please point me to performances that suggest he can be part of a championship winning/ play off making team? My point is there is likely Better out there.

You're entitled to your opinion. I think it's clear that having better defenders around him and in front of him, and coming back into a team playing well has helped him substantially, and that a short break from the team have him time to recharge batteries and come back with fresh enthusiasm.

Give me an example of Baird's performances being similar to Webster's. Point me to an example, if you will...

[Soctty]

If you want to know what a younger Gary McKenzie was like, look at Jack Baird!

Cannot for the life of me see the basis for letting Baird go. Still young for a centre back, has strength, decent pace, good in the air, and is developing nicely. Can only learn from McKenzie and another good, experienced centre back.

I'm surprised we haven't already tied him down to a new deal.

[Tommy]

I hate those types of threads during the season. What we have is fans telling players they are shit and are not wanted for next season, but also to keep playing out of your skin the now to keep us up.

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Interested to hear more about the youth players? I wanted to get to as many youth games as possible this season but other things have came up. Anyone a regular?

I've been to 7 or 8 home U20 games this season. I think it was easy to see back in August that the two Kyles would break into the 1st team and although Darren Whyte is injured right now, I'm sure he'll be offered a pro contract.
Andrew MacDonald, Cameron McPherson, Connor O'Keefe and Nathan Flanagan are all good prospects who would benefit from being loaned out next season.

[Hambud]

Was it not £20k a week ? 

Aye probably. I think I was getting it mixed up with his goal bonus.

[bazil85]

You're entitled to your opinion. I think it's clear that having better defenders around him and in front of him, and coming back into a team playing well has helped him substantially, and that a short break from the team have him time to recharge batteries and come back with fresh enthusiasm.

 

Give me an example of Baird's performances being similar to Webster's. Point me to an example, if you will...

 

Just have a read at some of the early Match reports this season. He made several costly mistakes

[Soctty]

 
Just have a read at some of the early Match reports this season. He made several costly mistakes

So you can't give an example of Baird's performances being similar to Webster's. Fair enough...

[Lord Pityme]

5 hours ago, bazil85 said:

I think it's very clear that Irvine is much more comfortable at rb. I don't think it's anything to do with better defenders around him. His passing has been completely different, his positioning, his willingness to get forward. Still it isn't a debate about why he's gotten better I'm just glad he has gotten better. The should of done better comment is likely what any player would say first half of the season.

Baird had partnered Mckenzie earlier in the season. His performances have been very similar to Webster in my opinion. Both poor. I know he's came through the youth system and their may be an affection for that but please point me to performances that suggest he can be part of a championship winning/ play off making team? My point is there is likely Better out there.

I always thought, especially through all the games Ross managed where we lost that Gary Irvine was one of a very few really trying. I think he was unfairly targeted because he was/is willing to get stuck in, and that led to him trying to play as a wingback and holding midfielder when we seemed to have neither.

now he has the freedom to play his best position, and take on opposition defenders, hence people are rating him on one job, not the multiple ones he was trying/asked to fulfil.

If we get out of this Ross should be personally thanking Irvine for stepping up and taking a lot of the flak on behalf of his manager!

[MenstrieSaint]

With regards to contracts for some of the youngsters , It would very much depend on how much the contract is for and could we get a better player in for the same wages , if the wage Jack Baird is on is a relatively low one I would keep him , if he is on quite a high wage and the money could be better spent , its time for a change , likewise with regards to Mallan and Morgan , the end of this season might be a good time to offer them new contracts on a better wage . Though I do think we would struggle to keep hold of them .

[bazil85]

So you can't give an example of Baird's performances being similar to Webster's. Fair enough...

No I 100% could but I can't be bothered going back and looking. You're welcome to if you want. If you don't think Baird has had poor games and made costly mistakes I'm assuming you don't go to games. Fair enough

[Soctty]

1 minute ago, bazil85 said:

No I 100% could but I can't be bothered going back and looking. You're welcome to if you want. If you don't think Baird has had poor games and made costly mistakes I'm assuming you don't go to games. Fair enough

 

Ok - you can't be bothered to find examples of Baird's performances being similar to Websters. Gotcha. 

And thanks.

 

[bazil85]

Ok - you can't be bothered to find examples of Baird's performances being similar to Websters. Gotcha. 
And thanks.
 

Dear lord, okay from memory the first Hibs game. No communication with the goalkeeper cost us a goal if I remember. Think match ended 2-0 the Morton game when they beat us 3-1 he was awful. I think he was at fault for at least one when Dunfermline put 4 past us. Not to mention his mentality in the Falkirk game.

We're looking to be stronger next season why don't you give me an example where he showed his league challenging quality? Have a funny feeling i'll be waiting a while for that. [emoji108]

[bazil85]

I wonder why he was dropped so many times if he's been so good and full of potential. Makes sense [emoji849][emoji849]

[Soctty]

1 minute ago, bazil85 said:

 

Dear lord, okay from memory the first Hibs game. No communication with the goalkeeper cost us a goal if I remember. Think match ended 2-0 the Morton game when they beat us 3-1 he was awful. I think he was at fault for at least one when Dunfermline put 4 past us. Not to mention his mentality in the Falkirk game.

We're looking to be stronger next season why don't you give me an example where he showed his league challenging quality? Have a funny feeling i'll be waiting a while for that.

 

Mentality in the Falkirk game? It was a totally out of character action, for which he was punished and has not come close to repeating. Is that what's really behind this nonsense?

 

Hibs game - keeper as much to blame as Baird. McKenzie has been involved in one of these this season too - do we bin him as well?

Morton game - the worst performance by the whole team this season. Had Kyle Hutton masquerading as a defensive midfielder in front of him for the first 45 minutes.

You were hoping Baird was to blame for one of the 4 against Dunfermline, but not according to my memory. Think Quinn passback gave the winner away, other than that just generally poor defensive organisation.

I haven't boasted of his "league challenging quality", I've said he's a very good 3rd choice centre back who will only improve with experience. You've given me 3 dud examples of his defensive frailties, along with a single mix-up which can happen to even seasoned professionals at times.

[Soctty]

19 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I wonder why he was dropped so many times if he's been so good and full of potential. Makes sense

Because the manager wanted experience at the back as we struggled as a team at the bottom of the league rather than a 20 year old. He did prefer Baird to former Scotland international Webster when he needed someone to fill in though, and Baird has done well since then.

[Kemp]

Need to try and keep Stelios, MacKenzie, Davis, Cammy Smith and Eckersley.

I would keep Baird.  Quinn may be worth keeping on as a backup player.

Not seen much from Josh Todd yet, would probably release.

O'Brien, Irvine and Loy at the moment I would release, but we still have 6 or more games to go.  

We really need to invest in a goalscorer next season, Sutton and Loy is not enough for a push on the title (unless its the League 1 title).

Will be great to have Webster and Clarkson off the wage bill.

[bazil85]

Mentality in the Falkirk game? It was a totally out of character action, for which he was punished and has not come close to repeating. Is that what's really behind this nonsense?
 
Hibs game - keeper as much to blame as Baird. McKenzie has been involved in one of these this season too - do we bin him as well?
Morton game - the worst performance by the whole team this season. Had Kyle Hutton masquerading as a defensive midfielder in front of him for the first 45 minutes.
You were hoping Baird was to blame for one of the 4 against Dunfermline, but not according to my memory. Think Quinn passback gave the winner away, other than that just generally poor defensive organisation.
I haven't boasted of his "league challenging quality", I've said he's a very good 3rd choice centre back who will only improve with experience. You've given me 3 dud examples of his defensive frailties, along with a single mix-up which can happen to even seasoned professionals at times.

From memory. So are you trying to tell me if I went back and looked over the highlights of Baird's games this season I would see a 'very good 3rd choice centre back' I'm sceptical

Langfield and Hutton are no longer in first team picture and will likely both be gone next season. As for Mackenzie he's impressed recently and for me has went into the new contract bracket with Irvine. With his injuries early in the season I think he's done very well to come back strong. Baird isn't included in that IMO I think there's reasons he's been dropped and only gotten back into the picture because of injury. Other players that were here early in the season had frustrated but have really uped their performance recently. I don't see it from Baird to be honest.

Nothing I've seen from him suggests he deserves a new deal. Like I said earlier I'd love to be proven wrong in last 6 games.

[FTOF]

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

 

 

No I 100% could but I can't be bothered going back and looking. You're welcome to if you want. If you don't think Baird has had poor games and made costly mistakes I'm assuming you don't go to games. Fair enough

 

You could level that accusation at many of the players this season, with or without Rae.

O'Brien, Mallan, McKenzie, Morgan, Irvine etc.

We get it. You don't rate Baird, but don't make him out to be worse than he actually is.