shull Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 It has been 30 years. Could be at least another 30 years. Not worth installing ludicrous Rail Seating. Maybe they will bring back the Intertoto Cup especially for Lower League duffers like us. RAIL SEATING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 I am sure we could borrow Ibrox for one European Match. You'd Moan about that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 It has been 30 years. Could be at least another 30 years. Not worth installing ludicrous Rail Seating. Maybe they will bring back the Intertoto Cup especially for Lower League duffers like us. RAIL SEATING My point is if we do it, why do it one way (terracing) when you can do it another way that's equally suitable and won't have any attendance issues in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 There are (or should be as that is what we were sold and voted on) only two pots of money that smisa manage. £2 from every members subscriptions for the 3monthly vote (Ross already knows the outcome before the vote.) and all other monies are ringfenced to buy the majority shareholding in SMFC (although as we know the committee broke that constitutional and legislative binding rule by lending £15k for the USH without consulting the members, and the other £50 k they are lending to the club, again without consulting the members). Agree that the way the £2 vote is set is purely to funnel money into the club, it is quite disgusting really the haste with which the club board are grabbing and spending smisa members subscriptions before/without consulting them. we can all see smisa members are ploughing hundreds of thousands into the club... what we cant see is the people spending it (club board members/major shareholder) matching or indeed adding anything to that, as the line we are fed goes "investing in something we are going to inherit".... Smisa's moral compass, purpose and accountability needs to be reset before significant numbers believe its not worth the bother of voting as it only ends up going to what Gordon wants, and then deciding its not worth continuing to fund something you feel doesn't represent your wishes. Out of 780 votes Three hundred and forty eight people DIDN'T vote to pay a club employees wages... The majority of a whopping five hundred and seven people wanted to see the tier 2 vote go to community based projects. When over half the vote dont feel their wish matters it can only end in tears down the line, ask Theresa May. Democratically, fans voted and the two options passed, simple as that. If fans walk away off the back of this then they're extremely shortsighted and IMO it's sour grapes. Already seen a fair few fans falling into this bracket. As for the £15k, it was an interest free loan. Not paying members money, it was time sensitive and a difficult choice SMISA made, the loan has been paid back already (and legally were allowed to, it wasn't from the £2 spend) the £50k was part of the buyout deal and has zero impact on our membership fees or the time in transferring shares to SMISA under fan ownership. Just another thing for fans to moan about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 minute ago, bazil85 said: Democratically, fans voted and the two options passed, simple as that. If fans walk away off the back of this then they're extremely shortsighted and IMO it's sour grapes. Already seen a fair few fans falling into this bracket. As for the £15k, it was an interest free loan. Not paying members money, it was time sensitive and a difficult choice SMISA made, the loan has been paid back already (and legally were allowed to, it wasn't from the £2 spend) the £50k was part of the buyout deal and has zero impact on our membership fees or the time in transferring shares to SMISA under fan ownership. Just another thing for fans to moan about. Its astounding how much you dont actually know. Try reading Smisa's constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Where do you buy hours from ? A 24 hour store Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Democratic vote so no promises broken. The paying members made the choice on what the money would be spent on. SMISA have been completely honest from day one that the spending of the money would be the paying members choice. Also at no point did SMISA say every penny would go to community. Democratic vote? You seem to have omitted other posts regarding how vote is structured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Its astounding how much you dont actually know. Try reading Smisa's constitution. Why don't you sum it up for me? Also you can let me know why the USH loan annoys you... even though we've had the money back and it's almost a full blown guarantee if it went to a vote it would of passed... it was over eight months ago, let's move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 38 minutes ago, bazil85 said: You'd Moan about that as well. We would also be helping Scotland's new and upcoming Club Nae Surrender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 38 minutes ago, bazil85 said: My point is if we do it, why do it one way (terracing) when you can do it another way that's equally suitable and won't have any attendance issues in the future? Cheaper my way. Cheap admission prices for just terracing. Does it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Democratically, fans voted and the two options passed, simple as that. If fans walk away off the back of this then they're extremely shortsighted and IMO it's sour grapes. Already seen a fair few fans falling into this bracket. As for the £15k, it was an interest free loan. Not paying members money, it was time sensitive and a difficult choice SMISA made, the loan has been paid back already (and legally were allowed to, it wasn't from the £2 spend) the £50k was part of the buyout deal and has zero impact on our membership fees or the time in transferring shares to SMISA under fan ownership. Just another thing for fans to moan about. Lets break it down for you then line by line.... You highlight there was a democratic vote, but then go on to attack people for exercising their democratic right to do as they wish. The £15k loan was of course from Smisa members subscriptions, where else did you think it came from? The magic money tree? You say it was a time sensitive, difficult choice. Considering the work wasnt carried out for four months, please explain why that was too time sensitive a window to consult those whose money it is?.. Do you think the bill was paid four months before the work was done? Smisa have to consult their members for any spend above £500 that hasnt already been voted on. The £2 spend is voted on, any other expenditure over £500 has to go to the members. This they have not done that for the £15 k and £50k. The last available info on how the £50k loan would be structured stated it would be a Revolving Credit Facility, in essence the club could still owe the balance of it to smisa on the day the majority shareholding transfers to smisa and say "yeah... you owe yourself £50k there" when you ask "what annoys me" you are missing my point. If Smisa within months breaks all its rules, is seen to be a glove puppet of the club board, reneges on any promise to work for the community, and ignores half of its members wishes then it will start to implode and our club will be thrown into turmoil the like seen only at sevco. i dont want that, nobody wants that whether smisa member or not. We need smisa to not only operate within its constitution and the relevant legislation, but be seen to be doing this too... If you can show me a leaflet, slide or any other document made available to potential Smisa members during BTB that states there will be a £50k RCF made available to the club from all the £12 & £25 subscriptions I will owe you a pint! Edited August 3, 2017 by Lord Pityme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, shull said: Cheaper my way. Cheap admission prices for just terracing. Does it for me. Don't imagine it would be cheaper. ripping out a few seats and putting in rails or ripping up a full stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 27 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: Democratic vote? You seem to have omitted other posts regarding how vote is structured. Right over his head despite being mentioned numerous times. Funny that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 17 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Don't imagine it would be cheaper. ripping out a few seats and putting in rails or ripping up a full stand. Arrange a friendly with Sevco. Sortit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: Lets break it down for you then line by line.... You highlight there was a democratic vote, but then go on to attack people for exercising their democratic right to do as they wish. The £15k loan was of course from Smisa members subscriptions, where else did you think it came from? The magic money tree? You say it was a time sensitive, difficult choice. Considering the work wasnt carried out for four months, please explain why that was too time sensitive a window to consult those money it is?..l. Do you think the bill was paid four months before the work was done? Smisa have to consult their members for any spend above £500 that hasnt already been voted on. The £2 spend is voted on, any other expenditure over £500 has to go to the members. This they have not done for the £15 k and £50k. The last available info on how the £50k loan would be structured stated it would be a Revolving Credit Facility, in essence the club could still owe the balance of it to smisa on the day the majority shareholding transfers to smisa and say "yeah... youve owe yourself £50k there" when you ask "what annoys me" you are missing my point. If Smisa within months breaks all its rules, is seen to be a glove puppet of the club board, reneges on any promise to work for the community, and ignores half of its members wishes then it will start to implode and our club will be thrown into turmoil the like seen at sevco. i dont want that, nobody wants that whether smisa member or not. We need smisa to not only operate within its constitution and the relevant legislation, but be seen to be doing this too... If you can show me a leaflet, slide or any other document made available to potential Smisa members during BTB that states there will be a £50k RCF made available to the club from all the £12 & £25 subscriptions I will owe you a pint! I'm not attacking anyone for their democratic vote, I'm critical of people who are not happy with the results and wanting to tamper with future options. I'm not sure how the £15k could be subscriptions? There wouldn't of been £15k in the pot at that point. My understanding was they wanted to do it for the Morton game, if that isn't the case then fine but the bottom line is it's done. Money paid back no harm or determent to either side, I'd say let it rest IMO. i also fully think if it went to a vote it would of overwhelmingly been a yes I look at this another way, the £50k is a positive, it gives our club a bit of wiggle room for it's budget. Anything that benefits SMFC is fine by me. It's not like the money is being spent of Gordon Scott's Paisley nights out. I think fans very much have to come together and look at the positives in the fan buyout and where we're sitting. SMISA has been able to fund items that benefit our club, have provided vital repair money for USH and a credit facility that makes our financial position as a club that bit more liquid. All positive. Fans whinging about constitutions and this, that and the other? What's the big deal? it isn't SMISA vs St Mirren! Everything that helps the club is a big plus for me. Your point about half the fans not voting for and being ignored. Over 50% voted for the big ticket item so can't see how anyone can moan. To moan about the smaller amount, is just counter productive, it still got more votes than anything else. People were moaning last quarter about lack of choice and now other people are moaning about too much choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 46 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: Democratic vote? You seem to have omitted other posts regarding how vote is structured. Over 50% voted for the big ticket item = democratic. More voted for small ticket item than anything else = democratic As i said above, fans were moaning last quarter because of lack of options, now moaning when there are too many options. St Moan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Too many Novels on this Thread. Losing the will after a few Chapters. Bloody exasperated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, bazil85 said: I'm not attacking anyone for their democratic vote, I'm critical of people who are not happy with the results and wanting to tamper with future options. I'm not sure how the £15k could be subscriptions? There wouldn't of been £15k in the pot at that point. My understanding was they wanted to do it for the Morton game, if that isn't the case then fine but the bottom line is it's done. Money paid back no harm or determent to either side, I'd say let it rest IMO. i also fully think if it went to a vote it would of overwhelmingly been a yes I look at this another way, the £50k is a positive, it gives our club a bit of wiggle room for it's budget. Anything that benefits SMFC is fine by me. It's not like the money is being spent of Gordon Scott's Paisley nights out. I think fans very much have to come together and look at the positives in the fan buyout and where we're sitting. SMISA has been able to fund items that benefit our club, have provided vital repair money for USH and a credit facility that makes our financial position as a club that bit more liquid. All positive. Fans whinging about constitutions and this, that and the other? What's the big deal? it isn't SMISA vs St Mirren! Everything that helps the club is a big plus for me. Your point about half the fans not voting for and being ignored. Over 50% voted for the big ticket item so can't see how anyone can moan. To moan about the smaller amount, is just counter productive, it still got more votes than anything else. People were moaning last quarter about lack of choice and now other people are moaning about too much choice. The first line is the best, basically you want only your version of democracy... given that you continually insist that all the money should go to the club.. if the vote had gone for purely community options would you be spouting how democratically right that is? and to be fair you more or less indicate you dont know much about what governs Smisa, how much was in the bank (still,wondering how smisa loan £15k you insist they didn't have?) or any of the detail really concerning everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 The first line is the best, basically you want only your version of democracy... given that you continually insist that all the money should go to the club.. if the vote had gone for purely community options would you be spouting how democratically right that is? and to be fair you more or less indicate you dont know much about what governs Smisa, how much was in the bank (still,wondering how smisa loan £15k you insist they didn't have?) or any of the detail really concerning everything else. If the vote had been in the favour of community in the same democratic manner I would of been fine with it. Wasn't my choice and I think this is the best for the club but I wouldn't of had any issue with it. Smisa have other money outside of the £12 a month spend. Could it of been from that? Don't see any reason why not. Why does it bother you so much? Interest free loan that's been paid back. Can't you just let it rest and look at the positive side of what SMISA money is doing for our club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 34 minutes ago, bazil85 said: If the vote had been in the favour of community in the same democratic manner I would of been fine with it. Wasn't my choice and I think this is the best for the club but I wouldn't of had any issue with it. Smisa have other money outside of the £12 a month spend. Could it of been from that? Don't see any reason why not. Why does it bother you so much? Interest free loan that's been paid back. Can't you just let it rest and look at the positive side of what SMISA money is doing for our club? Smisa dont have 'other' money. £2 discretionary vote, and the rest ringfenced to buy majority shareholding in SMFC thats it mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 13 hours ago, BuddieinEK said: Agree with others here that although the outcome was democratic and very much as I expected, I would dearly have loved to have done more for the wider community. The club would have reaped rewards at some point in the fufure. Sometimes investing in others is a better long term investment in self! IIRC the last time we voted to get some community groups free season tickets and sponsor a youth team in the community, people were wetting their knickers over that vote. You can't please everyone it would seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 48 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: Smisa dont have 'other' money. £2 discretionary vote, and the rest ringfenced to buy majority shareholding in SMFC thats it mate. I guess my main point mate is, what are your real concerns? Like really deep down about this deal? For me it was never going to be perfect and there were always going to be grey areas and learning curves but ultimately I'm delighted that SMISA has went some way to helping St Mirren football club over different aspects of the clubs wants and needs. They'll learn along the way, the votes have meant the majority of paying fans have ultimately got their way or at least the project with the most votes. I don't see why people are so down on this? https://www.smisa.net/news-archive/5-general-smisa-news/233-smisa-agm-2017-report For example the AGM report, they've came out and pretty much said 'hands up' about the loan. It was positioned as time sensitive and they made a call, it didn't work out that way and it wasn't fixed until later. Now I don't think that's anyone at the club pulling the wool over their eyes, I'm comfortable that it just didn't happen the way the club or SMISA expected. IMO no harm no foul. Money paid back and no big deal. The reason I believe this is because if the club knew it would be later why wouldn't they just say? I don't think anyone can deny that would of passed under the risk of the Morton game being postponed and that it was a zero risk, interest free loan. Also the £50k credit facility, I don't see that as a negative thing in any way shape or form. In fact I think it's very positive we have that facility. If you were setting up a buy-out and your goal (as i think everyone's should be) was to have a deal with the most benefit to our football club, would you not suggest something similar? i know I would. Two more things as well 1. It looks like the deal would of struggled without it and 2. SMISA have not done anything wrong or illegal in setting it up the way they did as per the legal advice comment. Some fans might want to see every detail of the deal but for me the greater good is getting us fan owned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Over 50% voted for the big ticket item = democratic. More voted for small ticket item than anything else = democratic As i said above, fans were moaning last quarter because of lack of options, now moaning when there are too many options. St Moan Ok.You are being selective with my post. I'm not going to go over it and regurgitate what has already been posted by others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 20 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: Ok. You are being selective with my post. I'm not going to go over it and regurgitate what has already been posted by others. So am I right in saying you have an issue with the voting structure? Too many options. The large ticket item still got over 50% of votes anyway so would of passed even if you added all the other votes together. The lower ticket item, are people really squabbling over £900 odd £? It still beat everything else. It's funny, we had people moaning last quarter over there not being enough choice. Can't win with our St Moan fans sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardleysleftovers Posted August 3, 2017 Report Share Posted August 3, 2017 Is bazil85 on the board or just an idiot?.....or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.