faraway saint Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, bazil85 said: It's amazing what constitutes trolling these days Surely you can't be for real? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 13 minutes ago, TsuMirren said: Peter, they haven't been paid the full amount though. Admittedly if they had been paid in full then yes newsworthy etc. Fair enough, though i wasn't to know they hadn't been paid the full amount, you did say "the accelerated payment has been paid" and i took it as one payment based on what the club received for Stevie Mallan, so i'm guessing they didn't get the full amount for Mallan upfront. However I'd like to know how much was paid and what we still owe, not an unreasonable question i'm sure you'll agree, so i'll email it over to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 Just now, faraway saint said: Surely you can't be for real? I would love for you to explain what's so unreal about my stance on SMISA, St Mirren and the fan buyout but I fear you'd keep responding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 Fair enough, though i wasn't to know they hadn't been paid the full amount, you did say "the accelerated payment has been paid" and i took it as one payment based on what the club received for Stevie Mallan, so i'm guessing they didn't get the full amount for Mallan upfront. However I'd like to know how much was paid and what we still owe, not an unreasonable question i'm sure you'll agree, so i'll email it over to the board. That's fair enough Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 51 minutes ago, bazil85 said: I struggle to believe it sometimes reading some of the unbelievably negativity aimed at them. But hey ho, I'm just a happy clapper because I don't want to call my club or the fan group buying it 'amateur' 'a disgrace' 'liars' As St Mirren enter he Pitch tomorrow, just before 3, we will all be happy , clapping and cheering. Only the Drummer and Flag wavers willnae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, bazil85 said: It's amazing what constitutes trolling these days I agree on the misuse of the word trolling on this forum. I'd say you are a businessman who sees things mainly from a business point of view, others (like me) would like to see business and community mixed together in this deal. SMiSA have indeed spent on the community in general, but i for one can see this being put in jeopardy by having a two tier vote and having major club spending options in both tiers, the club spending will almost certainly always win. Incidentally the season tickets bought for community use benefits both the club and the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 55 minutes ago, bazil85 said: I struggle to believe it sometimes reading some of the unbelievably negativity aimed at them. But hey ho, I'm just a happy clapper because I don't want to call my club or the fan group buying it 'amateur' 'a disgrace' 'liars' Sometimes our beloved Club is needing to be telt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, buddiecat said: I agree on the misuse of the word trolling on this forum. I'd say you are a businessman who sees things mainly from a business point of view, others (like me) would like to see business and community mixed together in this deal. SMiSA have indeed spent on the community in general, but i for one can see this being put in jeopardy by having a two tier vote and having major club spending options in both tiers, the club spending will almost certainly always win. Incidentally the season tickets bought for community use benefits both the club and the community. yeah that was a great idea, would be good for future votes something mutually beneficial. Must be plenty of ideas. I work in Risk... So probably right with the business perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmac Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 Myself and a couple of other posters have, from a wee bit back, questioned the way SMISA operate, how they take decisions, are they in accordance with their own rules etc etc. My belief is that we're doing this as we want SMISA to make the correct decisions in line with their own rules and not how they may have operated in days gone by when their was maybe not so many members and the subs coming in were not so significant. Since the buyout, the ante has upped massively and there is now (or should be) an emphasis on good governance - make sure you do what your supposed to do and not what you've always done. Unfortunately, it's not only myself that has seen SMISA floundering on this front - no-one but Kenny communicates; no votes taken at meetings; no numbers taken of those in attendance at the meetings etc. And we're still awaiting Minutes from the last AGM, an AGM that sought to change the rules. Please read the rules to see what is required to actually change the rules. I'm lucky that I'm part of a firm that have recognised experts in their fields (governance; charity law; lending) and I offered to pay for SMISA guys to meet, get advice etc etc. Alas, no SMISA takers (the offer still stands by the way). So what am I (and others) to think when it comes to the 3 monthly spend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted August 4, 2017 Report Share Posted August 4, 2017 Myself and a couple of other posters have, from a wee bit back, questioned the way SMISA operate, how they take decisions, are they in accordance with their own rules etc etc. My belief is that we're doing this as we want SMISA to make the correct decisions in line with their own rules and not how they may have operated in days gone by when their was maybe not so many members and the subs coming in were not so significant. Since the buyout, the ante has upped massively and there is now (or should be) an emphasis on good governance - make sure you do what your supposed to do and not what you've always done. Unfortunately, it's not only myself that has seen SMISA floundering on this front - no-one but Kenny communicates; no votes taken at meetings; no numbers taken of those in attendance at the meetings etc. And we're still awaiting Minutes from the last AGM, an AGM that sought to change the rules. Please read the rules to see what is required to actually change the rules. I'm lucky that I'm part of a firm that have recognised experts in their fields (governance; charity law; lending) and I offered to pay for SMISA guys to meet, get advice etc etc. Alas, no SMISA takers (the offer still stands by the way). So what am I (and others) to think when it comes to the 3 monthly spend? The new constitution has been accepted by Supporters Direct and as far as I'm aware is in the process of going through submission to the FCA. SD are fully aware of how the AGM was run, they had a representative there and we've been nothing but honest with them since. I've even signed the constitution, along with three other committee members. The minutes should be going up on the site along with the constitution, I'll obviously ask again. I communicate because I offered to, it's about as simple as that. I occasionally go to committee members for clarity, the Jack Ross comments at the open day being a prime example. The answer I gave that night was pretty much as per the official answer and the explanation in the vote email. With regards the quarterly spend a bit of trust would be nice for a start. The club suggest options, so we add them on. We also add community items and items from Street Stuff or wherever else. There are a number of items to be discussed at the next meeting, some may be ready for October and others may not. As always said, if you have ideas then pass them on. I genuinely don't think we need legal advice on whether or not we add items to the vote or how we structure it. We tried one structure this time, got moderate comment pre-results then ripped to shreds (by four people on a forum) after the results. There was, of course, genuine debate outwith the noise and that will be taken forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 8 hours ago, TsuMirren said: The new constitution has been accepted by Supporters Direct and as far as I'm aware is in the process of going through submission to the FCA. SD are fully aware of how the AGM was run, they had a representative there and we've been nothing but honest with them since. I've even signed the constitution, along with three other committee members. The minutes should be going up on the site along with the constitution, I'll obviously ask again. I communicate because I offered to, it's about as simple as that. I occasionally go to committee members for clarity, the Jack Ross comments at the open day being a prime example. The answer I gave that night was pretty much as per the official answer and the explanation in the vote email. With regards the quarterly spend a bit of trust would be nice for a start. The club suggest options, so we add them on. We also add community items and items from Street Stuff or wherever else. There are a number of items to be discussed at the next meeting, some may be ready for October and others may not. As always said, if you have ideas then pass them on. I genuinely don't think we need legal advice on whether or not we add items to the vote or how we structure it. We tried one structure this time, got moderate comment pre-results then ripped to shreds (by four people on a forum) after the results. There was, of course, genuine debate outwith the noise and that will be taken forward. Interesting that theirs a new constitution! And that it is going to SD, any chance the actual membership will be consulted on their constitution? Something that probably needs a light shining on it is the validity of including 'Street Stuff' options in the £2 spend vote. Street Stuff is owned and run by the council, the council pay SMFC literally hundreds of thousands of pounds to provide the service to Renfrewshire's youth. It is a fantastic intervention scheme that gets youngsters making positive choices with their free time, leading all the way up to some gaining employment in the scheme. the rub..? When on Smisa's behalf i sought the council and club's buy-in for smisa to become directly involved with ST, and to highlight the great work it, including what the club ST team do in the community whilst consulting with a prospective funder who was looking for this type of positive outcome to enable them to give Smisa a loan and sizeable grant, to complete the buy out of the selling consortium. Both council, and club could not distance themselves faster, and further fron any tie up with Smisa. a few months later to actually be voting to give them funds seems a bit unreal. The club dont need money from smisa for Street Stuff, the council pay them a fortune to run that. What is needed though is a genuine tie/up with local volunteer/Action/Support/Charity groups, who a few hundred pounds donated from the £2 pot would make a huge difference to. The Wheelchair Basketball team being one in particular. Smisa needs to stop being just Gordon's cash cow and actually set its objectives to make a genuine difference in the local community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmac Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 Kenny, i wasn't having a pop, more trying to summarise for baz what had gone on before. This 3 month spend, plenty of choice, can't really complain. For now, it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmac Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 Kenny, my comments re legal help wasn't really for advice on the vote, it was bearing in mind that SMISA in the not too distant future, will be running the show so it was more on good governance in general so as it might avoid issues and make life a bit easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 Interesting that theirs a new constitution! And that it is going to SD, any chance the actual membership will be consulted on their constitution? Something that probably needs a light shining on it is the validity of including 'Street Stuff' options in the £2 spend vote. Street Stuff is owned and run by the council, the council pay SMFC literally hundreds of thousands of pounds to provide the service to Renfrewshire's youth. It is a fantastic intervention scheme that gets youngsters making positive choices with their free time, leading all the way up to some gaining employment in the scheme. the rub..? When on Smisa's behalf i sought the council and club's buy-in for smisa to become directly involved with ST, and to highlight the great work it, including what the club ST team do in the community whilst consulting with a prospective funder who was looking for this type of positive outcome to enable them to give Smisa a loan and sizeable grant, to complete the buy out of the selling consortium. Both council, and club could not distance themselves faster, and further fron any tie up with Smisa. a few months later to actually be voting to give them funds seems a bit unreal. The club dont need money from smisa for Street Stuff, the council pay them a fortune to run that. What is needed though is a genuine tie/up with local volunteer/Action/Support/Charity groups, who a few hundred pounds donated from the £2 pot would make a huge difference to. The Wheelchair Basketball team being one in particular. Smisa needs to stop being just Gordon's cash cow and actually set its objectives to make a genuine difference in the local community. It's the same constitution that the members accepted at the AGM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 I agree on the misuse of the word trolling on this forum. I'd say you are a businessman who sees things mainly from a business point of view, others (like me) would like to see business and community mixed together in this deal. SMiSA have indeed spent on the community in general, but i for one can see this being put in jeopardy by having a two tier vote and having major club spending options in both tiers, the club spending will almost certainly always win. Incidentally the season tickets bought for community use benefits both the club and the community. Trolling in so much as repeating the same thing and getting numerous guys to respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, bazil85 said: It's an open forum. You should try to remember that when folk make points you personally deem to merely be constantly negative club-bashing moaning. Open forum indeed pal. Your words. Keep that in mind. Edited August 5, 2017 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, pozbaird said: You should try to remember that when folk make points you personally deem to merely be constantly negative club-bashing moaning. Open forum indeed pal. Your words. Keep that in mind. You're allowed to disagree with people on an open forum. Look at the previous comments, enough people disagreeing with me for trying to be positive about the club and SMISA. Let's be honest though, hammering the club, hammering SMISA, hammering the voting structure... If you can think of a better word than negative, fill your boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, bazil85 said: You're allowed to disagree with people on an open forum. Look at the previous comments, enough people disagreeing with me for trying to be positive about the club and SMISA. Let's be honest though, hammering the club, hammering SMISA, hammering the voting structure... If you can think of a better word than negative, fill your boots. FFS, you really don't get it. 21 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: Trolling in so much as repeating the same thing and getting numerous guys to respond. Like above you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 Just now, faraway saint said: FFS, you really don't get it. Like above you mean? I'm responding to the message! It was nonsense so my thought process was 'the person doesn't understand' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 A not so Merry Go Round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, shull said: A not so Merry Go Round. The expression, banging my head against a brick wall comes to mind. Certainly repeating myself but I really don't see what's so challenging to get about my point and why I'm the villian for commenting on St Mirren fans hammering our club. Strange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, bazil85 said: The expression, banging my head against a brick wall comes to mind. Certainly repeating myself but I really don't see what's so challenging to get about my point and why I'm the villian for commenting on St Mirren fans hammering our club. Strange Why do you feel the need to, continually, comment on any fans who question the club in any way? Are the official cheerleader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Why do you feel the need to, continually, comment on any fans who question the club in any way? Are the official cheerleader? see below the point I'm about to make 75,000,000,000,000,000,000 times be critical of the club, have feedback, knock yourself out. yes the club isn't perfect it'll make mistakes (especially with a new board in place for just sightly over a year) my only issue is with the sheer negative boo boy manner people do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 28 minutes ago, bazil85 said: see below the point I'm about to make 75,000,000,000,000,000,000 times be critical of the club, have feedback, knock yourself out. yes the club isn't perfect it'll make mistakes (especially with a new board in place for just sightly over a year) my only issue is with the sheer negative boo boy manner people do it! Wish ah hudnae asked. FFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Wish ah hudnae asked. FFS. 75,000,000,01 times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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