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Kombibuddie

The 3 Monthly Spend

43 posts in this topic

I'd agree that it's healthy and correct for the club to propose ideas and for the SMiSA committee to listen to and discuss the ideas, it is then for the committee to decide whether these ideas should go in front of "their" membership. If the committee are doing nothing other than "taking instruction" from the club then they are not operating in an "independent" manner and that is something that would need fixing.

If, however, ideas are put in front of the committee and the committee, further to debate and discussion, decide in a democratic manner to put them to "their" membership then that is right and proper. Only those that are on the committee will truly know if this is the case. If it is the case I would find it pretty unpalatable that "committee members" were then washing their dirty laundry in public because they weren't getting their own way.....time will tell I suppose.

div likes this

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6 minutes ago, div said:

I'd have thought it only natural and sensible that the business we are in the process of buying, and the club we are in the business of supporting, tells us what it is they need help with.

I also thought SMiSA had a rep on the club board, but maybe you can correct me on that?

Vast majority of us are happy to let SMiSA and the club work together on these initiatives. If the club are proposing ideas for consideration and SMiSA take those on board and present them to the members then as far as I'm concerned that's good and healthy. The members still get to decide whether to take them forward, as they have done overwhelmingly in all cases to date.

And here is where because of my experience over decades i cut you some slack on what you may, or may not understand about the type of organisation Smisa is.

it is an organisation that is run for the benefit of the community, (The FCA expects community benefit societies to be run on a democratic one-member-one-vote basis. Application of profits: Any profit made by a community benefit society must be used for the benefit of the community. Unlike a co-operative society, profits cannot be distributed to members of a community benefit society.)

it is an independent orginisation. So it doesnt have to ask the club in every instance "what can we give you money for". It can research, investigate seek counsel on how best it can INVEST monies like the £2 pot in an enterprise that would be supported by members, community and supporters, and be able to provide a sustainable return on investment that its members can chose to fund club, community and member needs from.

What would a simple example of that be? 

something that one quarterly £2 pot would be able to actually get off the ground???

what about the Smisa Snack Shack van outside the ground, and around the town? Think bigger two quarters payments could get the Smisa Cafe up and running....

instead Hof boards that only need a few quid spent to produce decal oveverlays are getting thousands spent on them. Is that where the smart money is?

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This shouldn't be difficult to sort but it really needs input from someone in community development (not football) who is used to speaking with various agencies / organisations and getting things in place, the half assed approach and wasting of funds needs to stop.

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48 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

And here is where because of my experience over decades i cut you some slack on what you may, or may not understand about the type of organisation Smisa is.

it is an organisation that is run for the benefit of the community, (The FCA expects community benefit societies to be run on a democratic one-member-one-vote basis. Application of profits: Any profit made by a community benefit society must be used for the benefit of the community. Unlike a co-operative society, profits cannot be distributed to members of a community benefit society.)

it is an independent orginisation. So it doesnt have to ask the club in every instance "what can we give you money for". It can research, investigate seek counsel on how best it can INVEST monies like the £2 pot in an enterprise that would be supported by members, community and supporters, and be able to provide a sustainable return on investment that its members can chose to fund club, community and member needs from.

What would a simple example of that be? 

something that one quarterly £2 pot would be able to actually get off the ground???

what about the Smisa Snack Shack van outside the ground, and around the town? Think bigger two quarters payments could get the Smisa Cafe up and running....

instead Hof boards that only need a few quid spent to produce decal oveverlays are getting thousands spent on them. Is that where the smart money is?

Don't disagree with any of that. I don't personally think spending £1.5K on Hall of Fame boards was massively sensible use of our money as I assumed any one of the many sponsors in and around the club would have been happy to foot that bill in return for them having an advertisement on said boards.  If I had been asked I'd certainly have considered it as that would have been of far more use to me than sponsoring the corners which hasn't really resulted in anything for my business other than one guy who called and asked if I sold big doors :lol:

It didn't exercise me enough at the time to vote against it right enough, perhaps I'm guilty of being a bit too trigger happy and just agreeing with everything.

 

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41 minutes ago, div said:

Don't disagree with any of that. I don't personally think spending £1.5K on Hall of Fame boards was massively sensible use of our money as I assumed any one of the many sponsors in and around the club would have been happy to foot that bill in return for them having an advertisement on said boards.  If I had been asked I'd certainly have considered it as that would have been of far more use to me than sponsoring the corners which hasn't really resulted in anything for my business other than one guy who called and asked if I sold big doors :lol:

It didn't exercise me enough at the time to vote against it right enough, perhaps I'm guilty of being a bit too trigger happy and just agreeing with everything.

 

So there is a middle ground? A desire to have properly thought out alternatives like the OP's and Melmac's where the smisa membership decide the options they want to consider funding with their money, rather than the club presenting smisa with a list of bills to pay.

the club will always have something they could spend the money on, and they may also disagree with what the smisa members decide to fund, and whether  the funding is invested, saved or spent outwith the walls of the 2021. If those options proposed by members can deliver a potential revenue stream that sees a return, or be ring fenced for the appropriate time to fund a bigger ticket option then that is an absolutely correct, and sustainable outcome of why we all signed up to this project.

it is something I am passionate about, that being the potential smisa members have to transform the club, and the community one step at a time. It does however require bold, fresh and sustainable ideas, and the people willing to back them to achieve their aims.

I am sure if you sat down with Gordon and said, yeah we can give you £1500 for the Hof boards now, or..? Or as an example, Looking at the business plan in front of you we can see Next year we wish to sign a lease on taking over the club shop to turn it into the smisa run Cafe Club Shop returning £xxxx per month in rent and merchandise sales to the club he would bite your hand off for the latter? 

It is just an example, and yes i know they have plans for the shop etc... but there is still a lot of potential to develop,commercial units inside/outside the stadium. This is where the independence of smisa is so important to be seen, heard and acknowledged as an equal business partner, not a source of easy funding. People will in not too long a time frame become "cause weary" if the same old, same old is offered up and stop subscribing. Time I believe to reset the compass.

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2 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

So there is a middle ground? A desire to have properly thought out alternatives like the OP's and Melmac's where the smisa membership decide the options they want to consider funding with their money, rather than the club presenting smisa with a list of bills to pay.

the club will always have something they could spend the money on, and they may also disagree with what the smisa members decide to fund, and whether  the funding is invested, saved or spent outwith the walls of the 2021. If those options proposed by members can deliver a potential revenue stream that sees a return, or be ring fenced for the appropriate time to fund a bigger ticket option then that is an absolutely correct, and sustainable outcome of why we all signed up to this project.

it is something I am passionate about, that being the potential smisa members have to transform the club, and the community one step at a time. It does however require bold, fresh and sustainable ideas, and the people willing to back them to achieve their aims.

I am sure if you sat down with Gordon and said, yeah we can give you £1500 for the Hof boards now, or..? Or as an example, Looking at the business plan in front of you we can see Next year we wish to sign a lease on taking over the club shop to turn it into the smisa run Cafe Club Shop returning £xxxx per month in rent and merchandise sales to the club he would bite your hand off for the latter? 

It is just an example, and yes i know they have plans for the shop etc... but there is still a lot of potential to develop,commercial units inside/outside the stadium. This is where the independence of smisa is so important to be seen, heard and acknowledged as an equal business partner, not a source of easy funding. People will in not too long a time frame become "cause weary" if the same old, same old is offered up and stop subscribing. Time I believe to reset the compass.

Personally I'm happy for my £2 a month to be used for whatever SMiSA think it is for the best. What I think we've seen to date is "here is what we want to do, vote to allow us to do it" whereas I think it might be better if they said "here are x different options for you to consider, please vote for your favourite" which would provide more scope for alternatives.

We've only had three votes at this so far. The Wheelchair platform was a bit of a no-brainer, the transfer kitty one was quite a hot topic and although I was massively in support of that at the time and although it almost certainly helped the managers hand in January, I still think it should have been paid back when the club cashed in on McAllister.

As an aside we still don't really know what happened to the USH situation either. Was it ever fixed, and was the money paid back to SMiSA?

This third vote was the first one that was a bit "meh" for me. It smacked off "we've £8K to spend and we need to spend it on something". I think now is the time to introduce a "bank it" option and save up for something we really need or want. It's what we all tell our kids to do with their pocket money!

So yeah, not all perfect, but it's up to SMiSA to make it work better IMO.

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9 minutes ago, div said:

Personally I'm happy for my £2 a month to be used for whatever SMiSA think it is for the best. What I think we've seen to date is "here is what we want to do, vote to allow us to do it" whereas I think it might be better if they said "here are x different options for you to consider, please vote for your favourite" which would provide more scope for alternatives.

We've only had three votes at this so far. The Wheelchair platform was a bit of a no-brainer, the transfer kitty one was quite a hot topic and although I was massively in support of that at the time and although it almost certainly helped the managers hand in January, I still think it should have been paid back when the club cashed in on McAllister.

As an aside we still don't really know what happened to the USH situation either. Was it ever fixed, and was the money paid back to SMiSA?

This third vote was the first one that was a bit "meh" for me. It smacked off "we've £8K to spend and we need to spend it on something". I think now is the time to introduce a "bank it" option and save up for something we really need or want. It's what we all tell our kids to do with their pocket money!

So yeah, not all perfect, but it's up to SMiSA to make it work better IMO.

Agree with the Disabled platform, as you say no brainer, the transfer kitty option was wrong imo, when i stopped working with the smisa committee a few weeks ago I, and most of the committee still didnt know either if the USH had been fixed..!

It wasnt at the start of March, and given the smisa committee broke their constitution, and breached the legislation governing their organisation by lending that money to the club (the committee exceeded their authority as laid out in the constitution where they must seek approval from the membership for spending above £500. They failed to fully inform the membership of the detail, loan, term, interest, security, risk etc...  in advance. They also failed to consult the membership i.e. Allow a vote based on full information) all in  response to a last minute request by the club, to fix something they knew was broken in July, to prevent the Morton Hogmanay game getting called off.

the loan is being paid back, but given the USH as far as we know certainly wasnt fixed last month, what was the money used for? You dont pay repair bills in advance, and if it aint been fixed presumably you still have the money?

another reason why the Smisa compass needs a reset to ascertain its independence, that way it will serve the club, community and its members much better than being seen as in the clubs pocket. Unfortunately not everyone agrees on that.

there was no mention in the Buy the Buds campaign of continually loaning for whatever the club asks, the funds you thought were ringfenced to buy the majority shareholding, if there were would we have got 1300 sign ups?

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Tbh, i think smisa guys now need to be more visible on here (or are they already?), simply providing one email address for the whole membership to use doesn't cut it, there needs an ongoing conversation and whether the best way to do that is by having a separate members forum, I'm not sure. Beer time, mmm.

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Personally I will give up on voting for the spend as it is presented on such a manner it can barely fail. I was a no for all three ideas this quarter as none of the ideas were good or well thought out. They were passed by large majorities who seemed to just vote as guided. Cannot see the point voting as it seems whatever is proposed will ho through.

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On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 11:06 PM, East Lothian Saint said:

Results out all proposals passed with sizeable majorities.

:withstupid

A total of 845 people voted and results were as follows:

Project one – community season tickets – 673 (80%) voted yes and 172 (20%) voted no.

Project two – hall of fame boards – 589 (70%) voted yes and 256 (30%) voted no.

Project three – youth team sponsorship – 610 (72%) voted yes and 235 (28%) voted no.

I really don't get this at all :Stan whats next a domino team or maybe buy some cricket bats for kelburne

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On 22/04/2017 at 2:01 AM, portmahomack saint said:

I really don't get this at all :Stan whats next a domino team or maybe buy some cricket bats for kelburne

As mentioned before, if more people emailed in with suggestions then we would maybe get more items to vote on.

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There seem to be quite a few folk keen on the idea of rolling the cash over for another three months being an option. Has this been put to the committee and, if so, any idea shwy it hasn't made it onto the vote?

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There seem to be quite a few folk keen on the idea of rolling the cash over for another three months being an option. Has this been put to the committee and, if so, any idea shwy it hasn't made it onto the vote?


Any money not receiving a yes vote does get rolled over. Indeed recent votes have added rolled over funds to the total. That's different to the save option, which has gone to the committee as a direct result of discussion on here. That only happened after the April spend vote, hence it's not made it on to a vote. Will it make it on is a different matter, but members do have email with which to make further contact/reasoning on that and there's the upcoming AGM also.

You can't expect business to be done completely on here or via any other social media outlet. But, it does contribute to the overall picture.
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Members are not asking for business to be done completely on social media, what they want to stop is shite suggestions that bring no real return for the club, minimally involve the community and there being no alternative but voting yes / no. Members need to think bigger.

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Members are not asking for business to be done completely on social media, what they want to stop is shite suggestions that bring no real return for the club, minimally involve the community and there being no alternative but voting yes / no. Members need to think bigger.

 

I never said they were.

 

The season tickets could see people spending money when they come to games. The Youth sponsorship could see people look to join SMISA as we are engaging the community. The hall of fame boards show we listen to the club and put suggestions out there.

 

Everyone needs to think bigger, but part of that involves making proposals and not just raising issues. So far I've passed forward the save option, the possibility to work with the St Mirren Warriors and netting behind the goals during shooting practise. If you have an idea, stop being confrontational and put it forward.

 

With regards the alternative, I can only assume you mean the sense that votes are fait accompli and will go through no matter what. Even saving a portion would involve yes or no. It has to be said that none of it is easy, but each vote to date has as far as I've seen involved member and club engagement. Perhaps the fact this isn't easy is why only 4 people put themselves up for the 7 committee places, I don't know. There are around 1,300 members, with varying expectations, and it's not even a year since Buy the Buds went through. Overall SMISA hasn't done too bad, nobody is saying it's perfect though.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, TsuMirren said:

 

I never said they were.

 

The season tickets could see people spending money when they come to games. The Youth sponsorship could see people look to join SMISA as we are engaging the community. The hall of fame boards show we listen to the club and put suggestions out there.

 

Everyone needs to think bigger, but part of that involves making proposals and not just raising issues. So far I've passed forward the save option, the possibility to work with the St Mirren Warriors and netting behind the goals during shooting practise. If you have an idea, stop being confrontational and put it forward.

 

With regards the alternative, I can only assume you mean the sense that votes are fait accompli and will go through no matter what. Even saving a portion would involve yes or no. It has to be said that none of it is easy, but each vote to date has as far as I've seen involved member and club engagement. Perhaps the fact this isn't easy is why only 4 people put themselves up for the 7 committee places, I don't know. There are around 1,300 members, with varying expectations, and it's not even a year since Buy the Buds went through. Overall SMISA hasn't done too bad, nobody is saying it's perfect though.

 

 

 

I would add to that by stating the 4 people putting their names up were all members who already attend meetings, no new candidates means no real change. I was hoping for  new faces and am disappointed that people want to voice their disapproval of decisions on here, but do not contact to offer suggestions and or their disapproval.

I would welcome an online chat facility for members which could be treated in an official manner,dedicated for members only, otherwise we could have non saints fans putting in their own agendas. That will not happen though because nobody new is coming on board, and there will only ever be one or two committee members commenting/answering questions on here.

 

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A few extra pie n bovril's and the possibility of a couple o folk joining smisa in a years time wouldn't, i would suggest, represent good value for the outlays.

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A few extra pie n bovril's and the possibility of a couple o folk joining smisa in a years time wouldn't, i would suggest, represent good value for the outlays.


But, then, we could spend 40K on safe standing and get much the same result. You could probably say the same of a lot of things. As said already, not easy and all members are free to make suggestions. Heck, non-members can make suggestions. Indeed the fact we'd like suggestions should be the easiest part of all of this.

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