General Election 8th June

[oaksoft]

19 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Ok but if we do go it alone u want it based on one battle in 1306?

In case you didn't know, we lost the war, several times....... Its crap like above that actually prevents Independence

Bannockburn? 1306?

Dear oh dear.

[East Lothian Saint]

33 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Ok but if we do go it alone u want it based on one battle in 1306?

In case you didn't know, we lost the war, several times....... Its crap like above that actually prevents Independence

 

15 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

U could be right................. NS played a good card by asking for Indy2 but May just played a better one.............. this is all a game and whilst the politians seek their power the country goes to hell................. but hey whats new..............

Personally I hope the Greens win, so they don't have polices, who cares, cause policies are just lies made up to get votes.... Call me a cynic but as you said earlier we have voted on something so called massive at least every year for the last 4.

The SNP  wont get 56 seats, Tories will gain as will Liberals, and I have to say the wee voice in the corner in Westminster is so ineffective , so I see Ruth the Untruth being the new boss in town

Actually the first Official UK king was Scottish but like 1314 I take your point  1603 is fairly irrelevant too.

The point I'm trying to make here is that IMO the scots have two choices.

Vote SNP for independence or Vote Tory for a United UK ready to take on Brexit.

There is no middle Ground and anything else is a wasted vote.

Ruth The Untruth may well raise her profile

Edited April 19, 2017 by East Lothian Saint

[East Lothian Saint]

29 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Bannockburn? 1306?

Dear oh dear.

In Doug's defence I'm sure there was a minor scrap  in 1305 before the big one in 1314

Did wee Wullie no batter Big Eddie

Edited April 19, 2017 by East Lothian Saint

[shull]

57 minutes ago, shull said:

The Sevco working and underclass have only the Conservatives to vote for. 

Heads exploding. 

Masses are indeed Asses 

Have none of them an independent thought of their own ? 

They do what their fellow football bigots tell them. 

What a Country 

Square Go At George Square 

Bring a flag 

Fannies 

Most of my punters wish to be taken to Georges Square or is it George's Square. 

[East Lothian Saint]

2 minutes ago, shull said:

Most of my punters wish to be taken to Georges Square or is it George's Square. 

George Square

[shull]

1 minute ago, East Lothian Saint said:

George Square

Oh dear 

[shull]

19 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

In Doug's defence I'm sure there was a minor scrap there in 1306 before the big one in 1314

Did big John no batter wee bob

1645, Saturday, Battle of Tannadice 

 

More relevant 

[East Lothian Saint]

23 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

In Doug's defence I'm sure there was a minor scrap  in 1305 before the big one in 1314

Did wee Wullie no batter Big Eddie

Actually I'm Talking shite

Wee Wullie got done in 1305. For doing big John in 1297

4 minutes ago, shull said:

1645, Saturday, Battle of Tannadice 

 

More relevant 

That was Charlie but no charlie Nicholas against Oliver

Ah wait a minute 16:45pm Saturday

I wis almost stupit enough to be a Sevco fan there

[Drew]

1 hour ago, pozbaird said:

Don't get me wrong, the SNP would be a bit weird if they weren't pursuing independence. It's their ultimate reason for being. The initial Indy reffyrendum started off as an interesting debate, and ended up bitter and divisive. They'd lose another one, if held at this messed-up time. They just won't step back and let it go though. To win, the 'yes' campaign need swathes of 'casual' voters who aren't strongly political to get off their arses in huge numbers and vote yes. In my opinion, they are alienating the people they need - to join up with the more committed 'yes' voters. I sense my own current attitude of 'fcuk sake, not another fcuking election' is being replicated in many households. The divisive Indy1, the divisive Brexit vote, now a snap Tory general election and Sturgeon gagging for Indy2?

The SNP will get pumped in any Indy2 vote, if held any time soon.

I can see some logic in this argument, but you're failing to factor in a very large constituency of the electorate - young folk. They are less likely to be jaded and disaffected. They have a longer future to consider, and are generally far less conservative (small 'c') than their parents and grandparents. You just need to look at any breakdown in voting demography to see this.

One of the main reasons I voted YES was because my kids strongly believe it is the best thing for their future. Likewise, my remain vote in the EU referendum. I am, of course, capable of independent thought, but I think the best gift we can give the generations that come after us is greater scope to determine how their future plays out.

My kids' future, and the futures of their generation is more important to me than my own. Young folk face huge challenges, and I reckon they deserve access to every means by which they believe they can most successfully meet those challenges.

 

[antrin]

27 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

 

That was Charlie but no charlie Nicholas against Oliver

Ah wait a minute 16:45pm Saturday

 

And I don't think much happened in 1645 either.

Other than The Great Plague and some skirmishes(battles) with Covenanters such as Philiphaugh and Inverlochy with Montrose doing his star turn...

 

Charlie Chaplin wasn't even a twinkle in his Dad's eye at the time, nor even his Dad being a twinkle in HIS Dad's eye...

[Soctty]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

There will always be people in need.

Our benefits system is as generous as it ever has been historically but apparently it is still not enough.

I am certain that we could pay everyone £30k per year in benefits and foodbanks and payday lenders would still be getting used.

What a pompous, patronising response. I expected little else. 

 

But you're alright, so everything is fine.

[East Lothian Saint]

8 minutes ago, Drew said:

I can see some logic in this argument, but you're failing to factor in a very large constituency of the electorate - young folk. They are less likely to be jaded and disaffected. They have a longer future to consider, and are generally far less conservative (small 'c') than their parents and grandparents. You just need to look at any breakdown in voting demography to see this.

One of the main reasons I voted YES was because my kids strongly believe it is the best thing for their future. Likewise, my remain vote in the EU referendum. I am, of course, capable of independent thought, but I think the best gift we can give the generations that come after us is greater scope to determine how their future plays out.

My kids' future, and the futures of their generation is more important to me than my own. Young folk face huge challenges, and I reckon they deserve access to every means by which they believe they can most successfully meet those challenges.

 

From what I can see and I haven't done much research most under 25's in Scotland voted no to independence and no to Brexit.

Staying part of the UK is still on the table but our remaining as a European partner with the costs or benefits we currently have is not going to happen.

We get feck all leadership or Guidance from the politicians and it's the same old story that has been replayed through the ages

Not much has changed since we were young  Apart from the fact we are no longer the kids.

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

WHO said that!

 

 

 

[pozbaird]

50 minutes ago, Drew said:

I can see some logic in this argument, but you're failing to factor in a very large constituency of the electorate - young folk. They are less likely to be jaded and disaffected. They have a longer future to consider, and are generally far less conservative (small 'c') than their parents and grandparents. You just need to look at any breakdown in voting demography to see this.

One of the main reasons I voted YES was because my kids strongly believe it is the best thing for their future. Likewise, my remain vote in the EU referendum. I am, of course, capable of independent thought, but I think the best gift we can give the generations that come after us is greater scope to determine how their future plays out.

My kids' future, and the futures of their generation is more important to me than my own. Young folk face huge challenges, and I reckon they deserve access to every means by which they believe they can most successfully meet those challenges.

 

You strongly believe independence to be the best option for the future. An alternative argument could easily be made that remaining part of the United Kingdom is the best option for the future. Unless you can fire up the DeLorean and set the controls for fifty years down the line, then there's no way of knowing. Hence, I'm sticking to my guns - I am only responsible for where I mark my X. I'll do that using the knobcheese or not method. The result / bigger picture / best option for the future I cannot affect. Just my wee X in a box.

[Drew]

5 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

You strongly believe independence to be the best option for the future.

Ah, now, you see, you've misread/misinterpreted my post, and hence the very crux of my position

 

[BuddieinEK]

Ah, now, you see, you've misread/misinterpreted my post, and hence the very crux of my position:wink:
 

As have I Drew.

If that is not the case then the alternative is that your kids think that is best and despite believing differently you will forsake your democratic right to let them make what you believe to be the wrong decision. No?

[East Lothian Saint]

8 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

You strongly believe independence to be the best option for the future. An alternative argument could easily be made that remaining part of the United Kingdom is the best option for the future. Unless you can fire up the DeLorean and set the controls for fifty years down the line, then there's no way of knowing. Hence, I'm sticking to my guns - I am only responsible for where I mark my X. I'll do that using the knobcheese or not method. The result / bigger picture / best option for the future I cannot affect. Just my wee X in a box.

Sounds like a choice between Nicky is she a Knobcheese or Theresa is she a Knobcheese

Independent Knob Cheese or Stand United Knobcheese

A vote for any other Knobcheese is just Smeg.

 

X

[BuddieinEK]

Two years ago today I posted this. I believe it still to be as relevant today.

Interestingly, It created much discussion, a lot of criticism, and a few cases of "unfriending"!

I was brought up in a time when your vote was a private thing. Something you just didn't discuss.

As the great prophet Dylan said tho... the times they are a changin'.

This is a good thing... many more people are politically aware. But many more have as much apathy as ever, and that is understandable.

I have said nothing in public to date... but I am genuinely concerned.

Of course I know that this will be sheer heresay to some of my friends... possibly end up in some unfriending.... ... though I hope not. We can disagree without being disagreeable.

Cards on the table time...

I still don't know who I will vote for... but I know who I can't vote for in a General election.

SNP.

I have voted SNP at a local level a number of times. At a local level, their representatives are by far the best and most effective. Streets ahead.

At a national level, I am totally in awe at their campaign over the last decade.

Their use of social media and public interaction has been genius and actually quite refreshing.

The current campaign is also incredibly well structured. Vote SNP and our Westminster MPs will make the baddies accountable. Genius.

If SNP stood for what is best for Scotland full stop, I'd join the party myself.

But it doesn't. It will always have an ultimate aim of breaking up the UK. I'd much rather reform it, redistribute the powerbase, and increase regional autonomy.

More SNP MP's will result in carnage in Westminster... they will do all they can to create anti-Scottish feelings throughout the UK, then using the anti-Scottish rhetoric within Scotland to enhance the campaign for independence.

Just watch... that has already begun.

Genius. Dangerous... but genius.

Nicola Sturgeon can pull it off too... the perfect public speaker and infinitely more likeable than her predecessor to non SNP voters.

Despite the denials, a vote for SNP IS a vote in favour of independence. Even if you don't want that or believe that to be so. It will be used as such.

[East Lothian Saint]

28 minutes ago, Drew said:

Ah, now, you see, you've misread/misinterpreted my post, and hence the very crux of my position

 

I had you down a a Nat too. You're not exactly clarifying the way forward.

Are you a politician?

Edited April 19, 2017 by East Lothian Saint

[Drew]

8 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

 

As have I Drew.

If that is not the case then the alternative is that your kids think that is best and despite believing differently you will forsake your democratic right to let them make what you believe to be the wrong decision. No?

Hmm. In what way would I be forsaking my democratic right? Surely I would be exercising exactly that - my right to vote in the way I choose, based on any reasoning I opt to employ.

The point is that, as I've already explained (probably ineffectively), my main driver in voting on long term constitutional issues is the future of younger and future generations. It will, after all, impact upon their lives in a more enduring way. I'm influenced in doing this by what I understand to be the prevailing sentiment of those generations (that's not to say I couldn't be calling that inaccurately, of course). Certainly, my desire to do the right thing by my children guides me to be influenced by their vision of the type of country they want to live in.

As a rule, I would approach the election of governing administrations in a different way. They are short term, temporary arrangements. A completely different proposition to hugely significant constitutional decisions.

[Drew]

16 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

I had you down a a Nat too. You're not exactly clarifying the way forward.

Are you a politician?

Define 'Nat'.

[scottd]

2 hours ago, East Lothian Saint said:

 

Actually the first Official UK king was Scottish but like 1314 I take your point  1603 is fairly irrelevant too.

The point I'm trying to make here is that IMO the scots have two choices.

Vote SNP for independence or Vote Tory for a United UK ready to take on Brexit.

There is no middle Ground and anything else is a wasted vote.

Ruth The Untruth may well raise her profile

Brexit is such an unmitigated clusterf**k that why anyone would want to unite behind it is beyond me.  Seeing the UK bring turned into an offshore version of the USA is the last straw for me and I can no longer back the UK in anything, the people who voted for Brexit deserve all that's coming their way.

[scottd]

Just now, Drew said:

Define 'Nat'.

Evil separatist who needs to be destroyed to allow Empire 2.0 to proceed.

[saintnextlifetime]

11 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Two years ago today I posted this. I believe it still to be as relevant today.

Interestingly, It created much discussion, a lot of criticism, and a few cases of "unfriending"!

I was brought up in a time when your vote was a private thing. Something you just didn't discuss.

As the great prophet Dylan said tho... the times they are a changin'.

This is a good thing... many more people are politically aware. But many more have as much apathy as ever, and that is understandable.

I have said nothing in public to date... but I am genuinely concerned.

Of course I know that this will be sheer heresay to some of my friends... possibly end up in some unfriending.... ... though I hope not. We can disagree without being disagreeable.

Cards on the table time...

I still don't know who I will vote for... but I know who I can't vote for in a General election.

SNP.

I have voted SNP at a local level a number of times. At a local level, their representatives are by far the best and most effective. Streets ahead.

At a national level, I am totally in awe at their campaign over the last decade.

Their use of social media and public interaction has been genius and actually quite refreshing.

The current campaign is also incredibly well structured. Vote SNP and our Westminster MPs will make the baddies accountable. Genius.

If SNP stood for what is best for Scotland full stop, I'd join the party myself.

But it doesn't. It will always have an ultimate aim of breaking up the UK. I'd much rather reform it, redistribute the powerbase, and increase regional autonomy.

More SNP MP's will result in carnage in Westminster... they will do all they can to create anti-Scottish feelings throughout the UK, then using the anti-Scottish rhetoric within Scotland to enhance the campaign for independence.

Just watch... that has already begun.

Genius. Dangerous... but genius.

Nicola Sturgeon can pull it off too... the perfect public speaker and infinitely more likeable than her predecessor to non SNP voters.

Despite the denials, a vote for SNP IS a vote in favour of independence. Even if you don't want that or believe that to be so. It will be used as such.

I actually preferred wee nicky's predecessor , just a personal preference. 

My father predicted that the EEC would become a union of nations back when we had the first referendum , which it did of course . Right now l think the Scottish Parliament is a mess and not just on the outside. I have never understood Independence in Europe and surely that mantra should be dropped considering the current position of the U.K. and the disarray that is Europe.

 

 

[scottd]

7 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said:

I actually preferred wee nicky's predecessor , just a personal preference. 

My father predicted that the EEC would become a union of nations back when we had the first referendum , which it did of course . Right now l think the Scottish Parliament is a mess and not just on the outside. I have never understood Independence in Europe and surely that mantra should be dropped considering the current position of the U.K. and the disarray that is Europe.

 

 

So it is fine for Scotland to be subsumed in a union of nations but bad when it happens, to a far lesser degree, to the UK?

The Scottish Parliament may well be a 'mess' but returning to direct London rule doesn't bear thinking about.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by scottd

[East Lothian Saint]

3 minutes ago, Drew said:

Define 'Nat'.

There will no doubt be many different interpretations but in my mind a Nat or Nationalist in Scotland is someone who votes SNP because they want independence as opposed to the one's who voted SNP tactically either to Protest or oust Labour.

Those who voted YES in the referendum were not necessarily Nats. Voting was a duty and they had to vote something. It might just have seemed a good option at the time.

Voting SNP isn't being a Nat