Players loaned back

[sally02]

It will be a busy summer for the management team trying to sign up the existing squad for next season, but inevitably the likes of Mallan, Morgan, McGennis are going to attract interest from bigger clubs. (Think the older lads might be convinced to give it another season anyway to savour more of the euphoria experienced recently.)

But all might not be lost.

If these players are sold and leave us, it would make tremendous sense to convince the buying club(s) that the player(s) should be loaned back to us on the strength of the team performances and progression made in the second half of our season. Much better to let these youngsters develop within a confident, close-knit unit with a great chance of challenging for promotion next season, and maturing in familiar surroundings, than slotting them into huge squad where they may or may not develop as quickly for the buying club.

If the management sat down with any potential buyers and showed them the quality of football Saints have played since the end of the transfer window, it would be a very strong argument for continuing the youngsters development within that special environment.

So if approached well, the club may be able to receive good money for the players, and benefit from retaining the players moving forward next season.

I think we should certainly try to deal with other clubs on the above basis.  In Jack we trust. COYS

Edited May 1, 2017 by sally02

[madball]

Mallan and Morgan are now old enough that if clubs come in for them they would be expected to be challenging for 1st team places at their new club, so unless it wasn't to work OK there we wouldn't see back. Magennis on the other hand could go and be loaned back, however as with McAllister it may be a club think that their coaching at youth level is better than 1st team action. FWIW I think that unless silly offers come in we will hang onto as the three could be more important to us than the money (particularly if Mcginn or McLean move on from Aberdeen and Hibs given sell-on clauses)

[David Mc]

Think too that the cup runs and McAllister fee puts us in a good place. Plus the increased crowds and possibly kit sales/sponsorship on top of that. Manager's reputation also an undoubted attraction. Look at how Cammy has done here compared with United.

[stlucifer]

11 minutes ago, David Mc said:

Think too that the cup runs and McAllister fee puts us in a good place. Plus the increased crowds and possibly kit sales/sponsorship on top of that. Manager's reputation also an undoubted attraction. Look at how Cammy has done here compared with United.
 

If rumours are true that the players gave up the chance of a cup win bonus to put it all on a saving our league position bonus then, if we stay in the division, a fair whack of that could be going in bonuses

Edited May 1, 2017 by stlucifer
To correct schoolboy spelling error

[Drew]

4 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

If rumours are ture that the players gave up the chance of a cup win bonus to put it all on a saving our league position bonus then, if we stay in the division, a fair whack of that could be going in bonuses

If they finish the job, I, for one, wouldn't grudge them it.

[bazil85]

Would be fine with a lot of that money going on bonus. I still think financially we'll be in a very positive position next year and would be happy with the bonuses being replicate with an 'achieve promotion' bonus. As said above McLean and McGinn likely to move on as well will be more funds and higher and anticipated crowds.

As for the players being loaned back, it's difficult to know at this stage but I think the only potential would be if Magennis went and he's still got 2 years to run anyway. Can't wait to secure Championship status and see what contract talks are opened up. I think the priority is tying Irvine, McKenzie Eck down and seeing about realism in Smith, Loy coming back. O'Brien I would sign but we also need to bring in an experienced goalkeeper to challenge him. Stelios I believe has a year option which will be triggered if we stay up.

[Dave The Buddie]

I honestly only see Mallan and Morgan go this summer and they deserve it.

It's a little early I feel for Magennis. Magennis could do with at least two more season with us before making a move. I always say get 100 games playing regularly then move.

Even though we couldn't knock back the money from Derby I hope young McAllister was not ill advised taking his move too soon. I hope I am wrong but I can see young McAllister rot away in the Derby development squad then get loaned out to a League 2 side down south some point next season they drift around the lower league down south then 3 years later coming back up the road looking to rebuild his career.

McGinn & McLean did it the right way

[stlucifer]

7 minutes ago, Dave The Buddie said:

I honestly only see Mallan and Morgan go this summer and they deserve it.

It's a little early I feel for Magennis. Magennis could do with at least two more season with us before making a move. I always say get 100 games playing regularly then move.

Even though we couldn't knock back the money from Derby I hope young McAllister was not ill advised taking his move too soon. I hope I am wrong but I can see young McAllister rot away in the Derby development squad then get loaned out to a League 2 side down south some point next season they drift around the lower league down south then 3 years later coming back up the road looking to rebuild his career.

McGinn & McLean did it the right way

This new board seem to be forward thinking so perhaps a decent promotion carrot for the players might see some remain. Also. Given the change in management perhaps we could  try to convince Derby Kyle would improve under JR's stewardship. In fact he doesn't seem to be part of their plans going forward so I'd watch out for the lad being released at the end of the season and we could snap him up for nowt.

[madball]

Even though we couldn't knock back the money from Derby I hope young McAllister was not ill advised taking his move too soon. I hope I am wrong but I can see young McAllister rot away in the Derby development squad then get loaned out to a League 2 side down south some point next season they drift around the lower league down south then 3 years later coming back up the road looking to rebuild his career.

McGinn & McLean did it the right way

I see McAllister as being more like Ryan Fraser than Fraser Fyvie in that he'll go and graft and try and take advantage of opportunities rather than thinking he's made it. And if that means going on loan I think that will help him.

[sally02]

If Mallan or Morgan were the interest of clubs in our premiership, I know they wouldn't be loaned back as both are good enough to hold down a first team place in any club with the possible exception of Aberdeen and certainly Celtic. My reasoning is on the basis that both these guys are good enough to be considered by English championship clubs, but on a squad member level. Just feel in that scenario it would  benefit the buying club and the player if left to develop under Jack and James in our now very positive environment.

Regarding McGennis, not 19 till August, I think he is one of the most promising talents to have surfaced not only at our club, but in Scotland in the last number of years. He has the skill, the pace, the determination, and the intelligence to develop into an all round polished player at the top level. It would not surprise me if a club down south show an interest in him this summer.

With the Academy under Allan, and the undoubted support and encouragement from Jack and James, it seems we now have a credible platform to produce home bred talent to to bring future success to the club.

From his time here as a player, Jack Ross knew when he took the job on that our club had both the tools and the potential to grow, and would give hime a great opportunity to progress  as a manager. We are now nearer a repeat of the heady days of Fergie than ever before.

[Dave The Buddie]

I see McAllister as being more like Ryan Fraser than Fraser Fyvie in that he'll go and graft and try and take advantage of opportunities rather than thinking he's made it. And if that means going on loan I think that will help him.

I bet Fraser Fyvie wished he never moved so quickly from Aberdeen. Took him three years to get playing with Hibs. Scott Allan is similar only thing with him is that he has made the wrong twice. Leaving Dundee Utd too early then when he was getting back on track with Hibs jumped again.

Another two examples of doing it right and playing nearly 100 games for Falkirk are Stephen Kingsley and Jay Fulton who are featuring for the Swansea first team.

Ryan Fraser has been exception to the rule. With one Fraser you get ten Fraser Fyvie's.

If I am being honest Morgan could do with another season with us but Mallan is 100% ready to move on and deserves it.

[shull]

A bonus for avoiding relegation. 

Dear oh dear. 

[scrappy coco]

9 minutes ago, sally02 said:

If Mallan or Morgan were the interest of clubs in our premiership, I know they wouldn't be loaned back as both are good enough to hold down a first team place in any club with the possible exception of Aberdeen and certainly Celtic. My reasoning is on the basis that both these guys are good enough to be considered by English championship clubs, but on a squad member level. Just feel in that scenario it would  benefit the buying club and the player if left to develop under Jack and James in our now very positive environment.

Regarding McGennis, not 19 till August, I think he is one of the most promising talents to have surfaced not only at our club, but in Scotland in the last number of years. He has the skill, the pace, the determination, and the intelligence to develop into an all round polished player at the top level. It would not surprise me if a club down south show an interest in him this summer.

With the Academy under Allan, and the undoubted support and encouragement from Jack and James, it seems we now have a credible platform to produce home bred talent to to bring future success to the club.

From his time here as a player, Jack Ross knew when he took the job on that our club had both the tools and the potential to grow, and would give hime a great opportunity to progress  as a manager. We are now nearer a repeat of the heady days of Fergie than ever before.

There's the risk of sounding that your jumping the gun, but I don't think your too far from the truth here, it's been a

long long time since Iv'e seen everyone connected with the club pulling in the same direction, the feel good factor

right now is as good as it was when we were winning the league under Hendrie, although there were great times

under Gus and Danny there always seemed to be a cloud hanging over the club, the only problem now is we could

soon lose some of the young gems that's helped get us in to this position, but remember the same thing happened

during the Fergie/JC/RM days  when we lost the likes of Fitsy, Mcgarvey, Reid, Stark, Weir, McDougall I could go on

but we always bounced back, I wouldn't grudge Mallan or Morgan the chance of a big move but I just hope they don't

disappear to some Championship reserve team, there far too good for that...

[stlucifer]

10 minutes ago, scrappy coco said:

There's the risk of sounding that your jumping the gun, but I don't think your too far from the truth here, it's been a

long long time since Iv'e seen everyone connected with the club pulling in the same direction, the feel good factor

right now is as good as it was when we were winning the league under Hendrie, although there were great times

under Gus and Danny there always seemed to be a cloud hanging over the club, the only problem now is we could

soon lose some of the young gems that's helped get us in to this position, but remember the same thing happened

during the Fergie/JC/RM days  when we lost the likes of Fitsy, Mcgarvey, Reid, Stark, Weir, McDougall I could go on

but we always bounced back, I wouldn't grudge Mallan or Morgan the chance of a big move but I just hope they don't

disappear to some Championship reserve team, there far too good for that...

None of the players you mention were sold during Fergie's reign though. In fact. The story going around was that was the very reason Todd wanted rid of Sir Alex.

[sally02]

2 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

None of the players you mention were sold during Fergie's reign though. In fact. The story going around was that was the very reason Todd wanted rid of Sir Alex.

That was my memory of it!

[northstbuddie]

Can we afford not to offer most of the above named players contracts which might persuade them to stay at St Mirren for next season at least?

Yes if they maintain current performance levels they are certs to go on to better things elsewhere - i.e. earn more money than they ever could in Paisley.

However, Gordon Scott and the other directors must be aware that we now have the makings of a squad which would be favourites to win the Championship outright next season.

England is full of young Scottish players whose careers have faltered because they did not move at the right time in their development.

A successful St Mirren team should be filling the present stadium every week - we are now about to breech the 5,000+ figure based on current performances and if we were striving for promotion next season instead of trying to avoid relegation we should be generating enough income to fund attractive wages for the management (including Alan McManus) and the players.

I was criticised by some a few months ago for mentioning Sir Alec and Jack Ross in the same sentence (although I was not at that time making a direct comparison). However, as mentioned by others, there is now a level of optimism surrounding the club which has not been seen since the Ferguson era.

This time let's not miss this golden opportunity to take things forward to a new level!

[stlucifer]

46 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

Can we afford not to offer most of the above named players contracts which might persuade them to stay at St Mirren for next season at least?

Yes if they maintain current performance levels they are certs to go on to better things elsewhere - i.e. earn more money than they ever could in Paisley.

However, Gordon Scott and the other directors must be aware that we now have the makings of a squad which would be favourites to win the Championship outright next season.

England is full of young Scottish players whose careers have faltered because they did not move at the right time in their development.

A successful St Mirren team should be filling the present stadium every week - we are now about to breech the 5,000+ figure based on current performances and if we were striving for promotion next season instead of trying to avoid relegation we should be generating enough income to fund attractive wages for the management (including Alan McManus) and the players.

I was criticised by some a few months ago for mentioning Sir Alec and Jack Ross in the same sentence (although I was not at that time making a direct comparison). However, as mentioned by others, there is now a level of optimism surrounding the club which has not been seen since the Ferguson era.

This time let's not miss this golden opportunity to take things forward to a new level!

Even better is the fact, IF JR proves to be the next generation Fergie, we have a board unlikely to kybosh his ambitions.

[bazil85]

A bonus for avoiding relegation. 
Dear oh dear. 

In the position we were in half way through the season? I think that it completely justified bonus for players coming in.

[stlucifer]

6 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

 

In the position we were in half way through the season? I think that it completely justified bonus for players coming in.

 

Shull thinks they should have been forced to accept a pie and bus fare home for the privilege of trying to overturn a 19 point deficit.

[bazil85]

Shull thinks they should have been forced to accept a pie and bus fare home for the privilege of trying to overturn a 19 point deficit.

Glad he's not in charge, we'd of patched the fan ownership and have been down by February [emoji23]

[nedflanders123]

1 hour ago, northstbuddie said:

Can we afford not to offer most of the above named players contracts which might persuade them to stay at St Mirren for next season at least?

Yes if they maintain current performance levels they are certs to go on to better things elsewhere - i.e. earn more money than they ever could in Paisley.

However, Gordon Scott and the other directors must be aware that we now have the makings of a squad which would be favourites to win the Championship outright next season.

England is full of young Scottish players whose careers have faltered because they did not move at the right time in their development.

A successful St Mirren team should be filling the present stadium every week - we are now about to breech the 5,000+ figure based on current performances and if we were striving for promotion next season instead of trying to avoid relegation we should be generating enough income to fund attractive wages for the management (including Alan McManus) and the players.

I was criticised by some a few months ago for mentioning Sir Alec and Jack Ross in the same sentence (although I was not at that time making a direct comparison). However, as mentioned by others, there is now a level of optimism surrounding the club which has not been seen since the Ferguson era.

This time let's not miss this golden opportunity to take things forward to a new level!

I would argue that the Jim Clunie era was the last time we had the feel good factor, in the SPL, finishing ahead of Rangers and players like Somner, Clarke, Wilson, McDougall, Copeland etc. 

[shull]

Feck all pie. 

[scrappy coco]

37 minutes ago, nedflanders123 said:

I would argue that the Jim Clunie era was the last time we had the feel good factor, in the SPL, finishing ahead of Rangers and players like Somner, Clarke, Wilson, McDougall, Copeland etc. 

I think Clarke and Wilson were after the Clunie era, we had it good under Ricky McFarlane aswell IMO..

[northstbuddie]

53 minutes ago, scrappy coco said:

I think Clarke and Wilson were after the Clunie era, we had it good under Ricky McFarlane aswell IMO..

I would not disagree that life was good under the managements of Clunie and McFarlane but I would argue that they maintained the standards set by Ferguson.

Talking of Jim Clunie - it could also be argued that no one person has contributed more to the wellbeing of St Mirren in his roles as firstly player of outstanding ability (for a centre half) and then as a manager when we enjoyed one of our most successful spells in the top four in Scotland at a time when Aberdeen and Dundee United were starting to overtake the old firm.

In fact, I look on his omission from full international recognition, as one of the greatest injustices in Scottish football since the second world war. Billy McNeill was a great centre half but he did not have half the skill or entertainment value of Jim Clunie. And as for the Rangers equivalent at that time ...... Just goes to prove that Scottish football was even more institutionally bigoted and prejudiced then than today.

And another sad footnote - Jim Clunie (like Alec Ferguson) was another excellent and successful manager who was shown the door at Love Street. Let's hope the same does not happen to Jack Ross.

[Tommy]

A bonus for avoiding relegation. 
Dear oh dear. 

Say the guy that expect a bonus (tip) for doing his job [emoji595]