Back To Reality

[Lord Pityme]

6 minutes ago, Drew said:

I don't think anyone is simply celebrating the fact that we avoided relegation. I think we are celebrating what is a pretty remarkable achievement to turn things round when we were teetering on the brink of the abyss.

Why not celebrate that achievement? It is, as much as anything else, the manmer in which it was achieved. Playing great football, restoring the feelgood factor at the club, and giving us genuine cause to be optimistic about the future. I, for one, won't apologise for celebrating those features of what has been a roller-coaster season.

In any event, let's not get too hung up on what should or shouldn't be a cause for celebration (or, indeed, what constitutes celebration). People celebrate birthdays - wow, you've lived another year! Folk celebrate finishing a marathon - even if they completed it in a time that the winner could have hopped it in. Wedding anniversaries? Should you celebrate managing not to break up with your other half? Rhetorical question!

Who cares what folk want to celebrate and how they choose to do it? Let's just enjoy the good times. As oaksoft pointed out earlier, there is no need whatsoever to piss on anyone chips over this.

 

I dont think it is pissing on anyone chips or parade at all, it is our reality we avoided potential relegation on goal difference, on the last game of the season, when at the outset we firmly believed we were challengers in this league. For two thirds of the seaon we were the worst team in the league.

now Ross has the same opportunity his predecessor had to show how he can kick us on, and actually achieve something. I want ti see 2000+ buddies rocking up at away games because we are title contenders next season.

[Drew]

3 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

now Ross has the same opportunity his predecessor had to show how he can kick us on, and actually achieve something.

To suggest that Jack Ross hasn't achieved anything is f**king laughable.

I expect no different from you, however.

Ta ta.

[Sonny]

It has been said that not many were complaining about the squad before the season started but most of us give people a chance before we condemn them (some just condemn immediately). I and the guys I go to games with (about 7 of us) all had reservations about the squad - too many old players; too many injury prone players; too many young loan players; only one guy in their mid-20's signed; no left sided players; resigning players like Calum Gallagher and Clarkson who had already shown they were pretty poor; Rae's comments about not being interested in the U20 squad. Signing Gordon then loaning him out was unfathomable. The vibes were not great. But it was the start of the season and we went in hope to games and to support the team but it quickly became obvious that we were watching a shambles. 

To do anything you need a good squad. To just complete you need a decent 11. After only 4 games in, down at Ayr, it was clear we did not even have 11 to compete. That day we fielded Gallagher in goals and had Stewart, Hutton, Clarkson, Walsh, Hardie, Shankland all playing at some point and Irvine playing out of position. McLear was on the bench and Morgan, Magennis and McAllister were nowhere to be seen. As early as this the squad looked shit and it took a last minute goal to equalise against a part-time team. There were some good players there but not nearly enough for a team never mind a squad.that was going to achieve anything.

And it took until January before we had a decent 11 then a decent squad for the first time in the season.

[Lord Pityme]

1 minute ago, Drew said:

To suggest that Jack Ross hasn't achieved anything is f**king laughable.

I expect no different from you, however.

Ta ta.

So as a manager what has he won, whats his achievements? He said it himself he wont be celebrating just avoiding relegation. 

At least he has a grip on reality.

[Drew]

5 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

So as a manager what has he won, whats his achievements? He said it himself he wont be celebrating just avoiding relegation. 

At least he has a grip on reality.

Are you suggesting that you have only achieved when you have won something? Seriously?

 

[kevo_smfc]

10 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

So as a manager what has he won, whats his achievements? He said it himself he wont be celebrating just avoiding relegation. 

At least he has a grip on reality.

He won the battle of survival against the odds and we did it in some style.

[Lord Pityme]

6 minutes ago, Drew said:

Are you suggesting that you have only achieved when you have won something? Seriously?

 

So what has he achieved? He certainly isn't claiming he has as a manager.

i think he is being very realistic and assessing his own performance across all the games he was in charge this season, and knows he came up short for a long run of games. He recognised that, made changes, learned from his mistakes and improved results and performances. Take his lead on realism and lets see the squad and performances we put in next season.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Lord Pityme

[Soctty]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

I thought the thread title was about reality?

putting together a great run from late January onwards is to be commended, as is bringing in a few gems that helped the team take shape. But lets be clear Mallan, Morgan, Magennis, McKenzie, Sutton, Baird, Irvine etc were already at the club before January, as was Quinn and those guys have (not so much Quinn) played superbly throughout, whilst sometimes being lumbered with poor tactics and formation under both managers this season.

with the guys above, and those departed I do not recall anything but positive optimism before the season got underway. Rae and Farrel for whatever reason couldnt get the squad to kick on after securing safety last season, and those first league games made us look like a WW1 artillery battery shelling everything forward.

we lost gems in Naismith and McAllister, Ross won two out of fourteen up till January, and we needed that huge turnaround just to give us a chance of staying up on goal difference in the last game of the season. Had a really great day on Saturday, but have to admit that was relief rather than victory celebration as we damn near ended up in football wasteland.

so looking forward to what/who Ross can sign up in the next week or two. He has got a crucial couple of weeks start on the play off teams to get some contracts signed, persuade loan clubs to make permanent deals, and ship out his failures Todd, Storey, Fjelde etc. For me now! He has earned a clean slate, so we can judge him on the whole season ahead, and not selective parts therof.

so go on Jack, impress me/us and make us title challengers, not relegation battlers for the new season. 

 

 

[Drew]

6 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

So what has he achieved? He certainly isn't claiming he has as a manager.

i think he is being very realistic and assessing his own performance across all the games he was in charge this season, and knows he came up short for a long run of games. He recognised that, made changes, learned from his mistakes and improved results and performances. Take his lead on realism and lets see the squad and performances we put in next season.

This is entirely pointless.

If you believe he has achieved nothing, well, I suspect we will also achieve nothing by discussing this further.

[Soctty]

2 minutes ago, Drew said:

This is entirely pointless.

If you believe he has achieved nothing, well, I suspect we will also achieve nothing by discussing this further.

You'll find that, although they made arses of themselves, this clown and TC were actually right - that's their narrative. They will pounce on anything negative from here on in to attack the manager, normally in a spineless and snide way, but attack him they will.

 

They, and those of a similar disposition, are utterly pathetic. Best thing to do is laugh at them, and look out for their little digs. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Soctty

[Lord Pityme]

2 minutes ago, Drew said:

This is entirely pointless.

If you believe he has achieved nothing, well, I suspect we will also achieve nothing by discussing this further.

You got nothing then? C'mon make an effort.

[Lord Pityme]

Just now, Soctty said:

You'll find that, although they made arses of themselves, this clown and TC were actually right. They will pounce on anything negative from here on in to attack the manager, normally in a spineless and snide way, but attack him they will.

 

They, and those of a similar disposition, are utterly pathetic. Best thing to do is laugh at them, and look out for their little digs. 

By recognising how he has turned things round, and also reviewing all the games he has been in charge for, I am (in your world) attacking the manager..? Aye on yersel..

 

[Froggie]

I was at Easter Rd and felt very proud of Saints, who have turned into a real football team now. I went to very few games before January and admit that like very many I had us relegated. It didn't take a genius to work that out as we were hopeless and had no fight. An almost complete change in personnel brought about by an astute manager saw a transformation both on and off the field. I don't remember such enthusiasm about a team for a very long time, and even if we had been forced into the play-offs I believe we would have strolled it. I thought that might have been our fate but delighted to have avoided that scenario.

[Drew]

15 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

You got nothing then? C'mon make an effort.

Nah, you're alright, ta. I'll choose how and when to employ my precious personal resources. I won't wasting any more of them on futile chat with you.

[Edinbuddie]

I suppose that the term 'support' can mean different things. Financial support, emotional support etc. I tend to view it that, as with people, football teams/players/management need more support when things aren't going well. The idea that you would need to convince or impress someone before they would offer you their unconditional support doesn't seem very supportive to me.    

[Lord Pityme]

6 minutes ago, Drew said:

Nah, you're alright, ta. I'll choose how and when to employ my precious personal resources. I won't wasting any more of them on futile chat with you.

Buy you are chatting! Is it good to talk?

[Lord Pityme]

Just now, Edinbuddie said:

I suppose that the term 'support' can mean different things. Financial support, emotional support etc. I tend to view it that, as with people, football teams/players/management need more support when things aren't going well. The idea that you would need to convince or impress someone before they would offer you their unconditional support doesn't seem very supportive to me.    

The idea of a saints fan dictating to other saints fans how worthy, or not they are isnt in my book very supportive. But hey each to their own.

how many offered Rae their unconditional support? Or indeed Lennon etc...?

[Soctty]

19 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

By recognising how he has turned things round, and also reviewing all the games he has been in charge for, I am (in your world) attacking the manager..? Aye on yersel..

 

I said you *will* attack the manager. And you will, because you're still of the belief that you were right in your earlier notion that he was a dud because he didn't wave a magic wand to turn a team bereft of confidence and quality into a team of world beaters straight away, and took some time to get them playing his way, after rooting out the deadwood and replacing with players who could hack it.

Thankfully there is great positivity in the bulk of the support, which is fantastic to be part of - you should try it.

[Lord Pityme]

1 minute ago, Soctty said:

I said you *will* attack the manager. And you will, because you're still of the belief that you were right in your earlier notion that he was a dud because he didn't wave a magic wand to turn a team bereft of confidence and quality into a team of world beaters straight away, and took some time to get them playing his way, after rooting out the deadwood and replacing with players who could hack it.

Thankfully there is great positivity in the bulk of the support, which is fantastic to be part of - you should try it.

Wrong on all your points. I never said he was a dud befire he signed., I said imo he wasnt the type of manager we needed (lack of experience), because in sacking Rae it seemed we would be going for someone "better" who could get us results straight away.

he has signed his own deadwood in Fjelde, Storey, Todd etc, proving how unpredictable turning over so many players cab be.

Ross was a big gamble as proved by only getting two wins in fourteen games. Yes he changed the squad and got results and performances but again imo we didnt need to go that close to oblivion. So now he has a new full season to show what his squad can achieve. Am i wrong, unrealistic etc to want that to be challenging for the title?

Ross has said himself thats his target, I want to see and enjoy that type of battle.

[Soctty]

Just now, Lord Pityme said:

Wrong on all your points. I never said he was a dud befire he signed., I said imo he wasnt the type of manager we needed (lack of experience), because in sacking Rae it seemed we would be going for someone "better" who could get us results straight away.

he has signed his own deadwood in Fjelde, Storey, Todd etc, proving how unpredictable turning over so many players cab be.

Ross was a big gamble as proved by only getting two wins in fourteen games. Yes he changed the squad and got results and performances but again imo we didnt need to go that close to oblivion. So now he has a new full season to show what his squad can achieve. Am i wrong, unrealistic etc to want that to be challenging for the title?

Ross has said himself thats his target, I want to see and enjoy that type of battle.

You thought he was a mistake, and he is proving to be anything but. His duds? He signed 10 players, not all were going to be first team regulars with the likes of Morgan, Mallan, McKenzie and MAgennis around. To turn over so many players and have the team playing so well is a fantastic achievement by the manager, no? All managers sign players who don't work out. For over half of your signings to be a success is a very good return.

We'll be challenging for the title next season, and the fans will be there in their numbers to see and enjoy it.

[norman]

It seems weird to me that people can't just enjoy the culmination of the last few months and recognise what a great job the manager has done in that time. He put together a good team, who were great to watch and scored loads of goals. He got the crowds back and he pulled us out of a truly desperate situation.

Loads of people had their doubts in January. We looked dead and buried, and many people voiced that at the time, but it turned round and you are allowed to enjoy it. You don't have to keep justifying the fact that you were wrong on the internet four months ago.

[faraway saint]

14 minutes ago, norman said:

It seems weird to me that people can't just enjoy the culmination of the last few months and recognise what a great job the manager has done in that time. He put together a good team, who were great to watch and scored loads of goals. He got the crowds back and he pulled us out of a truly desperate situation.

Loads of people had their doubts in January. We looked dead and buried, and many people voiced that at the time, but it turned round and you are allowed to enjoy it. You don't have to keep justifying the fact that you were wrong on the internet four months ago.

Aye, like you wanting me in the sin bin ya trumpet.

[DLBud]

Yeah, but it was missing a GIRFUY Top Cat, Lookatme, McDowell etc......

[kevo_smfc]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Wrong on all your points. I never said he was a dud befire he signed., I said imo he wasnt the type of manager we needed (lack of experience), because in sacking Rae it seemed we would be going for someone "better" who could get us results straight away.

he has signed his own deadwood in Fjelde, Storey, Todd etc, proving how unpredictable turning over so many players cab be.

Ross was a big gamble as proved by only getting two wins in fourteen games. Yes he changed the squad and got results and performances but again imo we didnt need to go that close to oblivion. So now he has a new full season to show what his squad can achieve. Am i wrong, unrealistic etc to want that to be challenging for the title?

Ross has said himself thats his target, I want to see and enjoy that type of battle.

How can you class these guys as deadwood just because they are not in the starting lineup every week? You can only fill 11 places in the starting '11' and those in front of them in the pecking order were difficult to budge. 

[Callum Gilhooley]

Just now, kevo_smfc said:

How can you class these guys as deadwood just because they are not in the starting lineup every week? You can only fill 11 places in the starting '11' and those in front of them in the pecking order were difficult to budge. 

Agree. Storie did a good job before McGinns arrival. Todd has done well when called upon ( but iirc isn't he only singed till end of season anyway ) Good squad player who might well be worth hanging on to. & Fjelde has also looked decent but given the form of players he is back up too ,always going to be difficult to judge with limited game time 

Duds ? Don't think so.