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Standing Area At St Mirren Park

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42 minutes ago, Sonny said:

What is the cost?

“Depending on the number of seats, currency exchange rates and a few other variables, the ball park figure is around £80 per seat. By comparison, a top-of-the-range conventional grandstand seat might cost around £60, while cheap and cheerful budget seats come in at around £30. So rail seats aren’t cheap. But what price do you put on safety?

“And what price on investing in your most vocal and passionate fans, so that they feel truly appreciated and act as the catalyst to get the atmosphere rocking all around the ground? Unlike the cheap and cheerful seats, they don’t break either. Installation is also no more difficult or costly than fitting conventional seats. In essence, it is simply a matter of bolting the uprights to the concrete steps of the viewing deck.”

This ^^^^

Football needs atmosphere IMO

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19 minutes ago, Vambo57 said:

What is the cost?

“Depending on the number of seats, currency exchange rates and a few other variables, the ball park figure is around £80 per seat. By comparison, a top-of-the-range conventional grandstand seat might cost around £60, while cheap and cheerful budget seats come in at around £30. So rail seats aren’t cheap. But what price do you put on safety?

“And what price on investing in your most vocal and passionate fans, so that they feel truly appreciated and act as the catalyst to get the atmosphere rocking all around the ground? Unlike the cheap and cheerful seats, they don’t break either. Installation is also no more difficult or costly than fitting conventional seats. In essence, it is simply a matter of bolting the uprights to the concrete steps of the viewing deck.”

This ^^^^

Football needs atmosphere IMO

Do your figures take into account the cost of removing the existing seats and fittings ?  Also the actual cost of Installation of the new units ? 

Even if it does , removing approx 300 existing seats and installing the new stuff would still run into £25-30K   A lot of dosh .

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Since when has standing at football been deemed to be unsafe ? I don't mean crumbling terraces with massive crowds, those days are gone on both points. All seater  stadia were introduced - wrongly in my opinion and just because another country decided on it (England) - after certain incidents due to overcrowding and have mainly resulted in ticket price increases. Its not in the interests of clubs to remove seats as they would be forced to reduce prices. The fact that fans are forced to sit in freezing winter conditions for a couple of hours is neither here nor there as long as they pay. Most fans want terracing, alcohol at matches and reasonable ticket (sorry, not ticket, just pay at the gate) prices but it wont happen. That's why crowds are vanishing everywhere.

As a previous poster said, however, standing has been allowed in the away section at certain games for quite a few years now, so far without any fatalities or even casualties as far as I am aware. Bearing in mind there are actually seats still in place, it shows that standing is completely safe despite that. One might even add that its safe even despite the type of creatures present on those occasions, lol.

 

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On 5/18/2017 at 0:08 AM, faraway saint said:

You have to laugh at your audacity and self importance.

You portray yourself as a high and mighty "supporter" and SMISA member but when things don't go your own way, or your brothers, you threaten to go in the huff.

Your opinion what is a good use or not is no more important than any other SMISA member and yet the majority, thank feck, don't go bleating about it when they see things they don't agree with.

Aye, for what it's worth I PM'd you when the SMISA proposal was close to completion with my opinion why I was concerned but, overall, was prepared to commit.

Unfortunately you had me on ignore so I, rather personally, decided to sway into the side that I wouldn't bother.

Well, I hope you are pleased as I'm sure you, and your brother, have put a few people off the idea, although that seems to be your next agenda.

Nothing has surprised me about this as it was pretty obvious from the outset that the idea of some people having some say in the control of out club who were less than capable was a certain worry.

You can still join SMISA, unless you were thinking of the lifetime membership

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On 18/05/2017 at 1:16 PM, Callum Gilhooley said:

Do your figures take into account the cost of removing the existing seats and fittings ?  Also the actual cost of Installation of the new units ? 

Even if it does , removing approx 300 existing seats and installing the new stuff would still run into £25-30K   A lot of dosh .

Not my figures mate, was taken from the article quoted previously.

The existing seats are only bolted onto the front of the step above, as any new standing seats would be also.

Perhaps Fans could be surveyed to see if they would be willing to pay for the installation of their standing seat in Season 1? Of course once paid for, the cost of the next and following ST could be cheaper than a normal seat.  The Club could gauge demand for such a proposal.

15 hours ago, Froggie said:

Since when has standing at football been deemed to be unsafe ? I don't mean crumbling terraces with massive crowds, those days are gone on both points. All seater  stadia were introduced - wrongly in my opinion and just because another country decided on it (England) - after certain incidents due to overcrowding and have mainly resulted in ticket price increases. Its not in the interests of clubs to remove seats as they would be forced to reduce prices. The fact that fans are forced to sit in freezing winter conditions for a couple of hours is neither here nor there as long as they pay. Most fans want terracing, alcohol at matches and reasonable ticket (sorry, not ticket, just pay at the gate) prices but it wont happen. That's why crowds are vanishing everywhere.

As a previous poster said, however, standing has been allowed in the away section at certain games for quite a few years now, so far without any fatalities or even casualties as far as I am aware. Bearing in mind there are actually seats still in place, it shows that standing is completely safe despite that. One might even add that its safe even despite the type of creatures present on those occasions, lol.

 

This ^^^

I am not getting any younger and I am sick to death of freezing my gonads off and have even missed a few games (especially 2 seasons ago) because it was affecting my health and was just not worth it.  Standing up and being able to move, dance, sing and generally heating yourself up is far more preferable IMO, plus it WILL add to the atmosphere.

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18 hours ago, beyond our ken said:

You can still join SMISA, unless you were thinking of the lifetime membership

Fully expect him to join now that i am no longer involved with the SMiSA board.

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On 18/05/2017 at 11:51 AM, Lord Pityme said:

Well said!

Whoops...  just re-read it and going by your definitions of 'Audacity, Self Importance and High & Mighty' it seems to read as you describing yourself..! 

why anyone should read, value, comment on, or ignore any others view is up to them. Do you suggest we should go back through all your comments to see where your view comes over as any of the things you pinned above? Theres a fecking lot!

The biggest laugh though is that you never bothered to join Smisa, but now feel qualified to tell those who have been paying in, committing time and effort towards its success how they should, or shouldn't air their views! Forgive me whilst i have a good chortle at your 'bystander viewpoint'. You would probably be best leaving these things to people who have committed, and may have a better informed view of things, rather than leave yourself open to ridicule. But hey thats just my opinion as a Smisa member which I and I am sure Buddiecat intend to be infinitum.

do you jump on other saints fans who say, or have said after a bad season or string of results "thats it, am no renewing my ST" when we, and they, all know they will renew when the dust settles. Ach, sorry not going to games and that, you might not get it, like most others do.

Quite funny that me having him on ignore was the reason he would not commit to SMiSA.

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19 hours ago, beyond our ken said:

You can still join SMISA, unless you were thinking of the lifetime membership

Recent issues being discussed over in the "save smisa" thread haven't convinced me to change my mind.

Thanks anyway.

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If this was a goer ie people really want it can the costs not just be added to the cost of the tickets to the area. Ie an extra £30 for a season ticket in the standing area for a couple of years or an extra £2 on match day tickets? Surely the cost of it should be met by the fans/people that really want it?

I would rather we don't spend SMISA funds on it and would vote against it however if that is what the membership want to spend the money on I wouldn't start up my own independent independent supporters club.

In my opinion it is a worry that someone so involved in the whole SMiSA buy out would think such a thing let alone post about it on a forum.

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7 hours ago, Vambo57 said:

Not my figures mate, was taken from the article quoted previously.

The existing seats are only bolted onto the front of the step above, as any new standing seats would be also.

Perhaps Fans could be surveyed to see if they would be willing to pay for the installation of their standing seat in Season 1? Of course once paid for, the cost of the next and following ST could be cheaper than a normal seat.  The Club could gauge demand for such a proposal.

This ^^^

I am not getting any younger and I am sick to death of freezing my gonads off and have even missed a few games (especially 2 seasons ago) because it was affecting my health and was just not worth it.  Standing up and being able to move, dance, sing and generally heating yourself up is far more preferable IMO, plus it WILL add to the atmosphere.

it was a genuine question and not an attempt to knock it. I dont see any reason why we cant have standing but it would of course have to be fully costed.  That said, would i want to stand now at every game ? doubt it.

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2 hours ago, Hambud said:

If this was a goer ie people really want it can the costs not just be added to the cost of the tickets to the area. Ie an extra £30 for a season ticket in the standing area for a couple of years or an extra £2 on match day tickets? Surely the cost of it should be met by the fans/people that really want it?

I would rather we don't spend SMISA funds on it and would vote against it however if that is what the membership want to spend the money on I wouldn't start up my own independent independent supporters club.

In my opinion it is a worry that someone so involved in the whole SMiSA buy out would think such a thing let alone post about it on a forum.

No longer involved in the SMiSA board and no intention of starting up any supporters club, i was referring to me being my own wee personal supporters association which would only consist of me and my shadow. Apart from that it was just a throwaway comment.

So you are another person who has no need to worry about me having involvement with SMiSA.

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1 hour ago, buddiecat said:

I was referring to me being my own wee personal supporters association which would only consist of me and my shadow

 

So who would have the casting vote?

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No longer involved in the SMiSA board and no intention of starting up any supporters club, i was referring to me being my own wee personal supporters association which would only consist of me and my shadow. Apart from that it was just a throwaway comment.
So you are another person who has no need to worry about me having involvement with SMiSA.

My worry is that you were involved in buy out and encouraging others to get involved yet you could turn your back on the whole thing over something as silly as you voting differently from other members.

All SMiSA members are paying monthly to give our club back to the people of Paisley. We are all doing it in the good faith that our fellow fans will continue supporting the concept of fan ownership through thick and thin. We have signed up off the back of having faith in what people like you have told us we believe we can do this off the great work people like you have done. But now you are suggesting that it's ok just to decide to stop your involvement just because there may be a decision that your fellow members make that you do not like.

It makes me wonder why you were so behind fan ownership if you could so flippantly turn your back on it leaving others to see through the project you appeared to be really involved in.
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12 minutes ago, Hambud said:


My worry is that you were involved in buy out and encouraging others to get involved yet you could turn your back on the whole thing over something as silly as you voting differently from other members.

All SMiSA members are paying monthly to give our club back to the people of Paisley. We are all doing it in the good faith that our fellow fans will continue supporting the concept of fan ownership through thick and thin. We have signed up off the back of having faith in what people like you have told us we believe we can do this off the great work people like you have done. But now you are suggesting that it's ok just to decide to stop your involvement just because there may be a decision that your fellow members make that you do not like.

It makes me wonder why you were so behind fan ownership if you could so flippantly turn your back on it leaving others to see through the project you appeared to be really involved in.

Thats a shit load of 'wondering'!

but hey, go on tell what project Buddiecat is 'Really' involved in..?

the only one i know he is involved in is an ongoing project which he is nearly sixty years into, its codename is  'SMTID'... but you sound like you know better.

Edited by Lord Pityme

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Thats a shit load of 'wondering'!
but hey, go on tell what project Buddiecat is 'Really' involved in..?
the only one i know he is involved in is an ongoing project which he is nearly sixty years into, its codename is  'SMTID'... but you sound like you know better.

I thought he was really involved in the fan buy out project.

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19 hours ago, Hambud said:


My worry is that you were involved in buy out and encouraging others to get involved yet you could turn your back on the whole thing over something as silly as you voting differently from other members.

All SMiSA members are paying monthly to give our club back to the people of Paisley. We are all doing it in the good faith that our fellow fans will continue supporting the concept of fan ownership through thick and thin. We have signed up off the back of having faith in what people like you have told us we believe we can do this off the great work people like you have done. But now you are suggesting that it's ok just to decide to stop your involvement just because there may be a decision that your fellow members make that you do not like.

It makes me wonder why you were so behind fan ownership if you could so flippantly turn your back on it leaving others to see through the project you appeared to be really involved in.

Making mountains out of molehills here Hambud, I am totally behind fan ownership and if you read other posts, i have said i would save any subs and pay the money in at a later date.

Truth be told i probably would not stop paying. As usual i am using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, might seem petty but it does get the message across i.e. Don't waste our money.

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19 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Thats a shit load of 'wondering'!

but hey, go on tell what project Buddiecat is 'Really' involved in..?

the only one i know he is involved in is an ongoing project which he is nearly sixty years into, its codename is  'SMTID'... but you sound like you know better.

You misinterpreted the bit in bold LPM as did i when i first read it. Sounds like being involved in an alternative project " leaving others to see through the project you appeared to be really involved in." But it really means he thought i appeared to be really involved in SMiSA and couldn't have been really committed because i threatened to withdraw subs, and i have left it to others to continue it now.

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19 hours ago, Hambud said:


I thought he was really involved in the fan buy out project.

Have no worries about that Hambud, my efforts to get other SMiSA board members to agree to involve and inform all members of what is being discussed at meetings and also to prevent using funds on nice but unneccessary things was falling on deaf ears at meetings, so i'm approaching it from outside the board now.

Would you agree that wanting better communications and being prudent with members subs are important points and worthy of campaigning for ? That is what i'm doing and if that's wrong then tell me why.

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29 minutes ago, buddiecat said:

Have no worries about that Hambud, my efforts to get other SMiSA board members to agree to involve and inform all members of what is being discussed at meetings and also to prevent using funds on nice but unneccessary things was falling on deaf ears at meetings, so i'm approaching it from outside the board now.

Would you agree that wanting better communications and being prudent with members subs are important points and worthy of campaigning for ? That is what i'm doing and if that's wrong then tell me why.

Ditto for my reasons on stopping towork with the board, and to cease wasting time trying to convince a small majority on the board that involving and consulting the membership is the only way to guarantee the success and longevity of BTB.

it should be noted that four board members recently stepped down, all have their reasons, but all that the same time?

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22 minutes ago, buddiecat said:

Have no worries about that Hambud, my efforts to get other SMiSA board members to agree to involve and inform all members of what is being discussed at meetings and also to prevent using funds on nice but unneccessary things was falling on deaf ears at meetings, so i'm approaching it from outside the board now.

Would you agree that wanting better communications and being prudent with members subs are important points and worthy of campaigning for ? That is what i'm doing and if that's wrong then tell me why.

Communication is key and very important buddiecat and we need more of it. 100% agree.

The 'being prudent with members funds' though is maybe more controversial. From the outset it was accepted by everyone who signed up that £2 a month would be used for what the Members voted for and members can send in suggestions. (£10 a month being used to buy the Club). For me that £2 meant improving the stadium; the matchday experience; community involvement; promoting the brand. In short doing some of the things they have been doing. To some extent making some forward steps after years of neglect.

You do not want murals on the walls whereas I would love murals on the walls - the 'nice' things that would never be accomplished without the £2 a month. Sometimes the money will be spent for things I did not vote for but that is what democracy is and over the piece I think the projects have all been beneficial and would never have seen the light of day without the £2.

However if you are referring to the £10 a month then I would be interested to hear in what way the money is being used imprudently.

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I'm certainly not going to claim the idea, because I've heard it mentioned by others in this context before, but in my opinion and although it would cost substantially more, rather than ripping out seats to keep one group happy whilst simultaneously annoying another group, a better plan / long term investment would be to spend the money filling in one of the corners between the Family stand and either the Main or West stand, and making it a purpose built standing section.

Again, yes I know it would be expensive, and I haven't even considered how such funding could be raised, it's just the principle that I think would be good.

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9 minutes ago, Sonny said:

Communication is key and very important buddiecat and we need more of it. 100% agree.

The 'being prudent with members funds' though is maybe more controversial. From the outset it was accepted by everyone who signed up that £2 a month would be used for what the Members voted for and members can send in suggestions. (£10 a month being used to buy the Club). For me that £2 meant improving the stadium; the matchday experience; community involvement; promoting the brand. In short doing some of the things they have been doing. To some extent making some forward steps after years of neglect.

You do not want murals on the walls whereas I would love murals on the walls - the 'nice' things that would never be accomplished without the £2 a month. Sometimes the money will be spent for things I did not vote for but that is what democracy is and over the piece I think the projects have all been beneficial and would never have seen the light of day without the £2.

However if you are referring to the £10 a month then I would be interested to hear in what way the money is being used imprudently.

Not referring to the £10 a month, one thing agreed at the AGM was, that money is ring fenced and cannot be used other than to buy the shares. Okay on the £2 spend it is up to the majority what it gets spent on, nothing wrong with me publishing my thoughts on what is prudent or not, i'm aware that murals appeal to some, but also aware they need money spent on them annually to stop them fading, and to repair any damage (accidental or otherwise). Safe standing areas cost a fortune to build and continuous costs of extra stewarding  are too high for the project to be seen as a good use of our money. Only my opinion.

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