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Drew

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It's almost fifty years since some dude in Birmingham made an extremely controversial speech, largely about commonwealth immigration. It knackered his chance of ever becoming prime minister. Looking back, his prophecy has turned out to be eerily accurate. He was a classical scholar, hence the tone of his speech, Contrary to popular belief, he did not use the phrase 'rivers of blood'.

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Guest TPAFKATS
It's almost fifty years since some dude in Birmingham made an extremely controversial speech, largely about commonwealth immigration. It knackered his chance of ever becoming prime minister. Looking back, his prophecy has turned out to be eerily accurate. He was a classical scholar, hence the tone of his speech, Contrary to popular belief, he did not use the phrase 'rivers of blood'.

Was that around the same time that his party, the Tories, were running an election poster saying 'if you want a coloured for a neighbour, vote Labour '
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I think pod & IOBS are right to bring up the issue of Saudi Arabia - it's our main ally in the region, but it's completely undemocratic, an absolute monarchy working hand-in-hand with medieval style clerics resulting in a shameful record on human rights and as long as we accept this and kow-tow to their oil wealth their hatred will continue to bleed into our society.

We tolerate these "strong man" governments until they commit some gross offence to us and then we undermine them but do nothing to ensure that they are replaced by democracies and the result - chaos and the arrival of the next "strong man" who is invariably worse than the last one. There's a pool of unsettled young Muslims in West European countries and unless we can reach out to them then this war will last indefinitely. That means supporting democracies and democratic movements in the region (which will in itself be costly in terms of life and money, there is no easy answer)  from Libya to Iran and maybe beyond but also trying to bring young Muslims fully into our society.

We can't wait the centuries it might take for the hardliners to leave their medieval views behind.

Edited by Bud the Baker
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2 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

You might think you are educational snob but the bottom line is you have zero common sense. Also notice when you can't win an adult debate the toys go out the pram and you attack off the subject

 

2 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

You really are an idiot of the highest order . 

:lol:

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2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

23,000? What, exactly, have  these people DONE to warrent "shipping them out" and to where? Does this include their close families, friends and anyone who is associated with them. Special camps? Where, and what will go on in these "camps" and how will you keep them there? Are these like Butlins or them camps the Germans built? FFS.

Yep.

The security services have stated that often it is relatives of those more vocal people who are more likely to do real damage.

Many of the rest just post extreme views. Do we REALLY want to be deporting people for posts they make on the internet?

If so, IOBS would be deported alongside them.

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26 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

I think pod & IOBS are right to bring up the issue of Saudi Arabia - it's our main ally in the region, but it's completely undemocratic, an absolute monarchy working hand-in-hand with medieval style clerics resulting in a shameful record on human rights and as long as we accept this and kow-tow to their oil wealth their hatred will continue to bleed into our society.

We tolerate these "strong man" governments until they commit some gross offence to us and then we undermine them but do nothing to ensure that they are replaced by democracies and the result - chaos and the arrival of the next "strong man" who is invariably worse than the last one. There's a pool of unsettled young Muslims in West European countries and unless we can reach out to them then this war will last indefinitely. That means supporting democracies and democratic movements in the region (which will in itself be costly in terms of life and money, there is no easy answer)  from Libya to Iran and maybe beyond but also trying to bring young Muslims fully into our society.

We can't wait the centuries it might take for the hardliners to leave their medieval views behind.

If these guys are being recruited directly through mosques then we can continue to work with mosque leaders to try and root out this extremist teaching and recruiting.

Even though I said muslims weren't to blame for this, it shouldn't surprise anyone that very nature of religion provides a fertile breeding ground for this type of thing.

ALL religious texts to my knowledge promote division and violence and that leaves a vacuum for others to fill with their own interpretation which supports whatever ends they have in mind. You cannot have texts which talk about how only your religious followers are going to be saved and that everyone else is somehow inferior and condemned to a pit of flames and then express astonishment that people would interpret that literally.

All religions could do us a favour by getting together and agreeing to update their texts to remove these things.

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I have first hand experience working in Muslim schools & Mosques.

 

As I don't understand their language, I can't tell you what they say, but what I can tell you is what I've seen.

 

There is one particular girls only Muslim school in Bradford that I've been in and I was astonished at the wall displays throughout the corridor areas in which the 'project' work ( IMO ) seemed to portray hatred towards the west and the UK. The content 'seemed' to have a theme in which almost all contributors seemed to be giving their views/opinions on how they or their families view the Uk/West and it was almost all negative. The age group is 4-14 y/o in this School.

 

Living in Leeds much of my work is in Bradford and I've regularly been in mosques and Sikh temples over the last 25 years ( through work ) and I've got a few hundred Muslim friends/customers who are lovely welcoming people who treat me like family and in the main are appalled by the actions of Muslim extremists and this a conversation we have on a regular basis openly.

 

My personal experience is that the vast majority love the Uk whether born here or have come here later in life.

 

We have discussed terrorism, asian sex trafficking & immigration countless times and whilst nobody in their right mind would openly condone these things, I've found almost all were embarrassed by the actions of other Muslims who carry out these atrocities.

 

I've met 1 guy however that I only see 4 times a year who is so 'passionate' & 'knowledgeable' about all things religious and anti-western/propaganda that I could honestly see him on sky news at some point for negative reasons as his views are borderline extremist.

 

My personal view is that at least 99.9% of all asian people i know are kind, honest hard working individuals who have normal outlooks on life, work , family & peace.

 

Of all the people I know, all compliment Scotland and Scottish people for their views and hospitality either through visiting of family members who live in Scotland.

 

There is bad in all walks of life, but I'm made to feel safe and hugely welcome by the Bradford asian community who share our condemnation of these atrocities.

 

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I have been accused of being bigoted against bigots. Not quite how I would have put it....but I plead guilty. Respect,  tolerance and understanding seem to me to be fundrnental aspects of being civilised. Without these a space exists where racism, sectarianism and religious bigotry exist.

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Guest TPAFKATS
Let's face it, there are total cunts of all religions and none. Maybe we should just refer to them all as such - and let the TV and Press do the same. Let the press say that "3 total cunts killed and wounded people and were then shot dead by police in London". Don't report what they believed in, don't report their religion, don't report their nationality, don't show their faces, don't do anything at all that will spread their message. I felt the same way when it was the IRA/UVF etc. killing innocents and still feel that way about the whole f**king lot of the total cunts, irrespective of religion/belief/motive or where in the world it happens.
 
 

It's difficult not to report the religious aspect when eye witness accounts state that they carry out the atrocities in the name of their God.
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1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said:

 


Maybe so but it shouldn't stop us trying. The BBC, for example, could show the eyewitness account and then the reporter could sum it up by saying "It was a bunch of total cunts that did it and they're now dead.".

I just hope that these particular total cunts, just before they died, thought "What if there is no afterlife? Oh, shit! MUMMY!".

 

Actually I really like that. " A bunch of cunts...." etc. I can imagine the 5pm news.

Removing the religious bit actually might prevent copycat stuff and remove some of the air of publicity.

In some ways we are fanning the flames of fear by reporting everything and that is just doing the terorists job for them by default.

Nice idea slarti.

Now see if you cant turn that magnificent brain of yours to the problem of solving crime, poverty and antibiotic resistant venereal disease.

Let me know how you get on. I will stay online in feverish anticipation.

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1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said:

 


Piss easy!

No laws - no crime.
No money - no poverty.
Burn everyone who has it - no antibiotic resistant VD, eventually.

Got any difficult ones?

 

Out of control house prices.

Online trolls who post nothing but abuse.

Politicians.

The middle east crisis.

White dog shite.

and finally the obsession with putting bloody carrot in prawn cocktails.

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20 hours ago, faraway saint said:

You know what is amusing, the country/ government can't solve this yet some half wits on a football forum think they have the answers. Give me strength. :(

Wrong some people think the current system is not working . Some people are putting Muslims under one banner. That's wrong. Radical Muslims is a huge problem through out the world we in the UK have had 3 attacks in 3 month. Something different has to be done as the current system is not working. 

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57 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Wrong some people think the current system is not working . Some people are putting Muslims under one banner. That's wrong. Radical Muslims is a huge problem through out the world we in the UK have had 3 attacks in 3 month. Something different has to be done as the current system is not working. 

We have extreme in all faiths, IRA, UDA killed on behalf of their god to...........

This ISIS is just a load of bull, and agree with much above, take religion out of it, they are worse than dead pond life.............

This will never be resolved it not political, you cant kill hate, it breeds.....

Worse stain on humanity was religion everyone with the excuse to be different and confrontational ....

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1 hour ago, DougJamie said:

We have extreme in all faiths, IRA, UDA killed on behalf of their god to...........

This ISIS is just a load of bull, and agree with much above, take religion out of it, they are worse than dead pond life.............

This will never be resolved it not political, you cant kill hate, it breeds.....

Worse stain on humanity was religion everyone with the excuse to be different and confrontational ....

Just my view , you can't take the religion out of it because that is where it is breeding  especially by Saudi preachers who poison the minds of the young. Of course the majority are peace loving but their is known mosques that are used to bread trouble. 

Edited by Isle Of Bute Saint
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3 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Just my view , you can't take the religion out of it because that is where it is breading especially by Saudi preachers who poison the minds of the young. Of course the majority are peace loving but their is known mosques that are used to bread trouble. 

I'm getting hungry.

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15 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

 

 


I've often asked people "Is it bigoted to dislike bigots just because they are bigots?" Everyone I've asked has said no but technically the answer should be yes since you are disliking someone just because of what they believe.

 

Are you not disliking them because of the picture they themselves paint of their own character?  Dearly held beliefs are part of the person

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6 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

 


No money - no prices, out of control or otherwise.
Ban them.
Jail(or Gaol) them. (Mildly amusing fact: By the Middle Ages, English possessed two forms of the word: gayol, or the striking variant gayhole; and jaiole or jaile.. Maybe that's why you don't drop the soap in jail.)
Wait for the magnetic poles to flip - east becomes west, therefore no middle east crisis.
What about it?
Vegetarianism - no prawn cocktails.

 

Blimey there is raw talent in you.

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Guest TPAFKATS
Its getting all 1984 / A Clockwork Orange, with the Thought Police and re-neducation etc.

No need for any more re-neducation in the West of Scotland [emoji6] but I get the general point you are making.

 

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2 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Just my view , you can't take the religion out of it because that is where it is breeding  especially by Saudi preachers who poison the minds of the young. Of course the majority are peace loving but their is known mosques that are used to bread trouble. 

Of course we cant, just saying, hate, war and all the rest is down to humans desire to believe in fairy stories, I would have a drink but don't want to upset anyone again :whistle

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