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Lewis Morgan


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2 minutes ago, div said:

If we got an offer of £400K in January with a loan back to the end of the season then that would be fairly astonishing given Forest could leave him where he is and get him to sign a PCA allowing him to join in the Summer for the development fee alone.

Haven't seen exact figures on the development fee that would be due but can't imagine it will be much more than £150K.

I naively hope Lewis does us a favour and signs a 1 year extension to his contract on the understanding that if we get a certain amount  bid for him in the summer that he can go.

In the real world however that ain't gonna happen.

 

In the real world it happened for Celtic and Tierney. 

Relatively of course. 

Not looking for 6 years. 

An extra one would be ideal and would make no difference to Morgan and his Agent. 

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Morgan could actually sign a 6 year contract. 

Clubs would still bid for him in January or next Summer and he would get his move and both him and us would earn big money. 

Ridiculous that he refuses to sign an extension.  

Hope he changes his Agent's mind. 

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Morgan could actually sign a 6 year contract. 
Clubs would still bid for him in January or next Summer and he would get his move and both him and us would earn big money. 
Ridiculous that he refuses to sign an extension.  
Hope he changes his Agent's mind. 


Think it's more if he doesn't sign the deal then clubs wanting him don't have to stump up as much and the money that would go to St Mirren in part could go to improved terms and sign-on bonus.
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9 minutes ago, div said:

If we got an offer of £400K in January with a loan back to the end of the season then that would be fairly astonishing given Forest could leave him where he is and get him to sign a PCA allowing him to join in the Summer for the development fee alone.

Haven't seen exact figures on the development fee that would be due but can't imagine it will be much more than £150K.

I naively hope Lewis does us a favour and signs a 1 year extension to his contract on the understanding that if we get a certain amount  bid for him in the summer that he can go.

In the real world however that ain't gonna happen.

 

Maybe the fact that there are numerous clubs after him would possibly prompt clubs to make a cash offer now to trump the interest of the other interested parties once they are able to begin negotiations on a pre-contract agreement? I remember West Ham paying £1 million compensation for Stephen Hendrie from Hamilton in January 2015 despite his contract being up that summer.

Also, are there no tribunals in Scotland as there are in England such as with Danny Ings from Burnley to Liverpool? I'm assuming there is a different system down there but just wondered. And would Forest be subject to a different system of calculating the compensation to that of a Scottish club, being from a different association? 

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If we got an offer of £400K in January with a loan back to the end of the season then that would be fairly astonishing given Forest could leave him where he is and get him to sign a PCA allowing him to join in the Summer for the development fee alone.
Haven't seen exact figures on the development fee that would be due but can't imagine it will be much more than £150K.
I naively hope Lewis does us a favour and signs a 1 year extension to his contract on the understanding that if we get a certain amount  bid for him in the summer that he can go.
In the real world however that ain't gonna happen.
 


I've tried to make this point on twitter and Facebook about 10 times and so many people don't seem to get it [emoji23]

Maybe it's just my communication skills... not a word Shull [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
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15 hours ago, shull said:

Tierney has signed a SIX YEAR DEAL with Celtic. 

Which means he will go for a fortune if sold in the next few Seasons. 

Now, there is absolutely no good reason why Morgan couldn't sign a one or two year extension for us. 

He is so good, he will still get his major move. 

I will be fuming if he fecks off this Season for very little money coming our way. 

 

Morgan was offered a contract, he has declined  it as he is ready for the next chapter in his career and Jack, James and the board know this. We knocked back a bid in the summer as the club seen more value in keeping him till the end of the season leaving for buttons and contributing towards our push for promotion. No money in the world that we could afford would keep Morgan beyond this season. If the reported 400k or thereabouts interest is true, it would be a fantastic return for a player who will walk for less in the summer, plus there is always the chance they will loan him back till the end of the season. He is almost certain to earn 5 times at least what he is probably on at the moment and no-one can deny him that opportunity.

Tierney on the other hand is a Celtic fan, has an affiliation with the club, gets Champions League/Europa League football each season with a team regularly winning the league and national cups. Add to this, he has probably more than doubled/tripled his four figure weekly wages with his new bumper deal. 

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There will be a bit if competition for Lewis' signature, so I don't think £500K with a loan back till the end of the season is remotely unrealistic or unreasonable.
Anything less, would be an absolute sickener.
 


What bargaining power have we got in the competition for his signature? He can sign a deal with anyone he chooses from 1st January with St Mirren being unable to stop it. Why would a club bid more money to sign him and loan him back when they would achieve the exact same outcome by convincing him to sign a pre-contract and paying compensation when his contract expires? Loan back = still saints player until summer. Pre-contract = still saints player until the summer. No one is paying more than compensation for Lewis Morgan. It defies logic.
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Just now, Drew said:

There will be a bit if competition for Lewis' signature, so I don't think £500K with a loan back till the end of the season is remotely unrealistic or unreasonable.

Anything less, would be an absolute sickener.

 

I get that Drew but, as the buying club, why wouldn't you use the money to entice the player rather than pay a "fee" that you wouldn't have to.....as far as I'm aware we don't even have to give any club permission to speak to the player once the window opens.

What might be possible would be to take a fee now and forego any "sell-on", or "secondary development fee" clause in the future up until the player goes beyond the age thresholds.

 

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7 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

 


What bargaining power have we got in the competition for his signature? He can sign a deal with anyone he chooses from 1st January with St Mirren being unable to stop it. Why would a club bid more money to sign him and loan him back when they would achieve the exact same outcome by convincing him to sign a pre-contract and paying compensation when his contract expires? Loan back = still saints player until summer. Pre-contract = still saints player until the summer. No one is paying more than compensation for Lewis Morgan. It defies logic.

 

So you're assuming that the only competitive element (assuming more than one club would be interested) would be around the player's terms?

My hope is that the club will still have some influence come January and that will oblige any suitors to look at a reasonable fee to secure the player. That has happened in the past (see the reference to Hendrie above).

I don't know all the instructions and outs of these things, but I don't think it will only come down to a PCA and compensation.

Edited by Drew
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No extention to his Contract makes me think another Club has already tapped him up.

If not, there is absolutely no good reason why he can't sign an extended Contract for St Mirren, even for 6 years. 

Such a talent, he will move onto his next Chapter, no problem. 

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2 minutes ago, Drew said:

 

So you're assuming that the only competitive element (assuming more than one club would be interested) would be around the player's terms?

My hope is that the club will still have some influence come January and that will oblige any suitors to look at a reasonable fee to secure the player. That has happened in the past (see the reference to Hendry above).

I don't know all the instructions and outs of these things, but I don't think it will only come down to a PCA and compensation.

I absolutely hope you're right Drew and maybe the fact that we're prepared to release him early from his contract, although "take him back on loan", might see a transfer fee rather than a development fee and take away the element of competition for his signature as his contract runs down.

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So you're assuming that the only competitive element (assuming more than one club would be interested) would be around the player's terms?
My hope is that the club will still have some influence come January and that will oblige any suitors to look at a reasonable fee to secure the player. That has happened in the past (see the reference to Hendry above).
I don't know all the instructions and outs of these things, but I don't think it will only come down to a PCA and compensation.


So from where I am looking at it I picture a few scenarios. Let's say for example the below happens.

Nottingham Forrest and Celtic go into a bidding war. Celtic win and bid £500k for Morgan and part of that deal is he'll be loaned back to St Mirren until end of the season.

Nottingham Forrest then decide to offer Morgan a pre-contract (even if we accept Celtics offer, Morgan is still fully free to talk to Forrest and accept the pre-contract. we have no control over that even by accepting a £500k bid) say the compensation is £200k. Nottingham forest then use the other £300k Celtic have bit as a sweetener to get Morgan to sign the pre-contract.

Morgan remains a st Mirren player until summer (as he would in loan back deal) and Forrest have spent same amount as Celtic have on transfer fees alone. (Celtic would of had to spend money on sign on fees over and above)

Under those circumstances why would Celtic or anyone else be wasting that money on a transfer fee? They could also go down pre-contract route and use the money they would have on a transfer in better conditions for Morgan. It would also amount to same as a loan back deal.
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5 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

I get that Drew but, as the buying club, why wouldn't you use the money to entice the player rather than pay a "fee" that you wouldn't have to.....as far as I'm aware we don't even have to give any club permission to speak to the player once the window opens.

What might be possible would be to take a fee now and forego any "sell-on", or "secondary development fee" clause in the future up until the player goes beyond the age thresholds.

 

Aye, that would be the hope.

It could be in the buying club's interest to pay some form of fee in January in order to effectively seal the deal. Who is to say that Morgan will agree to sign a PCA, when there is a chance that he could hold out till the summer and possibly command better terms elsewhere?

By agreeing and paying a fee in January (chicken feed by English standards), they have the player, guaranteed. Loan him back to us for the remainder of the season, and he continues to develop.

Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems to make sense to me.

 

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I seem to remember a statement from Lewis at the beginning of the season where he said that he was more than happy to stay with us until the end of the season and would love for the club to make a decent return on any transfer for him when he leaves, he has a great relationship with Jack and James and wouldn't want to leave without the club getting a reasonable pay off when the inevitable comes to pass.

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Just now, Drew said:

Aye, that would be the hope.

It could be in the buying club's interest to pay some form of fee in January in order to effectively seal the deal. Who is to say that Morgan will agree to sign a PCA, when there is a chance that he could hold out till the summer and possibly command better terms elsewhere?

By agreeing and paying a fee in January (chicken feed by English standards), they have the player, guaranteed. Loan him back to us for the remainder of the season, and he continues to develop.

Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems to make sense to me.

 

Makes sense to me too but my fear is I'm looking at it purely from a black and white (although a little grey) perspective!!

 

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Just now, WeeBud said:

Makes sense to me too but my fear is I'm looking at it purely from a black and white (although a little grey) perspective!!

 

Indeed.

It's all ifs and buts. We can only hope, I suppose (apparently it is what kills you, right enough:ph34r:).

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I absolutely hope you're right Drew and maybe the fact that we're prepared to release him early from his contract, although "take him back on loan", might see a transfer fee rather than a development fee and take away the element of competition for his signature as his contract runs down.


So why would that be more money? If the development fee is less and a ore-contract means he's still a st Mirren player why would a club bid more then give him back anyway? Doesn't benefit the buying club in anyway.
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3 minutes ago, BaldyOzBud said:

I seem to remember a statement from Lewis at the beginning of the season where he said that he was more than happy to stay with us until the end of the season and would love for the club to make a decent return on any transfer for him when he leaves, he has a great relationship with Jack and James and wouldn't want to leave without the club getting a reasonable pay off when the inevitable comes to pass.

Action is louder than words. 

He ain't for signing an extension to back up his worthless statements. 

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I appreciate it's a tricky situation to get our heads round but bottom line is Morgan holds all the cards here. St Mirren have no bargaining power. He can sign a pre-contract in January or in Feb, March, April May and we'd get same amount of money. We're beyond the point where we can instigate a bidding war and get a loan back deal (as loan back is same as pre-contract in this circumstance)

The only outcome I see where we'd get a bit extra is if it was a McAllister situation and the club didn't want to loan him back. Even then if it's not a club Morgan wants to sign for he can opt to sign for someone else (providing they can afford the compensation)

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26 minutes ago, shull said:

Action is louder than words. 

He ain't for signing an extension to back up his worthless statements. 

Harsh perhaps but probably accurate. The boy Tierney has signed a 6 year deal with Celtic. It's very unlikely he will be contemplating staying for anything like  6 years but it's the right move for him and the Club. Our Academy is doing great work but most of the top talent works an exit by running down their contracts at the club's expense.

Edited by magnus
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