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21 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:

Watching from the stand will be good preparations for what will be ahead if he signs for the Tic..

 

Understand the glamour and money - but I would rather be playing every game that 30th choice for the 1st team..

 

OK over time he should develop - but he will need more than 6 months 1st team football with us..I think a season with us in the premiership would be a much better preparation for him.

He is good but he is not a 1st 11 cert in a premiership team just yet - certainly not 1 of the top 8 sides. I know others may disagree - but I don't think he has shown the consistency or the stamina for 90 minutes that is required every week for the higher level. I know guys who bang in the goals get away with that more than say defenders would, but he will find it harder to bang in the goals at the next level up too.

 

Remember Mallan ... how's his transfer working out for his playing progress?

Morgan was the only player from the Championship in the last 4 Scotland U21 games. Man of the match in each game outshining £15M Oliver Burke in those games. Besides maybe Celtic - and I do not rate him any less than Forrest - he would walk into any Premiership team. He has already proved he can do it at the top level.

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1 hour ago, Sonny said:

Morgan was the only player from the Championship in the last 4 Scotland U21 games. Man of the match in each game outshining £15M Oliver Burke in those games. Besides maybe Celtic - and I do not rate him any less than Forrest - he would walk into any Premiership team. He has already proved he can do it at the top level.

I did say  that I believed the only areas where he lacked were  - consistency or the stamina for 90 minutes - of course he is talented but for the last month he has not exactly been on fire - you cannot be guaranteed a place in the 1st 11 in the Premiership each week having an off month whenever you like.

Don't get me wrong - he has still contributed for us during this time - but not at his best - like he did during the under 21 games.. which I doubt are the same standard as the Premiership anyway.  (though it is a top level for under 21s)

It is not about his ability to do it - it is whether he can do it regularly enough and whether he will get much of a chance in a much stronger squad at a higher level..

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Just now, Sweeper07 said:

I did say  that I believed the only areas where he lacked were  - consistency or the stamina for 90 minutes - of course he is talented but for the last month he has not exactly been on fire - you cannot be guaranteed a place in the 1st 11 in the Premiership each week having an off month whenever you like.

Don't get me wrong - he has still contributed for us during this time - but not at his best - like he did during the under 21 games.. which I doubt are the same standard as the Premiership anyway.  (though it is a top level for under 21s)

It is not about his ability to do it - it is whether he can do it regularly enough and whether he will get much of a chance in a much stronger squad at a higher level..

So how many players have been consistent every week? No player is 100% brilliant in every game.  I reckon playing against part-timers and lesser players in stadiums of only a 1,000 or so must be difficult to raise your game to.  Against Celtic last season Morgan was excellent. Likewise against the Dutch U21s and England U21s - possibly better full backs than he would face in the Premiership. So you reckon Accies would prefer Dougie Imrie to Lewis Morgan?

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"No player is 100% brilliant in every game"

Golfers with a scratch handicap are mostly more consistent than golfers who play off of 18.

Likewise better players, playing at higher levels, are required to be on their game more of the time.

Further really good players, who are physically and mentally strong, don't need to "raise their game" - they are on it - that adds to why they are better than others. (as well as their talent, speed etc.)

Once again you are selectively highlighting the games when Morgan was good - but that is no argument to support the concern over the consistency I have raised.

Selecting one player from the Premiership as a comparison is nonsense unless they are the same type of player - "horses for courses" - not many folk would argue that Imrie and Morgan are the same type of player - for a start Imrie has scored only 2 goals for Hamilton this season to Morgan's 10 for us, and Imrie has much stronger upper body strength. I doubt he is nearly as fast as Morgan, but he is as hard as nails.

OK Sonny we disagree a bit, but let's not get heated on this - time will tell. I do hope Morgan stays with us for the rest of this season and for one more in the Premiership with us and then goes on to become a Scotland legend. He is young enough to develop further, I just hope he does not end up opting for the wrong choice too soon and ends up in a similar situation to Mallan... for the lads sake and for ours..

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I believe Morgan is good enough and physically strong enough to start with almost all teams in the Premiership and you don't - fair enough. Mallan is trying to get a game  playing in a far higher level than our Premiership and a more physical League. For Morgan's development I would think Celtic would be the better choice as he is more likely to get a game and Rodgers is an excellent manager who I think would improve him. He wants away anyway so he won't be with us next season whatever happens.

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Just a thought , but I,m thinking Morgan is concerned about picking up a bad injury before his future is decided and that's impacting on his game . So with that in mind a transfer deal in January , that allows him to be loaned back will suit us best , and the sooner we get that sorted the better . Then I think we will see Lewis kick onto another level.

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1 hour ago, Sonny said:

I believe Morgan is good enough and physically strong enough to start with almost all teams in the Premiership and you don't - fair enough. Mallan is trying to get a game  playing in a far higher level than our Premiership and a more physical League. For Morgan's development I would think Celtic would be the better choice as he is more likely to get a game and Rodgers is an excellent manager who I think would improve him. He wants away anyway so he won't be with us next season whatever happens.

Sonny agree with some of this ....Morgan is  maybe good enough to start for every team Bar Celtic..... and I think Celtic will take him, however even though they will loan him back to us, Celtic have shown that they trash more than they develop, and BR- Well jury is out, cause its not a level playing field by any means, look at Celtics bench, they have millions sitting watching games, they have cover twice over in every department, they have the likes of Christie that they can recall at anytime, and if they do loan Lewis back, then he will hardly be coached by BR,

BR an excellent manager- hmmmmmmmmm- Neil Lennon, GS , MON, have all done far far better with stronger domestic and just as strong European challenges.... Sevco, if they had beaten Dundee and Accies would be one point behind...................... I get feeling he will burst his bubble when Celts crash out Europe , and if Sevco ever get their act together...

Also do not get why BR persists with playing out the back in Europe, that just doesn't float yet he resists a plan B........ Hope Saints have a Plan B again so far we haven't shown one either

 

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12 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Sonny agree with some of this ....Morgan is  maybe good enough to start for every team Bar Celtic..... and I think Celtic will take him, however even though they will loan him back to us, Celtic have shown that they trash more than they develop, and BR- Well jury is out, cause its not a level playing field by any means, look at Celtics bench, they have millions sitting watching games, they have cover twice over in every department, they have the likes of Christie that they can recall at anytime, and if they do loan Lewis back, then he will hardly be coached by BR,

BR an excellent manager- hmmmmmmmmm- Neil Lennon, GS , MON, have all done far far better with stronger domestic and just as strong European challenges.... Sevco, if they had beaten Dundee and Accies would be one point behind...................... I get feeling he will burst his bubble when Celts crash out Europe , and if Sevco ever get their act together...

Also do not get why BR persists with playing out the back in Europe, that just doesn't float yet he resists a plan B........ Hope Saints have a Plan B again so far we haven't shown one either

 

We all know Morgan has talent what also makes him a standout is the fact he can control a ball with both right and left feet that is the icing on the cake and will help him walk  into  any team in Scotland. 

Edited by Isle Of Bute Saint

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2 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Sonny agree with some of this ....Morgan is  maybe good enough to start for every team Bar Celtic..... and I think Celtic will take him, however even though they will loan him back to us, Celtic have shown that they trash more than they develop, and BR- Well jury is out, cause its not a level playing field by any means, look at Celtics bench, they have millions sitting watching games, they have cover twice over in every department, they have the likes of Christie that they can recall at anytime, and if they do loan Lewis back, then he will hardly be coached by BR,

BR an excellent manager- hmmmmmmmmm- Neil Lennon, GS , MON, have all done far far better with stronger domestic and just as strong European challenges.... Sevco, if they had beaten Dundee and Accies would be one point behind...................... I get feeling he will burst his bubble when Celts crash out Europe , and if Sevco ever get their act together...

Also do not get why BR persists with playing out the back in Europe, that just doesn't float yet he resists a plan B........ Hope Saints have a Plan B again so far we haven't shown one either

 

Again fair enough DJ. BR took a Celtic team managed by Ronnie and without making many changes transformed the existing playing staff. (By the way BR is the manager that inspires Jack !). But he was still short of a winger and Roberts was brought in on loan and will return again to Man City at the end of the season. I reckon that is where BR sees Morgan fitting in as they have cover in most positions but few wingers bar Forrest and he is pretty inconsistent although seems to be performing a bit better this season.

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38 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

We all know Morgan has talent what also makes him a standout is the fact he can control a ball with both right and left feet that is the icing on the cake and will help him walk  into  any team in Paisley, Scotland. 

:rolleyes:

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This thread is good - the opinions are fair and the counter ideas are decent and argued reasonably: beats the nonsense that fills so many slots elsewhere.

(OK now I know someone will react to this)

I cannot for now (or for the next 10 months)  see Morgan being slotted in to the tic 1st team even if the likes of Forrest is out injured - guys like Christie, Scott Allan etc were stand-outs and widely seen as guys who would get their chance, but haven't. I don't know Morgan, but do admire what he brings to us, but Like Mallan, I think he will need to bulk up and get stronger before he gets good action in a higher division.

I think the Saints management need to catch this too - why should Barnsley be better at taking lads to the next level that we could? Maybe we need to up the ante from a younger age and set higher standards of fitness etc. as well as the ball and strategy stuff.. who knows - but we should always be looking to progress.

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1 hour ago, Spam_Valley said:

He's unbeaten domestically and won the treble last year mate :lol:

Fully agree that BR is an excellent manager - perhaps the best that Tic have ever had..

But Scottish Football is hardly a level playing field - I find it hard to believe that they haven't been winning the treble for years with their budget and the "value" of their squad compared to everyone else..

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17 hours ago, Spam_Valley said:

He's unbeaten domestically and won the treble last year mate :lol:

Yeah, an incredible achievement with  a squad worth over 100m, an average wage of 750k and over 20 internationalists, and the ability to buy talent and then farm them out. Look 67 games is an achievement but come on, its like Man City winning the English Championship   and the Johnstone Painting Trophy or whatever its called...... 

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24 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Yeah, an incredible achievement with  a squad worth over 100m, an average wage of 750k and over 20 internationalists, and the ability to buy talent and then farm them out. Look 67 games is an achievement but come on, its like Man City winning the English Championship   and the Johnstone Painting Trophy or whatever its called...... 

Something which Strachan, O'Neill & Lennon couldn't achieve despite being far far better domestically allegedly....

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11 minutes ago, Spam_Valley said:

Something which Strachan, O'Neill & Lennon couldn't achieve despite being far far better domestically allegedly....

Eh but they had Rangers 1873 remember? RD had Aberdeen, no Hibs, Sevco or Hearts , just St Johnstone Caley and Accies.... BR has had McInnes head to head with 50 times his budget...... Behave.................. Do u think BR would win treble at Aberdeen ??

BR is a nice guy, but Anderlecht and his time at Liverpool has shown has no Plan B

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4 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Eh but they had Rangers 1873 remember? RD had Aberdeen, no Hibs, Sevco or Hearts , just St Johnstone Caley and Accies.... BR has had McInnes head to head with 50 times his budget...... Behave.................. Do u think BR would win treble at Aberdeen ??

BR is a nice guy, but Anderlecht and his time at Liverpool has shown has no Plan B

*1872.

It doesn't escape the fact that he won the treble in his first season and remains unbeaten since his arrival. I can't quite see how the other managers you mentioned have done 'far far better' than that.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Spam_Valley said:

*1872.

It doesn't escape the fact that he won the treble in his first season and remains unbeaten since his arrival. I can't quite see how the other managers you mentioned have done 'far far better' than that.

 

 

Mate- they had competition he hasn't , and every time he has played "The Celtic Way" he has lost 0-5,1-7, 0-7, 0-3.... Thank god u support Saints..... I don't think any English PL team would have lost that heavy and I am including Swansea in that. Again nice guy, will win lots of Scottish trophies but has no Plan B 

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1 minute ago, DougJamie said:

Mate- they had competition he hasn't , and every time he has played "The Celtic Way" he has lost 0-5,1-7, 0-7, 0-3.... Thank god u support Saints..... I don't think any English PL team would have lost that heavy and I am including Swansea in that. Again nice guy, will win lots of Scottish trophies but has no Plan B 

Arsenal lost 5-1 twice to Bayern last season although not quite sure why you're comparing Celtic to a Premier League side? 

Youre only 2nd to Shull for your obsession with anything OF, time for a new hobby? :wink:

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1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

Arsenal lost 5-1 twice to Bayern last season although not quite sure why you're comparing Celtic to a Premier League side? 

Youre only 2nd to Shull for your obsession with anything OF, time for a new hobby? :wink:

I was comparing Rodgers tactics not Celtic- Guy was a car crash with Liverpool as well didn't even get thru group stages with them

 

A Hamster could manage Celtic to the treble and still not lose 12-1 to PSG.................................

 

2nd to Shull geeez--------- Thanks FAS---- I must do better :whistle

 

 

 

 

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Rodgers is a very good coach. Pressure - and failing to replace Suarez with a striker with pace - done for him. That and Sturridge's constant injuries. He's doing well with Celtic, but does need to learn how to play a more defensive game when required, even a counter attacking style, if he's going to get back to a top job.

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2 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Mate- they had competition he hasn't , and every time he has played "The Celtic Way" he has lost 0-5,1-7, 0-7, 0-3.... Thank god u support Saints..... I don't think any English PL team would have lost that heavy and I am including Swansea in that. Again nice guy, will win lots of Scottish trophies but has no Plan B 

Celtic and Rangers have had 100x the budget of other teams since time began ffs. It hasn't changed from then til now.  You mentioned Deila above who despite having a lesser league (no Rangers, no Hearts, no Hibs) did not manage to win the league unbeaten... You can't get any better than a domestic treble and unbeaten league campaign :lol:

He played the 'Celtic Way' against Anderlecht away from home and managed to win comfortably or does that not fit your agenda?

I understand we don't like the old firm as fans of proper teams (theres nae old firm Ranjurz are dead etc etc :rolleyes:) but you can't underestimate Celtics achievement of last season and Rodgers' influence.

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16 minutes ago, Spam_Valley said:

Celtic and Rangers have had 100x the budget of other teams since time began ffs. It hasn't changed from then til now.  You mentioned Deila above who despite having a lesser league (no Rangers, no Hearts, no Hibs) did not manage to win the league unbeaten... You can't get any better than a domestic treble and unbeaten league campaign :lol:

He played the 'Celtic Way' against Anderlecht away from home and managed to win comfortably or does that not fit your agenda?

I understand we don't like the old firm as fans of proper teams (theres nae old firm Ranjurz are dead etc etc :rolleyes:) but you can't underestimate Celtics achievement of last season and Rodgers' influence.

Look I am not disagreeing that BR is a good coach " domestically" and developing players..... I am just saying he also has to be judged on the terrible embarrassing results in Europe. Are Celtic really 11 goals worse than the Champions of France Conceding 12 in 180 mins ....... is this also being anti OF?   This not about Celtic its about Rodgers in Europe, I can hardly question his domestic records against giants like Ross County and Hamiliton, and the mighty Sevco

Celtic on and off the field have improved massively  under him, BUT, I have no agenda, and his 3-0 win was against a managerless  Anderlecht in free fall was reversed the other night.

Anyway Spam a wee pic below for you so you can pin on your bedroom wall and have lovely dreams about ur hero xx.............. you might find Liverpool fans agree with some of my points

Image result for brendan rodgers funny

 

Edited by DougJamie

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