Another Attack In London

[Longtimecoming]

11 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

 

Nobody on here has said suggested or even hinted at that.

The nature of the attack is what sets it apart, nothing to do with the race or ethnicity of victims or perpetrator.

 

Never said anybody on here did.

Plenty of people have though.

[faraway saint]

Just now, Slartibartfast said:

 

What exactly is your definition of terrorism?

 

Thought that was agreed a while ago.......................a cnut who does bad stuff?

[faraway saint]

12 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

 

That wouldn't be terrorism, that would be a terrorist. Do keep up.

 

Sorry, the bad stuff a cnut does.

Now, feck off.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Would also say this was a racist attack. What are we going to call a murderer who kills someone at random or after an old firm game when someone lost their life because of religion. What is the difference between that and a nut job who goes out their way to kill a Muslim. It's political jargon that suits the time. 

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, BuddieinEK said:

 

Aye... Big difference between a racist nutjob and a terrorist who would generally be part of a cell.

 

A terrorist attacks to promote terror. Whether they are alone or in collusion with others is neither here nor there. His actions invoke fear. Another word for terror. We can't minimise the aftermath just because it's assumed he didn't have others encouraging his actions.

[BuddieinEK]

A terrorist attacks to promote terror. Whether they are alone or in collusion with others is neither here nor there. His actions invoke fear. Another word for terror. We can't minimise the aftermath just because it's assumed he didn't have others encouraging his actions.

But we can avoid spreading unnecessary fear, panic, terror.

The quick attachment of the words "terrorist attack" simply serve to sensationalise an isolated incident and potentially fuel reprisals imo.

Better calling it what it was... A random race hate crime.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

20 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

A terrorist attacks to promote terror. Whether they are alone or in collusion with others is neither here nor there. His actions invoke fear. Another word for terror. We can't minimise the aftermath just because it's assumed he didn't have others encouraging his actions.

I get what you are writing. So if someone comes at me with a broken pint glass determined to stick it into my face. That would terrify me and more. So the Police come along they will not charge this man with a terrorist attack. The law is much stronger regarding terrorist attacks than someone doing a random attack.  Maybe it being the same is no bad thing however for the moment it's not. Remember 4 Muslims abducted a young Christian in Glasgow they drove the boy all over Scotland torturing the boy for days before killing the poor soul. That was put down as racially motivated, had that been June 2017 it would have a terrorist attack ? The law is different for a terrorist attack as i wrote. So many are programmed to what they here and see on TV. As I wrote further up it is political jargon that suits this time period. 

 

[HSS]

2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Thought that was agreed a while ago.......................a cnut who does bad stuff?

Theresa May??

Edited June 19, 2017 by HSS

[HSS]

9 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

I get what you are writing. So if someone comes at me with a broken pint glass determined to stick it into my face. That would terrify me and more. So the Police come along they will not charge this man with a terrorist attack. The law is much stronger regarding terrorist attacks than someone doing a random attack.  Maybe it being the same is no bad thing however for the moment it's not. Remember 4 Muslims abducted a young Christian in Glasgow they drove the boy all over Scotland torturing the boy for days before killing the poor soul. That was put down as racially motivated, had that been June 2017 it would have a terrorist attack ? The law is different for a terrorist attack as i wrote. So many are programmed to what they here and see on TV. As I wrote further up it is political jargon that suits this time period. 

 

Ibos......explain young christian boy plz.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

1 minute ago, HSS said:

Ibos......explain young christian boy plz.

A young boy 16 who attends church. 

[HSS]

8 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

A young boy 16 who attends church. 

The boy and his mates were trouble,he wasn't attacked for no reason.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Just now, HSS said:

The boy and his mates were trouble,he wasn't attacked for no reason.

He was 15 drove around 200 miles he was stabbed , burnt  bones broken. Nobody deserves that especially a child no matter how big a pain they are. 

[HSS]

1 minute ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

He was 15 drove around 200 miles he was stabbed , burnt  bones broken. Nobody deserves that especially a child no matter how big a pain they are. 

FFS Ibos.....he was 16 a minute ago.

I agree no one deserves it but there are reasons why he got it.Do you think his attackers just randomly picked him off the street?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

9 minutes ago, HSS said:

FFS Ibos.....he was 16 a minute ago.

I agree no one deserves it but there are reasons why he got it.Do you think his attackers just randomly picked him off the street?

I remembered the case so looked it up that's why I changed his age it was 15. Don't know anything about the boy out with what was reported. Even if he was trouble he was a child who suffered a horrific death. 

[zurich_allan]

To add my own brief thought. The usually applied definition of terrorism or a terrorist attack is for either one person or another person to use violence or the threat of violence, with the intention of placing a broader group of people into a position of terror or significant fear, and where that violence or threat of violence is intended to bring about some level of political change.

Those are the essential elements i.e.:

1. Violence / Threat
2. Placing group of people (beyond those directly attacked) in position of terror / fear
3. Aim to bring about political change

All three elements are essential for an attack to be classed as a terrorist attack.

Relating to this particular attack, I think it's borderline on both points 2 and 3, so could see legitimate arguments each side. I think the only way to establish the reality is to formally interview the perpetrator and investigate his background and prior held views.

[DougJamie]

Any thoughts on how we actually combat this? I mean it could be any street, shopping centre, rock concert, is this just part of life now?

Do we need those extra police on the streets now, rather than waiting till we have a change in policy? Would that actually deter......

Seems we have a campaign going on by whoever, that is also being taken up by nutters,

We are now discussing to how the MSM cover atrocities,  

 

 

 

[faraway saint]

1 hour ago, zurich_allan said:

To add my own brief thought. The usually applied definition of terrorism or a terrorist attack is for either one person or another person to use violence or the threat of violence, with the intention of placing a broader group of people into a position of terror or significant fear, and where that violence or threat of violence is intended to bring about some level of political change.

Those are the essential elements i.e.:

1. Violence / Threat
2. Placing group of people (beyond those directly attacked) in position of terror / fear
3. Aim to bring about political change

All three elements are essential for an attack to be classed as a terrorist attack.

Relating to this particular attack, I think it's borderline on both points 2 and 3, so could see legitimate arguments each side. I think the only way to establish the reality is to formally interview the perpetrator and investigate his background and prior held views.

Aye, in this instance there isn't enough to clearly state this was a terrorist attack or racist.

I said earlier there's a fine line between these terms in many cases and I'm not overly fussed as it is clear what he done was a horrific act and down to pure luck the death toll was not higher.

It's being reported his family are utterly shocked by this, at this stage nothing coming through he has any "form" to carry out this atrocity.

Whatever comes out for is motivation I hope he doesn't taste freedom ever again as he has spread fear and added to the powder keg that is currently bubbling in the UK.

I hope the "mental issues" card isn't played, seems the easy way out for some these days.

A "cnut" is a "cnut" and should be treated as one.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

2 hours ago, DougJamie said:

Any thoughts on how we actually combat this? I mean it could be any street, shopping centre, rock concert, is this just part of life now?

Do we need those extra police on the streets now, rather than waiting till we have a change in policy? Would that actually deter......

Seems we have a campaign going on by whoever, that is also being taken up by nutters,

We are now discussing to how the MSM cover atrocities,  

 

 

 

It's a nightmare situation that will see more attacks happen. Our intelligence groups do their best the problem is everyone knows speak certain words on a mobile it is picked up by GHQ.  Certain words written by e-mail are also picked up then you are watched. Terrorists know this so the clever ones will avoid such forms of communication. The highly trained Isis ones returning from Syria will cause atrocities that's for sure. This is something that won't go away for years to come all caused by the West sticking it's nose in where it was not wanted. 

[Drew]

There is evidently no universal consensus as to what constitutes 'terrorism'.

The issue seems to be that the media and politicians, etc, seem to employ the term selectively.

Working in the field of mental health, I'm also not comfortable with the assumption that many of these people have mental health issues. Damaged, bitter, hateful, etc.? I've no doubt about that, but we need to be careful about how we define mental health.

If the guy who drove the van into the folks outside Finsbury Park Mosque or killed Jo Cox read some of the bile in the Sun, Mail, or Express, and followed Tommy Robinson and his ilk on Facebook, it could easily be argued that his attack was formulated in much the same way as those of Islamic extremists. Intolerance, divisiveness, and disregard for others in favour of an extreme, rigid ideology.

One man's terrorist, is, well.... another man's terrorist.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

There is evidently no universal consensus as to what constitutes 'terrorism'.

The issue seems to be that the media and politicians, etc, seem to employ the term selectively.

Working in the field of mental health, I'm also not comfortable with the assumption that many of these people have mental health issues. Damaged, bitter, hateful, etc.? I've no doubt about that, but we need to be careful about how we define mental health.

If the guy who drove the van into the folks outside Finsbury Park Mosque or killed Jo Cox read some of the bile in the Sun, Mail, or Express, and followed Tommy Robinson and his ilk on Facebook, it could easily be argued that his attack was formulated in much the same way as those of Islamic extremists. Intolerance, divisiveness, and disregard for others in favour of an extreme, rigid ideology.

One man's terrorist, is, well.... another man's terrorist.

Very good point regarding right wing trash papers and some on social media Drew. It breeds hatred. There is an old couple next to me so I collect their Express every morning for them some of the headlines I see make my blood boil. Can't understand why so many are taken in with propaganda political bile on these printed toilet rolls. 

[Vambo57]

5 hours ago, DougJamie said:

Any thoughts on how we actually combat this? I mean it could be any street, shopping centre, rock concert, is this just part of life now?

Do we need those extra police on the streets now, rather than waiting till we have a change in policy? Would that actually deter......

Seems we have a campaign going on by whoever, that is also being taken up by nutters,

We are now discussing to how the MSM cover atrocities,  

 

 

 

Internment?  Get them off the streets, then they can't attack.

[HSS]

1 minute ago, Vambo57 said:

Internment?  Get them off the streets, then they can't attack.

 

1 minute ago, Vambo57 said:

Internment?  Get them off the streets, then they can't attack.

Who are "them"?

[Vambo57]

Been over all this before.  No sides on my part.  Extremists who are on the security forces 'radar' as likely Terrorists or promoters of such.  If they are off the streets, they can't kill innocents.

[faraway saint]

9 minutes ago, Vambo57 said:

Been over all this before.  No sides on my part.  Extremists who are on the security forces 'radar' as likely Terrorists or promoters of such.  If they are off the streets, they can't kill innocents.

How do they qualify as an extremist? On the "radar" for what? How long are they off the streets? You haven't thought this through. Such a simple world.

[mcdowell76]

21 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

The Christian community really need to do more to stop these attacks

Was this guy a radicalised Christian?