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6 hours ago, oaksoft said:

There is almost nothing I despise more than abuse of statistics like this.

You're correct in that it's Conservative spin rather than a balanced analysis of the last GE but "the shameless one" was away having a tantrum and not posting at the time.

Other than his use of the term "Natsi", an unwelcome return to form :rolleyes:, the use of which has been condemned by the Scottish Council of Jewish Communities and would see him suspended from the Conservative Party it's hard to see what there  is to get upset at in this flurry of posts.

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1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

You're correct in that it's Conservative spin rather than a balanced analysis of the last GE but "the shameless one" was away having a tantrum and not posting at the time.

Other than his use of the term "Natsi", an unwelcome return to form :rolleyes:, the use of which has been condemned by the Scottish Council of Jewish Communities and would see him suspended from the Conservative Party it's hard to see what there  is to get upset at in this flurry of posts.

Are you sure?

They don't appear to worry too much about their councillors views in that area, so their members would most likely get off scot free too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41038305

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9 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Are you sure?

They don't appear to worry too much about their councillors views in that area, so their members would most likely get off scot free too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41038305

OK they were councillors but if the Tories were being consistent then they ought to suspend ordinary party members too.

Quote

Mr Majury used his Mulder1981 account on Twitter to make derogatory remarks about Catholics, attack benefit claimants, liken the SNP to Nazis and claim the Scottish government was too busy talking about gay marriage.

Blah, blah, blah

She had previously declined requests to be interviewed after it emerged earlier this week that Mr Majury and Mr Davies had both been reinstated after apologising for their posts.

I reckon a three month suspension and an apology is just about right. 

*****************

I know your POV is that you should laugh it off and it's only a football forum for the "socially challenged" but I'm laying claim to my right to be an obstinate nutter!

 

Edited by Bud the Baker
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4 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

OK they were councillors but if the Tories were being consistent then they ought to suspend ordinary party members too.

I reckon a three month suspension and an apology is just about right. 

*****************

I know your POV is that you should laugh it off and it's only a football forum for the "socially challenged" but I'm laying claim to my right to be an obstinate nutter!

 

You never disappoint!:P

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10 hours ago, Bellside Bud said:

It's hardly an abuse of statistics. The title clearly shows what the statistics are measuring. It is the difference between percentage share of the vote in 2015 to the latest General Election in 2017. The SNP's support has clearly been in decline, and the Conservative Party have been the ones who have benefited. We know this is also true when we look at the seats won in Scotland where the Nationalists lost a massive 21 of the 56 seats they previously held. 

You have chosen a set of statistics which makes it look as though the Tory breakthrough (which it undoubtedly was) was nothing short of a landslide (which it clearly wasnt).

Statistics should be used to produce an accurate picture which helps understand what is going on. The most suitable stats should be used. In other words, you look at the stats and THEN draw conclusions.

What you have done is attempt to skew the big picture by using the most favourable stats you can find. You have drawn a conclusion and then set out to find stats to back that up in the best possible way. Some call this spin, I call it corrupt and deliberate abuse of stats.

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11 hours ago, Bellside Bud said:

Good question. The SNP has most Scottish MP's, at least until the next General Election. Now you tell me which party has the most MP's across the whole of the UK? You know, the UK that the vast majority of Scots wanted to stay in. 

As for question 2 - they are doing better than any other UK party, fairly obviously.

What a poor answer!

Of course the Conservatives have more MPs across the UK than the SNP. I think that even you know the reason for that and I dont fell the need to explain it.

As for question 2, you have not even attempted to answer it. Do you really believe that the Conservatives are making a good job of running the country and the Brexit negotiations? Explain to me how any other party can do better when the Conservatives are in government

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

You have chosen a set of statistics which makes it look as though the Tory breakthrough (which it undoubtedly was) was nothing short of a landslide (which it clearly wasnt).

Statistics should be used to produce an accurate picture which helps understand what is going on. The most suitable stats should be used. In other words, you look at the stats and THEN draw conclusions.

What you have done is attempt to skew the big picture by using the most favourable stats you can find. You have drawn a conclusion and then set out to find stats to back that up in the best possible way. Some call this spin, I call it corrupt and deliberate abuse of stats.

Nonsense, there is no spin. I haven't attempted to dress this graphic up as proof that the conservatives enjoyed a landslide in Scotland, it's you that has interpreted it that way. If you followed the posts you'll know the claim that I made that I was backing up was that whilst opposition parties claimed that the EU was the issue that would kill the Conservatives, the opposite has been true. The SNP has lost a large amount of support because they alienated a large minority of their support who wanted to leave the EU. The SNP's continued agitation on this issue is only serving to damage them further. Whist the General Election showed that despite the fact that many prominent Conservatives pronounced their support of Remain, the fact that the part is getting on with the process of ensuring the will of the people is met has seen their support increase - particularly in Scotland.

The graphic shows quite clearly that the SNP suffered the biggest collapse in it's support at the last General Election. They were THE biggest losers out of all of the UK parties. And as we subsequently saw they lost some of their biggest hitters in the party like Angus Robertson, Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh, Alex Salmond, and John NIcolson. Out of the MP's that did survive one has a majority of just 2, and another - Pete Wishart - has a majority of just 21. Even the much vaunted Mhari Black in Paisley saw her majority dramatically cut. 

For the SNP the Independence Referendum was probably the best possible outcome - whilst the Brexit vote has damaged them beyond repair. 

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1 hour ago, smcc said:

What a poor answer!

Of course the Conservatives have more MPs across the UK than the SNP. I think that even you know the reason for that and I dont fell the need to explain it.

As for question 2, you have not even attempted to answer it. Do you really believe that the Conservatives are making a good job of running the country and the Brexit negotiations? Explain to me how any other party can do better when the Conservatives are in government

Yeah, to be honest I think the Conservatives are making the best of the hand that has been dealt with them. What do you expect in a tough negotiation? It's obvious that both sides would start off with the most extreme of demands and that they would gradually work towards middle ground. If we were to listen to the likes of the Labour Party and the SNP we were supposed to have approached the negotiations having handed over a blank cheque to the EU and having gifted away every negotiating stand point we could possibly have held. And if you listen to the Lib Dems its quite clear they wouldn't have bothered negotiating anything. They would have simply gone back over and over again to the electorate hoping that we'd all change out minds and save them from having to do the hard work. 

Instead of agitating and point scoring from the sidelines, its time all of the parties woke up to the fact that the UK is leaving the EU, that was the democratic will of the people in a fair vote and it's time we all rallied behind the government and let them get on with getting the best possible deal for the whole of the UK. 

People need to remember that in every EU referendum debate there was a solid acceptance that if the UK was to leave the EU there would be "bumps in the road" during the negotiation period and there were warnings about the obvious short term damage that could do to the economy. I heard those warnings very clearly from both sides and certainly from David Cameron and George Osbourne, and I voted to Remain as a result. 

 

 

Edited by Bellside Bud
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4 hours ago, insaintee said:

With Rangers being  back in the top division there was always going to be a wee swing to the conservatives.  How ever with Pedro in charge I can't see them maintain the momentum 

You've went too far there laddie. Rangers can't get back to the top division as THEY'RE DEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Ah the old politics.  Some people, even Buddies can be very stupid when it comes to politics.  Here are some basic facts that we should all be well aware of.

 

1)  The Tories are horrible bastards who don't like Scotland.  London is all that matters to them.  If you are Scottish and vote Tory you are a halfwit.  

 

2)  Labour are the most incompetent shower of dotards (yes I learned that word from Kim Jon aka rocketman) that the political world has ever seen.  Labour themselves are the biggest threat to this country.  Last time out they collapsed our economy, started an illegal war and killed Dr Kelly.  Gordon Brown is hopefully the last ever Labour prime minister.  His incompetence should be taught at school to ensure that future generations never make the same stupid mistakes that allow Labour any where near power in our society.  Labour are unintenionally evil.  If you examine the calibre of Labour candidates the country over you will find them to be of a very poor standard.  Renfrewshire being an excellent example......if any of you paid any attention to the ranting halfwit that was Cllr Terry Kelly you would know exactly what I mean.  Where do they find these people?  The answer is everywhere, hopefully in time our education system will improve and eradicate Labour voters but until that day......don't vote Labour.

 

3)  In Scotland we are lucky, we have another choice.  T

Edited by TediousTom
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1 hour ago, Bellside Bud said:

Nonsense, there is no spin. I haven't attempted to dress this graphic up as proof that the conservatives enjoyed a landslide in Scotland, it's you that has interpreted it that way. If you followed the posts you'll know the claim that I made that I was backing up was that whilst opposition parties claimed that the EU was the issue that would kill the Conservatives, the opposite has been true. The SNP has lost a large amount of support because they alienated a large minority of their support who wanted to leave the EU. The SNP's continued agitation on this issue is only serving to damage them further. Whist the General Election showed that despite the fact that many prominent Conservatives pronounced their support of Remain, the fact that the part is getting on with the process of ensuring the will of the people is met has seen their support increase - particularly in Scotland.

The graphic shows quite clearly that the SNP suffered the biggest collapse in it's support at the last General Election. They were THE biggest losers out of all of the UK parties. And as we subsequently saw they lost some of their biggest hitters in the party like Angus Robertson, Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh, Alex Salmond, and John NIcolson. Out of the MP's that did survive one has a majority of just 2, and another - Pete Wishart - has a majority of just 21. Even the much vaunted Mhari Black in Paisley saw her majority dramatically cut. 

For the SNP the Independence Referendum was probably the best possible outcome - whilst the Brexit vote has damaged them beyond repair. 

Sorry Stuart, I am not prepared to argue over this and I am not prepared to discuss it either.

What I am doing here is simply stating the facts of what you are engaging in. Others can discuss it with you if they want but I have better things to do with my time.

 

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Ah the old politics.  Some people, even Buddies can be very stupid when it comes to politics.  Here are some basic facts that we should all be well aware of.
 
1)  The Tories are horrible bastards who don't like Scotland.  London is all that matters to them.  If you are Scottish and vote Tory you are a halfwit.  
 
2)  Labour are the most incompetent shower of dotards (yes I learned that word from Kim Jon aka rocketman) that the political world has ever seen.  Labour themselves are the biggest threat to this country.  Last time out they collapsed our economy, started an illegal war and killed Dr Kelly.  Gordon Brown is hopefully the last ever Labour prime minister.  His incompetence should be taught at school to ensure that future generations never make the same stupid mistakes that allow Labour any where near power in our society.  Labour are unintenionally evil.  If you examine the calibre of Labour candidates the country over you will find them to be of a very poor standard.  Renfrewshire being an excellent example......if any of you paid any attention to the ranting halfwit that was Cllr Terry Kelly you would know exactly what I mean.  Where do they find these people?  The answer is everywhere, hopefully in time our educattion system will improve and eradicate Labour voters but until that day......don't vote Labour.
 
3)  In Scotland we are lucky, we have another choice.  T


3.... The Greens?
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6 minutes ago, TediousTom said:

Ah the old politics.  Some people, even Buddies can be very stupid when it comes to politics.  Here are some basic facts that we should all be well aware of.

 

1)  The Tories are horrible bastards who don't like Scotland.  London is all that matters to them.  If you are Scottish and vote Tory you are a halfwit.  

 

2)  Labour are the most incompetent shower of dotards (yes I learned that word from Kim Jon aka rocketman) that the political world has ever seen.  Labour themselves are the biggest threat to this country.  Last time out they collapsed our economy, started an illegal war and killed Dr Kelly.  Gordon Brown is hopefully the last ever Labour prime minister.  His incompetence should be taught at school to ensure that future generations never make the same stupid mistakes that allow Labour any where near power in our society.  Labour are unintenionally evil.  If you examine the calibre of Labour candidates the country over you will find them to be of a very poor standard.  Renfrewshire being an excellent example......if any of you paid any attention to the ranting halfwit that was Cllr Terry Kelly you would know exactly what I mean.  Where do they find these people?  The answer is everywhere, hopefully in time our educattion system will improve and eradicate Labour voters but until that day......don't vote Labour.

 

3)  In Scotland we are lucky, we have another choice.  T

Facts huh? 

Let me guess the other choice? UKIP? 

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15 hours ago, windae cleaner said:

 

OK, I've got to ask. What's the significance? 

I know there is a real danger to over analysing Morrissey songs as anything near prophetic. It's taken me till now to understand why hanging the DJ and burning down the disco  was being viewed by the music press as racist. Or why his t-shirt this year got the same criticism. I've never paid much attention to the man having written him off as dull and shite many years ago but it seems that this particular song may have been more than a bit autobiographical from the man who called the Chinese a "sub species" and who has expressed his anti immigration views so forcefully over the last 15 years. 

 

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Good old Labour. Speeches yesterday at conference about renationisation of everything and the hoardes are on their feet - no doubt having been prompted by Momentum. Today away from the conference floor when asked about the cost the tone is predictably different. Apparently we should all have checked the briefing notes where they promise a review to look into the cost of renationisation and seeing which ones might offer value for money to the taxpayer. 

If I've got this right though if Labour ever get into power £100bn is to be spent wiping out all historical student debt, £loads of hundreds of billions to be spent taking back the PFI contracts Labour awarded and used to finance new build hospitals and schools, were also going to give the EU whatever they ask for so we can be their pals after Brexit, and at the same time we're going to invest £hundreds of billions in the NHS and provide free further and higher education for everyone. 

Seriously does anyone out there think Labour have any idea - even the faintest idea - of how they are going to pay for all this? 

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Conference speeches are always to be taken with a pinch of salt, From all parties. Perhaps a read at their costings is necessary. No chance of that with the tories though as they don't do costing. They just come out with the same rhetoric of. "Trust us as we're tories", and a lot of idiots fall for that one continuously.

Edited by stlucifer
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1 hour ago, stlucifer said:

Conference speeches are always to be taken with a pinch of salt, From all parties. Perhaps a read at their costings is necessary. No chance of that with the tories though as they don't do costing. They just come out with the same rhetoric of. "Trust us as we're tories", and a lot of idiots fall for that one continuously.

It'll be interesting to see what the Tories spend the Conference talking about. I wonder if they too will have speakers who want to encourage a debate on whether the Nazi Holocaust happened or not. It's strange that left wingers talk about racism like it's a right wing thing - when it's as clear as the hole in Labours budget plans that the left is riddled with antisemites from the top down and it's certainly not in any position to grab any moral high ground. 

You're right of course Conferences are just like Referendum campaigns. You can promise the earth and hope you never have to deliver - you know, just like the Scottish Nationalists did in the Scottish Independence Referendum, and just like Boris and Co did with their big bus. The sad thing is that it does appear to fool the masses who are clearly too stupid and too disinterested to bother reasoning it out. It looks to me like Momentum have studied what the dishonest SNP campaigns over the last 10 years or so and they've taken it one step further. It's sad really. 

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17 minutes ago, Bellside Bud said:

It'll be interesting to see what the Tories spend the Conference talking about. I wonder if they too will have speakers who want to encourage a debate on whether the Nazi Holocaust happened or not. It's strange that left wingers talk about racism like it's a right wing thing - when it's as clear as the hole in Labours budget plans that the left is riddled with antisemites from the top down and it's certainly not in any position to grab any moral high ground. 

You're right of course Conferences are just like Referendum campaigns. You can promise the earth and hope you never have to deliver - you know, just like the Scottish Nationalists did in the Scottish Independence Referendum, and just like Boris and Co did with their big bus. The sad thing is that it does appear to fool the masses who are clearly too stupid and too disinterested to bother reasoning it out. It looks to me like Momentum have studied what the dishonest SNP campaigns over the last 10 years or so and they've taken it one step further. It's sad really. 

I've no real interest in the labour party though I would suggest if there was a platform for what you suggest the right wing media would have heralded it from the rooftops rather than wee forums proclaiming such things.

My post was about the hypocrisy of tories talking down Labour budget plans then accepting ghost figures, sorry, no figures from their own. Remember the labour party were accused of digging money out from a fictitious money tree shortly before the tories clung onto power by bribing  an even more ultra conservative party using money that suddenly appeared from nowhere.

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6 hours ago, Bellside Bud said:

OK, I've got to ask. What's the significance? 

I know there is a real danger to over analysing Morrissey songs as anything near prophetic. It's taken me till now to understand why hanging the DJ and burning down the disco  was being viewed by the music press as racist. Or why his t-shirt this year got the same criticism. I've never paid much attention to the man having written him off as dull and shite many years ago but it seems that this particular song may have been more than a bit autobiographical from the man who called the Chinese a "sub species" and who has expressed his anti immigration views so forcefully over the last 15 years. 

 

To be honest I prefer to hear from the man himself as to his views.

Both Marr and Morrissey made it clear that the song Panic was a reference to Steve Wright playing a Wham song immediately after announcing the Chernobyl disaster.

The racism bit apparently came from idiots who think the word "disco" and "black" mean the same thing despite the vast number of white bands who played disco music as well. This shouldn't surprise us. The world is full of people who shouldn't be trusted with sharp instruments.

When referring to the Chinese he was referring specifically to their animal rights record. As an animal rights activist it's not surprising that he attacked the Chinese.

I don't agree with his views on immigration but he is perfectly entitled to bemoan the change in the culture of the country he grew up in.

What bothers me more than most things is this obsession with what people say rather than what they actually do. Our culture seems to be terrified of words.
You may think Morrissey is dull but a world in which people can't speak their minds for fear of some f**kwit dissecting and misrepresenting every single word is much worse IMO.

Edited by oaksoft
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