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saints fans survey 2017


thewhiteman

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18 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

 

No horse here - high or otherwise - but - I am still to be convinced of the model, long term.

Do I have faith in the current Board / Manager / Assistant Etc - Yes - I am a season ticket holder and have attended games regulary, both home and away, since 1974.

Less noise please and more persuasion.


Everyone will have different reasons for not joining. I just feel a lot are a bit on their high horse about why they haven't joined. The absolute rubbish on here about not being reimbursed for players wages after we sold someone or when the youth academy was given more money! It amazes me the number of people that want something back from St Mirren.

I may be in the minority (or from the way the votings went probably not) but I have full trust in the people running our club to do what's right for the team. If it was up to me I'd say let them fully decide how to spend the discretionary fund.

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

New survey out, summary of options below.

1. Equipment for youth academy £3k
2. Equipment for St Mirren in the community £1,325
3. Glenvale FF £1,820
4. St Mirren Amputee Football Team £1k
5. St Mirren FC £855

Funny feeling all will pass and I'm happy with that. Good mix of community funding and benefit to St Mirren FC... queue SD new account moaning about nothing.

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8 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

New survey out, summary of options below.

1. Equipment for youth academy £3k
2. Equipment for St Mirren in the community £1,325
3. Glenvale FF £1,820
4. St Mirren Amputee Football Team £1k
5. St Mirren FC £855

Funny feeling all will pass and I'm happy with that. Good mix of community funding and benefit to St Mirren FC... queue SD new account moaning about nothing.

Don't think all options can be passed.One to be picked and whatever ones not picked then that money is saved. 

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53 minutes ago, HSS said:

Don't think all options can be passed.One to be picked and whatever ones not picked then that money is saved. 

A wee bit different to that. Each project could be funded if more people vote 'Yes' rather than 'No' for it.

at long last Smisa have come up with a voting process that can see community projects funded as they are not in direct competition with throwing money at the club options. That said seeing the well funded Youth academy at the top of the tree again with its hands out for another £3k just smacks of money being chucked at the club to psy bills it has already budgeted for.

this is where the Smisa committee need a re-think in my opinion. I believe most members would be happy to endorse spending on club/academy projects if they can actually see their spend making a difference that would otherwise not have happened (think disabled viewing platform).

you can see where the funding to community projects will make a difference, but the club/academy options just look like money going into the club bank account to be spent on the next bill. I would and do propose that Smisa initiate a project to investigate how the £2 spend pot can be used to make a clear and obvious difference on club spending options. For example there have been many calls to bank the monthly pot for either a rainy day, or big ticket item. Thats the thinking we need to see as an option coming from smisa instead of continually responding to suggestions with "sorry but we can only consider spending suggestions that are fully costed, planned and what the club want"

smisa/we will be running the club in the not too distant future, its time smisa/we stepped up, consulted, proposed, agreed and spent our funds on what We/Smisa want to see it spent on.... the club have their own funds and budget to spend as they see fit, we should be doing that too, and demonstrating/learning how to manage spending projects from conception to implementation to ongoing management.

start simple... invest in a Smisa owned and run cafe/snack van and get a ROI to fund other initiatives. 

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34 minutes ago, David Mc said:

Total is £8K so all can go ahead if we choose.

You're correct,I read it wrongly.

"For the ballot we will have a separate vote on each project where you will be asked to vote yes or no. Each vote will be decided by simple majority. If a project is not supported, the amount next to it will stay in the pot for a future spend. These proposals add up to £8000. The total pot earned this quarter is c. £8200. Any monies not spent will be carried forward and added to the surpluses from previous ballots, and will be available to top up future ballot amounts if required."

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A wee bit different to that. Each project could be funded if more people vote 'Yes' rather than 'No' for it.
at long last Smisa have come up with a voting process that can see community projects funded as they are not in direct competition with throwing money at the club options. That said seeing the well funded Youth academy at the top of the tree again with its hands out for another £3k just smacks of money being chucked at the club to psy bills it has already budgeted for.
this is where the Smisa committee need a re-think in my opinion. I believe most members would be happy to endorse spending on club/academy projects if they can actually see their spend making a difference that would otherwise not have happened (think disabled viewing platform).
you can see where the funding to community projects will make a difference, but the club/academy options just look like money going into the club bank account to be spent on the next bill. I would and do propose that Smisa initiate a project to investigate how the £2 spend pot can be used to make a clear and obvious difference on club spending options. For example there have been many calls to bank the monthly pot for either a rainy day, or big ticket item. Thats the thinking we need to see as an option coming from smisa instead of continually responding to suggestions with "sorry but we can only consider spending suggestions that are fully costed, planned and what the club want"
smisa/we will be running the club in the not too distant future, its time smisa/we stepped up, consulted, proposed, agreed and spent our funds on what We/Smisa want to see it spent on.... the club have their own funds and budget to spend as they see fit, we should be doing that too, and demonstrating/learning how to manage spending projects from conception to implementation to ongoing management.
start simple... invest in a Smisa owned and run cafe/snack van and get a ROI to fund other initiatives. 


I think you have to remember though a lot of paying members are perfectly happy for the money to go to our club. If it was up to me I'd give every penny to St Mirren and let them decide what it goes on, be that the club or community. We aren't two separate entities imo. Anything that benefits my club will get my vote.

People have moaned previously about not enough community stuff. This vote there's a really good balance between community and St Mirren plus the options to carry. Very happy with it.

In regards to the money making a real difference. I think people have to remember it's only about £8k a quarter. Drop in the ocean in football terms. Great to see things like disabled platform but we can't really expect changes like that all the time. Got to remember it's an interim board we have right now. Changes that fans want can wait to a certain extent.
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31 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

 


I think you have to remember though a lot of paying members are perfectly happy for the money to go to our club. If it was up to me I'd give every penny to St Mirren and let them decide what it goes on, be that the club or community. We aren't two separate entities imo. Anything that benefits my club will get my vote.

People have moaned previously about not enough community stuff. This vote there's a really good balance between community and St Mirren plus the options to carry. Very happy with it.

In regards to the money making a real difference. I think people have to remember it's only about £8k a quarter. Drop in the ocean in football terms. Great to see things like disabled platform but we can't really expect changes like that all the time. Got to remember it's an interim board we have right now. Changes that fans want can wait to a certain extent.

 

I think you have to remember what the Buy The Buds campaign promised!

totally respect the members vote, think the club chairman made a huge error of judgement bullying smisa members round to his way of thinking. Seems he is not big on democracy, amd letting it lead its course.

is small minded thinking to fail to realise what you can do, set in motion with £8k. Its a lot more than Facebook, Apple or any number of huge companies started with.

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When the Buds is Bought & the bills start coming in, what then will fund
Training equipment for the academy
Who will fund "match quality" footballs for 1st team training?
How will St MIrren in the community get funded?

There really needs to be a save for the rainy day fund for when SMISA are officially, the owners.

If a GLS guided St Mirren thats brought in an additional £400k in transfer fees, needs to ask its supporters for financial ssistance, what chance SMISA wont need to do the same?

The option really needs to have a 'Save it' option on every ballot.

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2 hours ago, Graeme Aitken said:

When the Buds is Bought & the bills start coming in, what then will fund
Training equipment for the academy
Who will fund "match quality" footballs for 1st team training?
How will St MIrren in the community get funded?

There really needs to be a save for the rainy day fund for when SMISA are officially, the owners.

If a GLS guided St Mirren thats brought in an additional £400k in transfer fees, needs to ask its supporters for financial ssistance, what chance SMISA wont need to do the same?

The option really needs to have a 'Save it' option on every ballot.

I would add - save it until we buy out the shares, because the SMiSA board interpret saving it as making the next spend even bigger and rest assured the club and academy will have no problem in asking for double the amount next time round. Meanwhile board members and guests have no problem in getting their free food and refreshments on a match day, maybe they should have a "pay for your dinner and refreshment day" and fund the new equipment needed that way, not a fat cat in hells chance of that happening though.

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When the Buds is Bought & the bills start coming in, what then will fund
Training equipment for the academy
Who will fund "match quality" footballs for 1st team training?
How will St MIrren in the community get funded?

There really needs to be a save for the rainy day fund for when SMISA are officially, the owners.

If a GLS guided St Mirren thats brought in an additional £400k in transfer fees, needs to ask its supporters for financial ssistance, what chance SMISA wont need to do the same?

The option really needs to have a 'Save it' option on every ballot.


To answer your initial questions potentially those who continue to pay their £12 a month. If a 1,000 can be convinced rob stay on that's a decent sum of money.
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To answer your initial questions potentially those who continue to pay their £12 a month. If a 1,000 can be convinced rob stay on that's a decent sum of money.


I cannot imagine 1000 supporters continuing to "invest" £12 per month once the Buds is Bought.

Over the current term of 10 years, £1440 is not a paltry investment for hee haw in return other than rubber stamping the paying of some shopping lists of the club (which, imho, should be budgeted for by the club)

So, back to where will the club get the finances to pay for x, y & z that it is currently going to SMISA to pay for.


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I've got no intention of stopping my £12 payment, unless I asked to by the club.


If folk want to continue paying the £12 per month beyond the buy out, that'll be great news for the club.
Right here, right now, i cannot see anywhere near 1000 people continuing.
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On 10/27/2017 at 8:57 PM, Lord Pityme said:

I think you have to remember what the Buy The Buds campaign promised!

totally respect the members vote, think the club chairman made a huge error of judgement bullying smisa members round to his way of thinking. Seems he is not big on democracy, amd letting it lead its course.

is small minded thinking to fail to realise what you can do, set in motion with £8k. Its a lot more than Facebook, Apple or any number of huge companies started with.

I at no time remember a promise that every penny will go to community. I do remember that SMISA would take on suggestions from the club and members to propose spend options. From where I'm standing that's exactly what has happened. It's been well discussed previously and complaints have been quashed that the club or SMISA are doing something wrong in regards to proposals or spend. The bottomline from what I can see is, more paying members want to benefit their football club first and foremost. For me, if it's mutually beneficial to the wider community great and I fully support charity work and involvement from SMISA and St Mirren. If St Mirren want the money for something that will always be my priority. I donate my money to better my club. I give money to charity and have supported community projects in the past but this £25 from my pocket, it's for St Mirren.  

£8k is small beans for a football club but yes it can make a big difference. Would I like to see that difference for the betterment of my club? Yes. I know and a lot of people know your feelings but i think there's a few home truths you have to accept.

1. Majority of fans are happy with the way this is working currently

2. Majority of fans seem more concerned with putting St Mirren first and foremost in this deal

3. Majority of fans may just be happy to see this money help with bills around the club so those funds can be diverted elsewhere

4. There is nothing illegal, immoral or underhanded about the way SMISA pick suggestions and democratically get agreeance. 

I base all the above on the previous votes + the people that continue to pay but don't seem interested in the vote, which is absolutely fine. The bulk of the £12/£25 id far more important.

Taking into account all those things i would love to see the fans that just feel we should be spending every single penny on community or projects they want, to accept that in a democracy sometimes things won't always go your way. 

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On 10/27/2017 at 9:27 PM, Graeme Aitken said:

When the Buds is Bought & the bills start coming in, what then will fund
Training equipment for the academy
Who will fund "match quality" footballs for 1st team training?
How will St MIrren in the community get funded?

There really needs to be a save for the rainy day fund for when SMISA are officially, the owners.

If a GLS guided St Mirren thats brought in an additional £400k in transfer fees, needs to ask its supporters for financial ssistance, what chance SMISA wont need to do the same?

The option really needs to have a 'Save it' option on every ballot.

It would all get funded, no one is saying without the money this stuff wouldn't happen. Us paying for it frees up funds in the overall budget and effectively does save it because it's money the club can carry over to buy whatever else with. For me there is zero difference in St Mirren saving money and SMISA saving money. Our goals are aligned. Too much of us and them mentality IMO.  

Save it is very very clearly on the options. Just vote no. I would seriously worry about any adult not understanding the very simple instructions. 

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35 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I at no time remember a promise that every penny will go to community. I do remember that SMISA would take on suggestions from the club and members to propose spend options. From where I'm standing that's exactly what has happened. It's been well discussed previously and complaints have been quashed that the club or SMISA are doing something wrong in regards to proposals or spend. The bottomline from what I can see is, more paying members want to benefit their football club first and foremost. For me, if it's mutually beneficial to the wider community great and I fully support charity work and involvement from SMISA and St Mirren. If St Mirren want the money for something that will always be my priority. I donate my money to better my club. I give money to charity and have supported community projects in the past but this £25 from my pocket, it's for St Mirren.  

£8k is small beans for a football club but yes it can make a big difference. Would I like to see that difference for the betterment of my club? Yes. I know and a lot of people know your feelings but i think there's a few home truths you have to accept.

1. Majority of fans are happy with the way this is working currently

2. Majority of fans seem more concerned with putting St Mirren first and foremost in this deal

3. Majority of fans may just be happy to see this money help with bills around the club so those funds can be diverted elsewhere

4. There is nothing illegal, immoral or underhanded about the way SMISA pick suggestions and democratically get agreeance. 

I base all the above on the previous votes + the people that continue to pay but don't seem interested in the vote, which is absolutely fine. The bulk of the £12/£25 id far more important.

Taking into account all those things i would love to see the fans that just feel we should be spending every single penny on community or projects they want, to accept that in a democracy sometimes things won't always go your way. 

You could have saved yourself a pile of typing if you had just read the second line of my post you quote "totally respect the members vote".

the issue for me is not what the options are, but the chairman spitting his dummy out to try and bully members into giving him their funds. He greatly belittled himself by doing this, regardless of what he felt.  

The members may have voted against it anyway, but by him going public and attacking smisa he makes himself look weak and insecure. When you say 'the majority of fans' do you mean Smisa members or the general support? I ask because only 800 odd, out of 1300 smisa members responded to the survey, and given the range of options coming from that i dont see how you can say there was a majority of 'members' in favour of any of the options.

who said every penny should go to the community? 

Where in the Buy the Buds campaign does it say every penny will go to the club?

 

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I cannot imagine 1000 supporters continuing to "invest" £12 per month once the Buds is Bought.

Over the current term of 10 years, £1440 is not a paltry investment for hee haw in return other than rubber stamping the paying of some shopping lists of the club (which, imho, should be budgeted for by the club)

So, back to where will the club get the finances to pay for x, y & z that it is currently going to SMISA to pay for.



It's affordable for many. Am sure Smisa can consult in advance to weigh up what people think as a whole versus what at this stage is just one person's opinion. It shouldn't stop ideas for new finance streams it would though be a valuable complement.



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Save it is very very clearly on the options. Just vote no. I would seriously worry about any adult not understanding the very simple instructions. 


Vote no & the money gets saved. Right?
Till when??

Carry over till the next vote?
Carry over till a vote of choice?
Carry over until the Buds is Bought?

The "saving it" option has not actually been defined, so, unfortunately bud, it really isn't that simple.

I'm an advocate for saving some/most of the pot for big ticket items or for when the club is in fan ownership (buds is bought rather than a majority shareholder being a fan) than spunk it every 3 months on a little bit of this & a little bit of that.

Match quality footballs for a full time professional football club to train with. FFS. Do me a favour

Next we'll have the printing of the numbers on the 1st team shirts.
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2 hours ago, Graeme Aitken said:

 


Vote no & the money gets saved. Right?
Till when??

Carry over till the next vote?
Carry over till a vote of choice?
Carry over until the Buds is Bought?

The "saving it" option has not actually been defined, so, unfortunately bud, it really isn't that simple.

I'm an advocate for saving some/most of the pot for big ticket items or for when the club is in fan ownership (buds is bought rather than a majority shareholder being a fan) than spunk it every 3 months on a little bit of this & a little bit of that.

Match quality footballs for a full time professional football club to train with. FFS. Do me a favour

Next we'll have the printing of the numbers on the 1st team shirts.

To save it is not and never has been an option, the options are spend it all every quarter or don't spend then spend it next quarter or next again, to save it a majority of members would have to vote no to every option right up until we buy the controlling shares. You will not find all of that written down anywhere but the controlling majority on the SMiSA board have stated that it is for spending every quarter, they do not want to save it, they had a new line put into the constitution which roughly states they will assist the club in any way they can and that line will be used to spend money even if we vote to not spend any more. I have not heard of the new constitution being approved by supporters direct or the finance body as yet, it may have been but i certainly have not had any contact from the SMiSA board to say it has.

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To save it is not and never has been an option, the options are spend it all every quarter or don't spend then spend it next quarter or next again, to save it a majority of members would have to vote no to every option right up until we buy the controlling shares. You will not find all of that written down anywhere but the controlling majority on the SMiSA board have stated that it is for spending every quarter, they do not want to save it, they had a new line put into the constitution which roughly states they will assist the club in any way they can and that line will be used to spend money even if we vote to not spend any more. I have not heard of the new constitution being approved by supporters direct or the finance body as yet, it may have been but i certainly have not had any contact from the SMiSA board to say it has.


I did suggest previously, that a " save it" option was added to each quarterly vote.

That got added to 1 vote only.

I find it kind of ludicrous that the £2 discretionary spending pot has most definately become the St Mirren FC slush fund.

Made even more ludicrous by club requests for money to buy items that should be the sole responsibility of the club to fund itself ( how many times can i say " match quality training balls for the 1st team. FFS")

I understand the argument others put across about the betterment of the club. I just don't agree that the club should go cap in hand to SMISA for items it should be budgetting for or when it has recently brought in Xxx in transfer fees or if there is any freeloading going on (even to the tune of 1 sausage roll).

Hope that last bit was just a bit of mischief making by the OP suggesting freeloading.




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