Jack Talks Tactics

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Part One;

 

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Part Two;

 

[linwood buddie]

Hope Saturdays tactic was't "If they score four we will score five".

[ged62]

Hope Saturdays tactic was't "If they score four we will score five".

Get over it [emoji6]

[linwood buddie]

17 minutes ago, ged62 said:

Get over it

Over what ? A big fence?

[DougJamie]

35 minutes ago, linwood buddie said:

Hope Saturdays tactic was't "If they score four we will score five".

Trying to find a football team for you that doesn't lose football matches

 

Give me a year, I am sure there is one out there

[East Lothian Saint]

Some interesting comments about John Sutton. He is taking on board the criticisms made by JS fans and eluding they may even be right but I suspect the Hippolyte will be our new JS and when necessary hopefully he will do the job JS used to do. Not sure personally if JS is still up to that task.

Hoping Hyppolyte will be Myles better.

[Lord Pityme]

3 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

Some interesting comments about John Sutton. He is taking on board the criticisms made by JS fans and eluding they may even be right but I suspect the Hippolyte will be our new JS and when necessary hopefully he will do the job JS used to do. Not sure personally if JS is still up to that task.

Hoping Hyppolyte will be Myles better.

Talking today to a opposition scout for another championship club who predicted last week exactly how (and we all knew this) livvy would go route one and try to bully the opposition off the ball. He was amazed firstly that JS didnt get a start, or indeed that JS and Hippo weren't deployed together to boss their backline.

he also let slip his club would have JS in a heartbeat! With Ross now admitting he called it wrong (mind elsewhere) with set up and tactics, does it still make you a negative, agenda driven fan to point the same feckin stuff out?

[linwood buddie]

44 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Trying to find a football team for you that doesn't lose football matches

 

Give me a year, I am sure there is one out there

Don't bother my interest won't hold that long.

[linwood buddie]

Just now, linwood buddie said:

Don't bother my interest won't hold that long.

What was the post again?

[DougJamie]

32 minutes ago, linwood buddie said:

What was the post again?

World Peace ?

[East Lothian Saint]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Talking today to a opposition scout for another championship club who predicted last week exactly how (and we all knew this) livvy would go route one and try to bully the opposition off the ball. He was amazed firstly that JS didnt get a start, or indeed that JS and Hippo weren't deployed together to boss their backline.

he also let slip his club would have JS in a heartbeat! With Ross now admitting he called it wrong (mind elsewhere) with set up and tactics, does it still make you a negative, agenda driven fan to point the same feckin stuff out?

It's all about opinions. Agenda's and negativity are two different animals.  

I haven't watched the second video yet but Jack appears to favour a style whereby a player like Sutton who thrives on route one style balls into the box is not part of the plan. He wants players who move the ball about and create goals from the 17 yard area not the 6 yard area.  That style of play just doesn't suit JS. When he tries to control the ball and hold it up in these situations he generally falls on his arse and achieves nothing. The only goal he scored, which was a cracker, was the one at Dumbarton where he seemed to jump miles above everyone to head it in from 6 yards.  He doesn't have the pace and it doesn't suit his style to run onto balls on the edge of the box and smash them in the way the way Morgan, Reilly and Smith, etc do. 

The big problem as everyone can see is Plan B.  I think it was Mark Whartburton who was ridiculed for saying Plan B is to do Plan A better.  Gordon Strachan was criticised for saying our players are too wee. Jack I think is a Do Plan A better type guy who believes in his wee players. On some occassions Jack has shown how  our wee team can destroy bigger stronger teams like ICT and Falkirk and give them a good humping but if that team has any kind of ability and Gile, we can't cope. Livi and Dundee Utd away being the prime examples. Both these teams used phyisical, psychological and rule bending tactics to stop us playing. Kyle Magennis is up for a good scrap but i'm not sure who else is.

While John Sutton has something to offer to other teams he doesn't fit our style and isn't that good at the role he's been given. Playing for another team he would probably turn into a Ryan Hardie and score two against us every week though, so for that reason let's just keep him. Jack picked Hypollitte to play his system hopefully he'll be better suited to it than John who has been a great servant to the club but I think his time has come to an end.

Our wee team should see this out but we might need to bulk up a bit for next season. Then again Spain were a bunch of wee guys when they won the world cup so maybe that's what Fitzy was thinking when he said we'd win the Premiership next year

[linwood buddie]

45 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

World Peace ?

Oh right ,"Right On"

[santaponsasaint]

got tactics well wrong Sat. But JR knew that himself. McKenzie should have played from the start. But easy for us to say that now. Coys

[DougJamie]

24 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

It's all about opinions. Agenda's and negativity are two different animals.  

I haven't watched the second video yet but Jack appears to favour a style whereby a player like Sutton who thrives on route one style balls into the box is not part of the plan. He wants players who move the ball about and create goals from the 17 yard area not the 6 yard area.  That style of play just doesn't suit JS. When he tries to control the ball and hold it up in these situations he generally falls on his arse and achieves nothing. The only goal he scored, which was a cracker, was the one at Dumbarton where he seemed to jump miles above everyone to head it in from 6 yards.  He doesn't have the pace and it doesn't suit his style to run onto balls on the edge of the box and smash them in the way the way Morgan, Reilly and Smith, etc do. 

The big problem as everyone can see is Plan B.  I think it was Mark Whartburton who was ridiculed for saying Plan B is to do Plan A better.  Gordon Strachan was criticised for saying our players are too wee. Jack I think is a Do Plan A better type guy who believes in his wee players. On some occassions Jack has shown how  our wee team can destroy bigger stronger teams like ICT and Falkirk and give them a good humping but if that team has any kind of ability and Gile, we can't cope. Livi and Dundee Utd away being the prime examples. Both these teams used phyisical, psychological and rule bending tactics to stop us playing. Kyle Magennis is up for a good scrap but i'm not sure who else is.

While John Sutton has something to offer to other teams he doesn't fit our style and isn't that good at the role he's been given. Playing for another team he would probably turn into a Ryan Hardie and score two against us every week though, so for that reason let's just keep him. Jack picked Hypollitte to play his system hopefully he'll be better suited to it than John who has been a great servant to the club but I think his time has come to an end.

Our wee team should see this out but we might need to bulk up a bit for next season. Then again Spain were a bunch of wee guys when they won the world cup so maybe that's what Fitzy was thinking when he said we'd win the Premiership next year

Lots of really good points, and I agree on the way Jack sees the game. I also agree we need to bulk up, mainly to keep the ball. Against Dons it was obvious it was more a head to head in the first 45, we have pace and skill, I bet in training we look a fantastic outfit.

So its not just about height , its about weight- Cue Maradona, Messi and Neymar..............

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by DougJamie

[melmac]

It was not so much the tactics on Saturday, it was the players inability on what to do with tough challenges, high balls etc. The balls into the box from the throw ins, Sammy should be taking them all day long but everyone shat their pants; stand someone right on the side line at the thrower; put men either side of the target man / stand on his foot before the throws taken; its not feckin rocket science.

As for Morgan, bar his back heel against Dunfermline, missing in action since his move.

[Lord Pityme]

19 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

It's all about opinions. Agenda's and negativity are two different animals.  

I haven't watched the second video yet but Jack appears to favour a style whereby a player like Sutton who thrives on route one style balls into the box is not part of the plan. He wants players who move the ball about and create goals from the 17 yard area not the 6 yard area.  That style of play just doesn't suit JS. When he tries to control the ball and hold it up in these situations he generally falls on his arse and achieves nothing. The only goal he scored, which was a cracker, was the one at Dumbarton where he seemed to jump miles above everyone to head it in from 6 yards.  He doesn't have the pace and it doesn't suit his style to run onto balls on the edge of the box and smash them in the way the way Morgan, Reilly and Smith, etc do. 

The big problem as everyone can see is Plan B.  I think it was Mark Whartburton who was ridiculed for saying Plan B is to do Plan A better.  Gordon Strachan was criticised for saying our players are too wee. Jack I think is a Do Plan A better type guy who believes in his wee players. On some occassions Jack has shown how  our wee team can destroy bigger stronger teams like ICT and Falkirk and give them a good humping but if that team has any kind of ability and Gile, we can't cope. Livi and Dundee Utd away being the prime examples. Both these teams used phyisical, psychological and rule bending tactics to stop us playing. Kyle Magennis is up for a good scrap but i'm not sure who else is.

While John Sutton has something to offer to other teams he doesn't fit our style and isn't that good at the role he's been given. Playing for another team he would probably turn into a Ryan Hardie and score two against us every week though, so for that reason let's just keep him. Jack picked Hypollitte to play his system hopefully he'll be better suited to it than John who has been a great servant to the club but I think his time has come to an end.

Our wee team should see this out but we might need to bulk up a bit for next season. Then again Spain were a bunch of wee guys when they won the world cup so maybe that's what Fitzy was thinking when he said we'd win the Premiership next year

Agree with a fair bit of what you say. But, turning it on its head, does anyone think we were set up right to play Livi, and that we adapted/responded as quick as we could when they were rampaging through us..?

We could have started with JS and Hippo knowing their backs were going for the throat, we could have had the fullbacks doubling up to help the centres and we could have brought on Reilly, C Smith or Mullan to change it, and make them run around more.  

If i've seen it, and youve seen it, and most everyone else has seen us undone against Livi, Utd, Morton & Dunfermline, and squeaked it against lowly Brechin who play the same way. Then why doesnt the manager trust the talent he has in the squad and adapt his team to beat the opposition? 

Until we get to a mathematical title clinching position, we need to win whatever way it takes. Get the points on the board, make other teams uncomfortable knowing we can switch around. The style that suits, is the one that gets the job done! If youve got a dirty big sledgehammer in the tool shed, you use that to smash a rock, not a shiny new ball pin hammer because its your favourite!

[DougJamie]

8 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Agree with a fair bit of what you say. But, turning it on its head, does anyone think we were set up right to play Livi, and that we adapted/responded as quick as we could when they were rampaging through us..?

We could have started with JS and Hippo knowing their backs were going for the throat, we could have had the fullbacks doubling up to help the centres and we could have brought on Reilly, C Smith or Mullan to change it, and make them run around more.  

If i've seen it, and youve seen it, and most everyone else has seen us undone against Livi, Utd, Morton & Dunfermline, and squeaked it against lowly Brechin who play the same way. Then why doesnt the manager trust the talent he has in the squad and adapt his team to beat the opposition? 

Until we get to a mathematical title clinching position, we need to win whatever way it takes. Get the points on the board, make other teams uncomfortable knowing we can switch around. The style that suits, is the one that gets the job done! If youve got a dirty big sledgehammer in the tool shed, you use that to smash a rock, not a shiny new ball pin hammer because its your favourite!

Where you considering applying for Jack's job if he had left?

Jack has a 68% Win percentage this season,  Livi have 50%. Utd 53%, and  Pars and Morton 37%,

The winners of any league is about the whole season, and so far Jack is miles ahead on tactics, and I have also seen a few win ugly games this season

 

[East Lothian Saint]

23 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Agree with a fair bit of what you say. But, turning it on its head, does anyone think we were set up right to play Livi, and that we adapted/responded as quick as we could when they were rampaging through us..?

We could have started with JS and Hippo knowing their backs were going for the throat, we could have had the fullbacks doubling up to help the centres and we could have brought on Reilly, C Smith or Mullan to change it, and make them run around more.  

If i've seen it, and youve seen it, and most everyone else has seen us undone against Livi, Utd, Morton & Dunfermline, and squeaked it against lowly Brechin who play the same way. Then why doesnt the manager trust the talent he has in the squad and adapt his team to beat the opposition? 

Until we get to a mathematical title clinching position, we need to win whatever way it takes. Get the points on the board, make other teams uncomfortable knowing we can switch around. The style that suits, is the one that gets the job done! If youve got a dirty big sledgehammer in the tool shed, you use that to smash a rock, not a shiny new ball pin hammer because its your favourite!

I do take your point and it's always easy with hindsight. When I saw the team sheet before the game I was happy that was our strongest possible team. I never really gave much concern to how livvy would play.

What was worrying was your right about the ability to adapt and respond. Jack did change things moving up the full backs and Bringing McKenzie on was a reaction but it never worked.

I'm not a big Mullen fan but as it was his former team and he was as adept at winning free kicks as his livvy buddies I was hoping he might have given us some edge but he didn't. Not sure what Jack sees in Mullen. Maybe Hyppolite playing upfront with Reilly will have a better impact.

When Hyppolite came on again it was a response and even Gary Mack Moving up was an attempt to do something but nothing really worked and the fourth goal being so Bizarre didn't look too clever either.

He's still learning and says himself that that he learns more from defeat than victory. Lets just hope he doesn't learn enough to stop us winning the league

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by East Lothian Saint
adapting and responding to typo's

[East Lothian Saint]

7 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Where you considering applying for Jack's job if he had left?

Jack has a 68% Win percentage this season,  Livi have 50%. Utd 53%, and  Pars and Morton 37%,

The winners of any league is about the whole season, and so far Jack is miles ahead on tactics, and I have also seen a few win ugly games this season

 

A 68% win rate is phenomenal. Not many managers outside the Old Firm achieve those levels. Hope he can keep it going next season.

[linwood buddie]

Livi used the Dunfermline game againstus for their tactics I think , they would have noted how we struggled against that big M'voto  IMO. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by linwood buddie

[DougJamie]

52 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

A 68% win rate is phenomenal. Not many managers outside the Old Firm achieve those levels. Hope he can keep it going next season.

Mate even if he dropped to say 60% that's still 22 wins, add 5 draws that's 71 points, which is what Hibs went up on last year............. Assuming last 11 games we win 5 lose 5 and draw 1 

To put this into context and why Saints and 10-1 on at some bookies

For Livi to get to 71 points they need 28/36 points available or 9 wins and a  draw from last 12 games............ Livi have won only 50% of their games, they would have to increase that to 75%

United need 31/ 42 Or 10 wins and a draw out their last 14...............  United have won 53% of their games they would have to increase that to 72% in their last 14........... Remembering that one of them or both if they draw will be further out the equation if/ when they drop points.............

We really should beat Brechin and if we do, and Livi or United drop points watch our odds get even shorter................

 

 

 

[Soctty]

42 minutes ago, linwood buddie said:

Livi used the Dunfermline game againstus for their tactics I think , they would have noted how we struggled against that big M'voto  IMO. 

I think that if we hadn't had a balls up between Jack and Sammy for their first, the second and third may well not have come, as that one moment shifted momentum completely. It made both players nervy, which seemed to spread to Davis as well uncharacteristically.

If we were that easy to play against, every team would be doing it. Livingston have tried to bully us a few times this season - this is the first time their tactics have borne fruit in the league against us.

All our attention should now be on Brechin on Saturday, and winning that. If we do that, the picture will look rosier again, given our nearest rivals are playing each night before, which may or may not take some pressure off us depending on the outcome of that one.

[Soctty]

Interesting to hear Jack talk of the possible need to alter our tactics going into next season if we go up, as we are likely see less of the ball than we do now. It's that kind of thinking that will take him far in the game. Also his refusal to be tied down to a "philosophy", which takes pressure off him and makes it easier to change the approach if needed. Clearly his preference is for his teams to get the ball forward quickly, and make the most of the time spent in the final thirds. Very interesting interview.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Soctty

[Drew]

1 hour ago, linwood buddie said:

Livi used the Dunfermline game againstus for their tactics I think , they would have noted how we struggled against that big M'voto  IMO. 

I was saying on Saturday during the game that I expect us to see a good few teams matching up against us in the weeks to come employing similar tactics.

Jack will know the score. I reckon a few people have written off John Sutton's potential contribution a little prematurely....