faraway saint Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 A 78 year old man stabbed a burglar who later died defending his home and wife in London. He's was arrested on suspicion of murder and has been bailed. Reasonable Force is described as: protect yourself ‘in the heat of the moment’ - this includes using an object as a weapon stop an intruder running off - eg tackle them to the ground There’s no specific definition of ‘reasonable force’ - it depends on the circumstances. If you only did what you honestly thought was necessary at the time, this would provide strong evidence that you acted within the law. I say unlucky on the burglar, he'll not be stealing from people in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LargsBud Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 I read the burglar came in armed with a screwdriver then got the screwdriver turned on him. If that's the case that he came in with a weapon then got his own weapon turned on him then there is absolutely no case for the guy to get charged with anything let alone murder imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Lothian Saint Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) Force used has to be proportional to the threat. If he punched the guy, knocked him down, picked up the screwdriver and then stabbed him that is not proportional. He had the upper hand and took advantage. If the guy was trying to stab him and he managed to turn the weapon on the guy and had no other option but to stab him to stop being stabbed himself then that is proportional and reasonable. stabbing burglars is not deemed reasonable under law unless they are trying to kill you. No idea what happened in this case, so can't comment on if it was proportionate or not. Edited April 5, 2018 by East Lothian Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Anybody who breaks into peoples property to steal deserve to die. Good on the old guy.Instead of charging him they should be giving him a medal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, HSS said: Anybody who breaks into peoples property to steal deserve to die. Good on the old guy.Instead of charging him they should be giving him a medal. It will be a brave man that goes at him with the pin of a medal..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Good................... saved us a fortune in taxes, jail space and therapy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 The old boy certainly screwed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomboomyards Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 It would be ironic if the old guys name was Phillips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 So a 78 year old man gets burgled and attacked in his own home by two men (one of whom is less than half his age ) In the ensuing struggle as the man fights to protect himself and his possesions the scummy bastard who broke in apparantly gets stabbed by his own weapon and dies. Give the old guy a f**kin Medal. One less oxygen thief to worry about . I have no sympathy at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Callum Gilhooley said: So a 78 year old man gets burgled and attacked in his own home by two men (one of whom is less than half his age ) In the ensuing struggle as the man fights to protect himself and his possesions the scummy bastard who broke in apparantly gets stabbed by his own weapon and dies. Give the old guy a f**kin Medal. One less oxygen thief to worry about . I have no sympathy at all. He has infringed the burglars rights probably. I am sure there will be some EU/ Human Rights law that will entitle the scums family to millions in compensation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just now, DougJamie said: He has infringed the burglars rights probably. I am sure there will be some EU/ Human Rights law that will entitle the scums family to millions in compensation Cue the candlelit Vigil and local florists coining it in as tributes pile up on the pavement outside for the "really nice guy who was everyones friend !" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted April 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 So, glad to say, the consensus is the 78 year old is totally innocent of a crime and the scum that got it deserved all he got. I'm easily in the "I'd do the same" boat, and piss on him as he lay bleeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, faraway saint said: So, glad to say, the consensus is the 78 year old is totally innocent of a crime and the scum that got it deserved all he got. I'm easily in the "I'd do the same" boat, and piss on him as he lay bleeding. Agree but I would set fire to him then piss on him, saving the tax payer money on burying the waste of space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Lothian Saint Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, DougJamie said: Agree but I would set fire to him then piss on him, saving the tax payer money on burying the waste of space Feck that's the house insurance quotes going up. Cost of clearing up the Housebreaking was bad enough but now everyone's setting fire to their carpets and pissing on them the premiums definitely going up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just now, East Lothian Saint said: Feck that's the house insurance quotes going up. Cost of clearing up the Housebreaking was bad enough but now everyone's setting fire to their carpets and pissing on them the premiums definitely going up. Would it help if I dragged him out to the bottom of the garden, then set fire to him, maybe scatter the ashes on the roses ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Lothian Saint Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, DougJamie said: Would it help if I dragged him out to the bottom of the garden, then set fire to him, maybe scatter the ashes on the roses ? Much better. There is the question of Reasonable force though. A character reference from Alan Titchmarch or Charlie Dimmock confirming dead burglar is good for the roses would swing it in your favour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, faraway saint said: So, glad to say, the consensus is the 78 year old is totally innocent of a crime and the scum that got it deserved all he got. I'm easily in the "I'd do the same" boat, and piss on him as he lay bleeding. I think he died outside in the street so the cops would likely charged the auld guy for public indecency if he did that Doubt there is a jury in the country that would find him guilty and I would expect the charge to be withdrawn soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 39 minutes ago, renfrew said: I think he died outside in the street so the cops would likely charged the auld guy for public indecency if he did that Doubt there is a jury in the country that would find him guilty and I would expect the charge to be withdrawn soon. Tony Martin probably thought that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornwall_Saint Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 If someone is thick enough and nasty enough to break into your house, they deserve whatever injuries they get. I've got a family to protect, I'll do whatever is necessary if an incident happens, and would feel no guilt if I killed the thief. Good on the 78yo man, he did what was right to protect what was his. f**k the thiefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 42 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Tony Martin probably thought that as well. Maybe he did but Martin shot someone who was outside his house which is different from killing someone inside with the weapon that they brought with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 2 hours ago, East Lothian Saint said: Force used has to be proportional to the threat. If he punched the guy, knocked him down, picked up the screwdriver and then stabbed him that is not proportional. He had the upper hand and took advantage. If the guy was trying to stab him and he managed to turn the weapon on the guy and had no other option but to stab him to stop being stabbed himself then that is proportional and reasonable. stabbing burglars is not deemed reasonable under law unless they are trying to kill you. No idea what happened in this case, so can't comment on if it was proportionate or not. The voice of sanity. On the surface it sounds like the old guy is innocent but we don't know all the facts yet. From the photos I've seen of the old guy mind you, he looks like a cunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 58 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Tony Martin probably thought that as well. The law has changed since Tony Martin was convicted. . It’s believed the Tony Martin and other similar cases played a role in the 2012 law to give extra legal protection to householders who attack burglars. The Criminal Law (Defence and Dwelling) Act 2011 allows for a person to use reasonable force in defending their home in order to protect themselves and their property. The Act says that a person is not obligated to retreat from their home if there is an intruder. Tony Martin welcomed the law, saying people should not “live in fear in their home”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorizaar Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 If you kill someone, you will be arrested and questioned. There is nothing wrong with what happened to the old man. Facts need to be established. Surely people don't expect him to get a pat on the back and sent back to bed as if nothing happened? As far as I'm aware, he was arrested then released and hasn't been charged. All seems pretty normal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Could the screwdriver have been used on the lock Was it turned on the burglar or had he left it down and got surprised by the old guyWhen did we declare burglary a capital crime in the UKA lot of non law breakers on this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Lothian Saint Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 28 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said: The law has changed since Tony Martin was convicted. . It’s believed the Tony Martin and other similar cases played a role in the 2012 law to give extra legal protection to householders who attack burglars. The Criminal Law (Defence and Dwelling) Act 2011 allows for a person to use reasonable force in defending their home in order to protect themselves and their property. The Act says that a person is not obligated to retreat from their home if there is an intruder. Tony Martin welcomed the law, saying people should not “live in fear in their home”. I think what you're Quoting is Irish Law as in not Scottish or English law. It doesn't apply here only the Irish Statute books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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