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Protect The Asset Lock


Lord Pityme

Ring Fenced Means Ring Fenced  

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13 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Ha,ha,ha....

 Smisa committee minutes for all to see... oh lok there's a unicorn.

Not the most constructive way of putting it across Tony, but yeah. Of course, there should actually be a book of minutes that the members can freely gain access to. The upkeep of which is the responsibility of the societies secretary.

13 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

I am not a SMISA member. If I were to join then I would hope that SMISA business would be open to SMISA members to discuss face to face in meetings or through member's only access Forums and E Mails.  Perhaps with opportunities for non members to put forward ideas through a suggestions page on the website. Non members could be invited to information events. Dealing with items on a public forum doesn't seem quite right to me although I would have no great objections to having the minutes of meetings shown on the website in order to maintain transparency. Just my thoughts. Don't shoot me for them. We all want the best for our club.

As for the above, they've no intention to have a members only forum and would prefer this section of B&W Army was removed. 

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On 4/8/2018 at 11:13 PM, davidg said:

The ones who like to be heard, a bit like the yes campaign (I voted yes btw). 

Convinced they are the majority because they're shouting loudest. 

I think you described part of the process of campaigning.

 

You make your view known, you persist for a period of time and you either get a result or you get ignored.   That sort of behaviour should be banned, eh?

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2 hours ago, TsuMirren said:

Not the most constructive way of putting it across Tony, but yeah. Of course, there should actually be a book of minutes that the members can freely gain access to. The upkeep of which is the responsibility of the societies secretary.

As for the above, they've no intention to have a members only forum and would prefer this section of B&W Army was removed. 

Then I fear on both counts that I will never be a member. Both would be required. I would add a third.

1 Access to minutes would be a minimum requirement.

2 A members only forum is such a no brainer in this day and age .

3 Members should have the right to attend meetings of the governing body as observers. 

In their abscence I can see an absolute need for this section to be on the B and W Forum.

Edited by St.Ricky
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1 minute ago, St.Ricky said:

Then I fear on both counts that I will never be a member. Both would be required. I would add a third.

1 Access to minutes would be a minimum requirement.

2 A members only forum is such a no brainer in this day and age .

3 Members should have the right to attend meetings of the governing body as observers. 

In their abscence I can see an absolute need for this section to be on the B and W Forum. 

Ah, you can attend...every 2nd Monday from 6PM in the UWS hub. I think we had one member come along and ask a question. You could also argue that the non-elected committee members count in that regard. Most of them have now been elected, with only David Riley and Louise Swanson not having been in the election. Plus I suppose John, but he's an SLO anyway. 

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4 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Then I fear on both counts that I will never be a member. Both would be required. I would add a third.

1 Access to minutes would be a minimum requirement.

2 A members only forum is such a no brainer in this day and age .

3 Members should have the right to attend meetings of the governing body as observers. 

In their abscence I can see an absolute need for this section to be on the B and W Forum. 

The above are the sort of arrangements, or equivalent thereof, that you would see in a well run golf or bowling club.  i don't understand why SMISA members cant have that experience,

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16 minutes ago, TsuMirren said:

Ah, you can attend...every 2nd Monday from 6PM in the UWS hub. I think we had one member come along and ask a question. You could also argue that the non-elected committee members count in that regard. Most of them have now been elected, with only David Riley and Louise Swanson not having been in the election. Plus I suppose John, but he's an SLO anyway. 

Thanks for making it clear that members can attend committee meetings and where and when they are held. I take it these are prenotified on this forum? That would be very valuable .

By non elected committee members I assume you mean members who have been coopted by the committee and who are this de facto committee members at least until they are obliged to offer themselves for election at the next AGM or EGM?

What is the position regarding non members? 

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27 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Thanks for making it clear that members can attend committee meetings and where and when they are held. I take it these are prenotified on this forum? That would be very valuable .

By non elected committee members I assume you mean members who have been coopted by the committee and who are this de facto committee members at least until they are obliged to offer themselves for election at the next AGM or EGM?

What is the position regarding non members? 

Nah, never mentioned here.

Right,  there is a board made up of elected members and they also form part of the committee. I've no idea why SMISA keep saying committee, there's a board and non-elected members sitting on the committee shouldn't be voting at meetings. They've no obligation really, but obviously being on the committee gives you a flavour. The board could have various committees working underneath, but at the moment there's only one.

Non-members can't hold any sort of position, obviously they can attend sessions at the pubs...but, who goes to a pub pre-match to discuss SMISA? Even when I was on the board and still a member I think I had maybe 7 people ask me a question. I even recall chatting to yourself in the bar, but that was prior to being elected. I had interaction on twitter, but again twitter bad/email good!

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1 minute ago, TsuMirren said:

Nah, never mentioned here.

Right,  there is a board made up of elected members and they also form part of the committee. I've no idea why SMISA keep saying committee, there's a board and non-elected members sitting on the committee shouldn't be voting at meetings. They've no obligation really, but obviously being on the committee gives you a flavour. The board could have various committees working underneath, but at the moment there's only one.

Non-members can't hold any sort of position, obviously they can attend sessions at the pubs...but, who goes to a pub pre-match to discuss SMISA? Even when I was on the board and still a member I think I had maybe 7 people ask me a question. I even recall chatting to yourself in the bar, but that was prior to being elected. I had interaction on twitter, but again twitter bad/email good!

Thanks Tsu. Yes you did.

So the structure is:

Board

Made up only of Elected Members

Only they can vote.

Then

Committee or Committees

A mix of Elected Members from the Board + Non Elected Co-opted Members.

Their recommendations would need to be voted on by Directors.

Non Members

No specific arrangements but can approach a Board Member or Committee Member or Perhaps attend the Meetings at UWS Hub held each 2 weeks.

As you say - and would be normal - non members cannot hold positions.

I have no interest in seeking office but there would need to be a move to create greater transparency and improved use of the suggested forum, e mail, slack or whatever systems are appropriate to enable members to become fully involved before I would join. Until then, I can't see me parting with the money on governance grounds. 

From experience I know the types of things being raised here are not unusual. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be brought up.

By the way .................. none of this is meant as any form of personal criticism of those giving their time to SMISA

The opposite - I appreciate what they have done - this is about how and what they do in the future.

End of.

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3 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Who do the SMiSA committee represent these days - GLS or the their members?

It all seems way too cosy between the sausage roll munchers at SMiSA and the current Chairman - glad it's not my hard earned they're playing with

 

We all have the same goal, the continual running and growth of St Mirren football club. What wouldn't they have a 'cosy' relationship. The number of people that see it as us and them is really staggering. 

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

We all have the same goal, the continual running and growth of St Mirren football club. What wouldn't they have a 'cosy' relationship. The number of people that see it as us and them is really staggering. 

There's cosy and then there's allowing the club to run/direct the society. The club has a Fans Council, which could easily fundraise and be used to drive covering essentials or whole life cost funding. "As they see fit..." spending shouldn't be at the behest of what the club do or do not want to run with. That said, SMISA also need to be a damned sight more pro-active, which I quite frankly never see them doing. I say that, having offered to run elements of certain things and been all but ignored because two or three people didn't see the need or the point. 

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7 minutes ago, TsuMirren said:

There's cosy and then there's allowing the club to run/direct the society. The club has a Fans Council, which could easily fundraise and be used to drive covering essentials or whole life cost funding. "As they see fit..." spending shouldn't be at the behest of what the club do or do not want to run with. That said, SMISA also need to be a damned sight more pro-active, which I quite frankly never see them doing. I say that, having offered to run elements of certain things and been all but ignored because two or three people didn't see the need or the point. 

Nope you're right, it should be at the will of the majority of members. Voting has shown the majority of members seem to favor mutual club/ community or club only benefits. 

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2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

We all have the same goal, the continual running and growth of St Mirren football club. What wouldn't they have a 'cosy' relationship. The number of people that see it as us and them is really staggering. 

There's cosy and then there's being in GLS's pocket - like I said I'm glad it's not my hard earned.

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

Nope you're right, it should be at the will of the majority of members. Voting has shown the majority of members seem to favor mutual club/ community or club only benefits. 

But, that will is only being actioned upon pre-determined options with very little prior input from the membership. So, it's not really as they see fit is it.

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19 minutes ago, TsuMirren said:

But, that will is only being actioned upon pre-determined options with very little prior input from the membership. So, it's not really as they see fit is it.

The membership did have input, their input was to vote the proposal through. I voted no however respect that the majority had a different opinion on it. That's called having a democracy.

Businesses are run on pre-determined decisions. A business run by committee is a business that will fail.

Also as far as I'm aware the members have the right to make a proposal to the committee for future votes. 

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1 hour ago, TsuMirren said:

But, that will is only being actioned upon pre-determined options with very little prior input from the membership. So, it's not really as they see fit is it.

There has been previous votes with varied options and we continually see that options that benefit the club are generally the best supported. This vote was possibly the most one sided we’ve had so far based on casted votes. 

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Guest TPAFKATS



The membership did have input, their input was to vote the proposal through. I voted no however respect that the majority had a different opinion on it. That's called having a democracy.
Businesses are run on pre-determined decisions. A business run by committee is a business that will fail.
Also as far as I'm aware the members have the right to make a proposal to the committee for future votes. 

'A business run by committee is a business that will fail.'
And there's the fan ownership model that St. Mirren can look forward to?
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On ‎15‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 7:42 PM, Lord Pityme said:

Apparently according to the club chairman we are just " idiots on a forum".... ooooooh is that gonna comeback and take a huge chunk out his ass...

is he wrong though (if he did say it)? Have you read  some of the tantrums.

 

Edited by Graeme Aitken
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5 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Do we all post daft/idiotic stuff at times- aye. Should he be referring to sections of the support who hold him and the org we are members of (smisa) to account..? Naw..!

Where was this said by the way? Is there a transcript or can anyone give us a bit of context? 

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