zico Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 When nature calls Zico. In the last minute of the most important game of the season?[emoji23] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted May 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 30 minutes ago, zico said: In the last minute of the most important game of the season? Maybe even more likely then than ever Zico... Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 (edited) Hold on lets just look in the trophy cabinet. Oh its Jack Edited May 20, 2018 by DougJamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuD Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 (edited) Hopkin has achieved more now. Surely there's no question about that. Two promotions and one relegation in three seasons, trumps one promotion and one relegation in three seasons - and that's before you factor in the respective sizes of the wage budgets available to each manager. Edited May 20, 2018 by StuD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 I don't think there is any mileage in trying to work out which of them is best. Both have had a tremendous effect in turning their clubs around. Relative finances are irrelevant. Both transformed the attitudes at their clubs and both are in the Premiership. Pretty sure neither of them gives a shit about anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 Happy if Jack goes and Hopkin comes in. He has proved he can build a side on a small budget who can win against bigger sides us included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuD Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Pretty sure neither of them gives a shit about anything else. True, but its pretty important when it comes to another club looking at who they should look to recruit. Ross turned over a football team operating with a decent wage budget and with some transfer cash. Many of his signings have been flops, but some of them have worked extremely well and St Mirren have been relatively pleasing on the eye as a result. For many in the St Mirren squad this season looked easy. Players didn't look like they were having to push themselves much to get results, indeed some of the performances after January looked really lethargic having got in front. Hopkin has got a far more unfashionable side, with a much smaller average home gate to the Premiership whilst showing a great deal more tactical pragmatism. He even lost one of his top goalscorers - Danny Mullen - to St Mirren and had to replace him with Jack Ross reject Ryan Hardie, and to most with eyes in their head watching on it looked like Hopkin had done the better bit of business. Edited May 20, 2018 by StuD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 For once i will agree with Stu Dickson We are now where we should be in my eyes Livy shouldn't but now are They outplayed Thistle with their style which will cause problems next season Modern day crazy gang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, windae cleaner said: For once i will agree with Stu Dickson We are now where we should be in my eyes Livy shouldn't but now are They outplayed Thistle with their style which will cause problems next season Modern day crazy gang I wouldn't say they outplayed Thistle more they were tactically better , but must also say that Thistle were not too impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 Just now, linwood buddie said: I wouldn't say they outplayed Thistle more they were tactically better , but must also say that Thistle were not too impressive. I'd go further. Livi weren't in the least impressive in the second game. Partick were toothless and lethargic. At one point they had 60 odd % possession but failed to make Alexander work for his coins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 Just now, stlucifer said: I'd go further. Livi weren't in the least impressive in the second game. Partick were toothless and lethargic. At one point they had 60 odd % possession but failed to make Alexander work for his coins. What Lucifer said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuD Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, stlucifer said: I'd go further. Livi weren't in the least impressive in the second game. Partick were toothless and lethargic. At one point they had 60 odd % possession but failed to make Alexander work for his coins. I disagree. Livingston went into the second leg with a 1 goal lead to hang onto. They were organised and set up to be difficult to break down and Thistle simply couldn't land a glove on them until they got that penalty in the last minute. Over the two legs Hopkin out thought Archibald and he got it exactly right with a total wage budget that would have been around a quarter of Thistles. Thistle are not the best side by any manner of means but you have to credit Hopkin with setting his stall up and his game plan working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TediousTom Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 This is a good debate. Let us not be sidelined with Dickson's hatred of our club. Anyway I find it hard to call, merit on both sides but.....when you consider the reports that Livis's playing budget was amongst the lowest in the division I find it extremely hard to call (and I do have a Paisley bias). Anyway well done Livingston, well done indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuD Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 The question was who has achieved more. It's quite obvious. Both managers have suffered a relegation, one manager has been promoted once, the other has been promoted twice. By definition there is no contest. The manager with two promotions wins. I wouldn't have said that before today's match but now Livingston have been promoted it's a really simple question to answer. There really shouldn't be a debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 (edited) Ross' Alloa were relegated from the championship as a part timer team. He then saved a dead in the water Saint Mirren from relegation and WON the Championship to gain promotion to the top division. Hopkins got relegated when there were two part time teams in the league, won ONE division 1 title against mainly part time teams and got Livi promoted WITHOUT winning the league. Trying to put an anti Saints negative slant on things is plain stupid Edited May 20, 2018 by stlucifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northstbuddie Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 Tactics was not the major influence on the outcome of today's match. Livi were obviously up for the task ahead whereas Partick reminded me of St Mirren in their death throws of a few seasons ago, and that was the main determining factor. Both Livi and Saints may be looking for new managers before the start of next season so the future for both clubs is uncertain at present. However, both managers are unlikely to enjoy more successful seasons than the one just completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuD Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 23 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: Alex Ferguson only achieved one promotion. He obviously was a worse manager than Hopkin according to someone's logic. You are being absurd - quite obviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuD Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 hour ago, stlucifer said: Ross' Alloa were relegated from the championship as a part timer team. He then saved a dead in the water Saint Mirren from relegation and WON the Championship to gain promotion to the top division. Hopkins got relegated when there were two part time teams in the league, won ONE division 1 title against mainly part time teams and got Livi promoted WITHOUT winning the league. Trying to put an anti Saints negative slant on things is plain stupid Hopkin, with a fraction of St Mirren's operating budget lost 8 league matches this season. Exactly the same number as St Mirren. But regardless it is absurd to skew the facts. Hopkin has two promotions to his name and one relegation. Ross has one relegation and one promotion. Hopkin has clearly achieved more in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 Getting Livi promoted today was a great achievement. Last year though? Surely getting Livi promoted to the championship last year was pretty much expected.As for counting the number of promotions as the mark of success, Neil warnock must be the most successful manager in English football history... Aye, right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuD Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: Getting Livi promoted today was a great achievement. Last year though? Surely getting Livi promoted to the championship last year was pretty much expected. As for counting the number of promotions as the mark of success, Neil warnock must be the most successful manager in English football history... Aye, right Obviously promotions are trumped by title wins, major cup wins etc. I really didn't think I'd have to explain that....but yet still on BAWA.... 2nd highest wage budget in the Champions hip, you could say the same about Jack Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 7 hours ago, StuD said: 2nd highest wage budget in the Champions hip, you could say the same about Jack Ross Can you prove that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: This should be good. One of two things will happen here. Either wiki or wilt. Another Saints' bashing topic will appear as this rant dissipates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Hopkins for Ipswish Town I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 10 hours ago, StuD said: Hopkin, with a fraction of St Mirren's operating budget lost 8 league matches this season. Exactly the same number as St Mirren. But regardless it is absurd to skew the facts. But by presenting that as a stone-cold fact, you are failing to take into account that we had the title sewn up with a handful of games to play. If you look at our form for the last six matches it's pretty much relegation stuff. Like you say, though, it's absurd to skew the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 10 hours ago, StuD said: Hopkin, with a fraction of St Mirren's operating budget lost 8 league matches this season. Exactly the same number as St Mirren. But regardless it is absurd to skew the facts. Hopkin has two promotions to his name and one relegation. Ross has one relegation and one promotion. Hopkin has clearly achieved more in the game. I will assume you also forgot to say that under Ross, saints won 6 games more, scored more goals, lost less goals, had a better GD, won more points (12) than Livy and also actually won the championship, something Hopkin had never done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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