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Showing content with the highest reputation on 04/25/2011 in all areas

  1. 2 points
    As a Saints fan of over 40 years now I’ve been following the discussions on this possible way forward with great interest. The CIC model in itself seems very laudable and worthy, however the more I read and hear about this particular proposal for St Mirren the more concerned I become. There are a numbers of areas of concerns for me, and I apologise in advance if some of these have been covered elsewhere, but I haven’t memorised the multitude of posts on the subject. It is the case that the club is largely debt free, it then seems odd that we should enter into an arrangement that could see the club associated with a debt of up to £1.2m. Irrespective of the debt being held by the 10000 hours CIC I can’t see how this can be anything other than a drain on the club. The Information Document says that “The funding to repay any debt will come from two main areas. Firstly, the enhanced trading of the assets of St Mirren FC”. I can only interpret this as meaning that any potential new income for St Mirren could be siphoned off by the CIC to pay debts rather than going into the development of the club or the playing squad. Indeed the fundraising ventures being entered into result in no apparent benefit to the club that I can see. The money raised being used to buy shares and pay off debt. If I was dipping into my pocket I would want the money to go straight into the club. This makes no sense to me. The Information Document also mentions increased utilisation of the clubs facilities. But there is no mention of the investment required to facilitate this. How much investment is required to make full use of the clubs facilities? What is the projected annual income? How much will go into the playing budget? The only concrete proposal I’ve seen is for a bar. What is the projected income from the bar? How much if any of the profits from this will come back into the club? I’m not seeing much in the way of tangible benefits to St Mirren from any of this. Much has been made of the advantages of the CIC model in terms of community and fan involvement and it is absolutely correct that a CIC does offer that type of involvement. However St Mirren is not becoming a CIC. What we have instead is this rather complicated structure of a CIC with a controlling interest and 2 boards, along with board of St Mirren FC. This doesn’t seem to bode well for streamlined decision making. Neither does it bode well for community and fan involvement as the real decisions will be taken by an executive board which is apparently already appointed. It’s also puzzling that there was no mention of this board until the public meeting. The proposals are full of laudable aspirations but there does seem to be a lack of real detail. One of the other stated benefits of the proposal is the asset lock which is an integral part of any CIC. However how does this apply to St Mirren as the club itself has the assets and is not becoming a CIC? The 10000 hours CIC as far as I can see will have no assets so how is the asset lock a benefit. Perhaps someone can explain how the asset lock of a company which has no assets benefits a private company (St Mirren) which has the assets. One of the key benefits to the club as argued by the proponents of this doesn’t seem to stack up. It seems that the a major driver for all of this is the desire for a group of directors to get a pay off and that may be fair enough as I’m sure they feel they’ve done their bit and deserve it. But the club is more important than the financial interests of any group of individual and we shouldn’t be embarking on any risky ventures. Another driver seems to be the desire for Richard Atkinson to get control of the club via this model. Why then isn’t he putting in any investment of his own into the club, even a modest one? He may be a nice guy, and I don’t doubt that he is well intentioned, but what exactly is his track record in business. If we are effectively letting this guy run the club what prior experience does he have that would make him a suitable candidate to run a football club like St Mirren. If the CIC model is the way to go then why hasn’t RA simply got the finance together to buy the controlling interest in the club and then transform it into a CIC? This would seem to me a much more sensible and straightforward way to go than setting up a CIC as a separate entity, which then takes on debt, which has to be paid off. There may be a simple answer to this. I can’t see one. St Mirren at the moment is basically financially sound and largely debt free. Things are not perfect at the club but we seem to be fairly stable at the moment. The more I look at the CIC proposal the more I become convinced that it is potentially a dangerous leap in the dark and a route we should not be taking.
  2. 1 point
    faraway saint

    Far Flung Fud Club

    The recent mud slinging from "real supporters" has resulted in the real need for all supporters who don't really give a fkuc and can't be arsed turning up to become one and become members of the official Far Flung Fud Club. Dumfriesbud has (god bless, he doesn't have much of a life) come up with a real winning design for our official T-shirts. He has agreed, well, he husnae but he will, to take orders and supply the cheapest price possible, as we're all mean cnuts! Please sign up. We need to decide the maximum limit of games all members can attend in one season, we don't want to ruin our reputation.
  3. 1 point
    spirit of 77

    The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours

    You want him to pipe down , or what? The hysteria coming from the zealously pro-CIC community is now developing into implied threats. this is turning into the richard atkinson personality cult and the members need to be referred to by a collective name that suits their hysteria. You will henceforth be known as Dickophiles. This is meant to be a debate, Yul posted some contentious points in a humorous style and animal has contiuned to make serious and important points. I dont see a lot of what they ask being answered by 10000 hours people, just a playground swarm of Dickophiles rounding on anyone that questions the validity of the whole thing. Your all so desperate to protect your "close to the action" status that you are happy for the potential prospect of the club being ruined to not be questioned. In theory, the CIC seems a reasonable idea to me, however the vehicle that they want to use does not seem intended for the running of a multi-million pound enterprise and the grants, loans etc are not yet certain to materialise. 10000 hours, i have 2 questions. 1 if anyone signs on as a member, falls on hard times and defaults on their £120 pa commitment, will you then call on credit management companies to take action and recover the funds owed? 2 If the model fails to deliver the necessary income required to pay off the loans, then what does "going back to the funders" really mean? Would that be a request for more voluntary contributions or would the members be legally liable for a portion of the debt? Come to think of it, there is a third question. 3 If public funds are sought then these will be in the gift of governmental and non-governmental organisations, which are usually headed up by former politicians, civil-servants etc. What happens when we default on the payments ( i think this is almost certain to happen)? Am i right in thinking that the creditors can then take ownership of the shares and then try to sell them off to recoup their outlay? Answers, please.
  4. 1 point
    ds10

    The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours

    I would quite like to hear what made you change your mind. Overall I imagine that the scheme is probably a good thing for the club, although I do have some significant reservations. There are a number of people who appear to have been blinded the romantic notion of the club being run by the fans and the community. However I think it's in the best interests of everybody including the club for a proper debate to take place, as one way or another this is an extremely important time for the club. This is something that posters should take into account when aiming personal abuse at others, however naive or disagreeable their posts might be. Also may be an idea if the mods are particularly careful that a proper debate is allowed to take place and that EVERYBODY is allowed to air there views freely. After all I'm sure most of us have the clubs best interests at heart and if all the issues can be discussed and resolved the it will be to the club's benefit.
  5. -1 points
    The current BOD are tired, they want out. Well why don't they step down then? All they want is their pay off, why else have they been snapping up shares left right and centre? Here is the real alternative. Do not support the CIC, have a fresh BOD's voted in. Build the members bar and continue to run a tight ship at St Mirren Football Club.
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