northstbuddie

No - population base does not entitle St Mirren to a top six position. My point is that clubs with a similar or lesser population base than St Mirren, such as Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Dunfermline, Inverness and St Johnstone, have all achieved better league performances at some point over the past 40 years. Over such an extended period it is not unrealistic to have expected St Mirren to have achieved top six finishes for say one tenth of that time - i.e. 4. Whereas we have achieved exactly zilch. We have never been a good league team but we have had more than our fair share of cup success over the same period.

What I find disappointing and surprising is that so many fans on here seem to be resigned to our fate as second raters. Despite the sad fact that we have failed to finish in the top six in Scotland for nearly forty years, some people consider that is as much as we can hope for. Yes, compared to some, we have been run as a responsible business - living within our means, but where has our ambition and forward planning disappeared to? The heady days of the seventies and eighties are a distant memory or was it just an illusion? These were based not just on the drive and ability of talented managers but also on an effective scouting system run by the way by (Uncle) Jack Gilmour. As we look to replace the manager for the umpteenth time under the present regime who have done their bit in the past but now want out, it is time that the club ownership is sorted out once and for all, before we slide into the third tier of an impoverished Scottish league. It is difficult to see any incoming manager making a go of things under the present setup. Paisley deserves and has the potential to do better.

What makes you say that? Why shouldn't we be looking to get into the top six now and again - I am not saying that is what we should expect every season, but a club of our potential should be looking beyond the second or third tier of Scottish football, just now and again - especially when you recognise how second rate our national game is in general at the present time. Don't you find it slightly disappointing that we have failed to finish in the top six for nearly forty years? By your own yardstick, it would need the whole of the bottom half of the SPFL to over-achieve to stay above St Mirren. My expectations of where St Mirren should be are based on potential support and a 'half-full' rather than 'half-empty' philosophy on life. Maybe I am just naive!

I have already acknowledged that we have done relatively well in cup competitions. My main points are that :- not since the reigns of Jim Clunie and Ricky MacFarlane (ie. 1978/83) have we achieved a finish in the top half of the top league. Surely it is not unrealistic to hope for a better league success rate than that over 35 years for the largest town in Scotland; in general (there are a few exceptions) managers and players have consistently under-achieved at St Mirren in the past ten years or so in terms of league form/performance.

I expect a club of our tradition and fan base to experience at least a top six finish three or four times over 50 years. My memory is not what it used to be, but I can't recall us finishing in the top half of the top league without going back to the era of Ricky MacFarlane and Jim Clunie - and that was not yesterday. We have singularly failed to achieve what the likes of St Johnstone, ICT, Kilmarnock, Motherwell and even Dunfermline, with smaller fan bases, have in terms of league success which is fair barometer of success. I do accept that we have done ok in cup competitions over this time but that was more down to talented players at the time and not to us having an efficient, professional set up at St Mirren. And yes clubs have their ups and downs - but we have known more downs than ups in terms of league success.

I have been supporting St Mirren since the 1950s and in all of that time we have had a handful of successful managers, even arguably the most successful of all time in world football history (who we had the sole distinction of sacking) - others to varying degrees include Ricky MacFarlane, Jim Clunie and Tom Hendrie. However, since around the time of the 1987 cup win, as a club, we have had the mentality of a provincial second division club, instead of that of a club representing the largest town in Scotland. Yes we have a modern stadium (fit for a second division club), have good training facilities at Ralston and are reasonably free of debt - but the heart and ambition has been gradually sucked out of St Mirren and its support. Over this time, we have developed and nurtured an attitude of negativity and total lack of ambition. Yet we are one of the oldest and greatest clubs in Scotland, but under the stewardship of various boards of directors we have seen the likes of Ross County, Inverness Caley, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St Johnstone and Hamilton Accies etc leave us lagging behind and now we are struggling to compete with the likes of Alloa, Livingston and dare I say Morton? Both managers and players do not seem to achieve their full potential at our club and Murray is just the latest to fall short of expectations. This seems to be the only consistent aspect about St Mirren over the past 30 years or so. Before we appoint the latest manager/victim we should pause to ask why this is the case.

Gie's a break LPM - you've made your point for the past 5 months or so. Maybe there's a chance you'll actually encourage the next victim/manager.

Murray has resigned

Last season we were trying to reconcile ourselves with the reality that the likes of Ross County, Patrick Thistle and Kilmarnock have left us behind. Now this season we will have to get used to the fact that Morton, Livingstone and Alloa are threatening to do the same!

Whilst it cannot be argued that the manager has managed successfully, it equally cannot be claimed that the players have played competently. That was a shambles- no midfield, no cohesion and no confidence. On this form it is hard to see us avoiding relegation into the third tier of an impoverished Scottish game.

Hope to watch the game on St Mirren TV in Lanzarote. COYS!!!

Does anyone on here actually wish to see Murray succeed as manager of St Mirren - especially LPM?

Depressed, disillusioned and disjointed - adjectives that describe the state of play (and the supporters) at our beloved club.. Yet what is happening at Greenhill Road is not unique. Even the mighty (wealthy) Chelsea and Man U have not had their troubles to seek in the recent past. As for ourselves, relatively speaking we have seen better days! However, whilst it is highly unlikely, it cannot be totally discounted that the present management team and players can turn things round before it is too late. Alec Miller's influence on tactics and team morale will take a few weeks to take effect, but most fans on here have stated that the current player pool is potentially as good as we have had for some time - despite the loss of McLean and McGinn What is obviously lacking at the moment is confidence and concentration - 2 essential ingredients in any successful team. Team selections and tactics have also contributed to our present demise but hopefully Miller will be able to influence things in that regard. Here's hoping!!!

I, and many others, wish you could share Isle of Bute's optimism - even just occasionally.

We did not deserve to lose that. The fact that we did was down to individual errors of judgement (Langfield) and sloppy marking (Kelly). At least there has been an improvement on recent seasons' defending when we regularly gave opposing wingers acres of room to get their crosses in. Kelly IMO has the makings of a quality player but he has to concentrate more on picking up opponents coming in to meet crosses from the left wing. Instead, he tends to drift into the middle of the penalty box as if he was still playing in a central defensive position. However overall, every player performed well as a team and this was a huge improvement on last year's standards. Up front, we now have several players capable of scoring on a regular basis in addition to Thommo. Ironically, whilst we are not exactly lacking in midfield, this is an area in which we used to have an abundance of options and although we have seen good individual performances this season we have still to gel as a unit. If we play like that in every game, we will be in the play-offs at the end of the season, but I have a feeling that is unrealistic and that we may have to wait until next season.

It's not like posters 1 & 2 to be so negative!

I played in the sandpit but did not watch from the main stand. I only had that privilege on a few occasions in the late sixties when a mate of mine, Sandy McPherson was playing for the reserves.

Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone. 70 years is a lifetime especially when you support St Mirren. I was probably around 4 years old when my father started taking me to Love Street - although the first few years I spent playing in the sand pit at the side of the main stand. (Is there a sand pit at Greenhill Road?) Too many happy memories to list here - so better looking to the future (what's left of it) and wishing the present players and management all the best for the rest of the season by keeping up the traditions of one of the oldest and greatest clubs in Scotland. We are not as bad as some fans make us out to be.

Thanks Saints - I can now celebrate my big birthday on Tuesday.

Appropriately filed in the 'General Nonsense' section of the forum.

Spare a thought for Elvis tonight.

We are now entering the realms of speculative gossip because no-one on here knows for a fact what each player was earning over the past couple of seasons. What is clear is that in general standards, have dropped from the player pool we had a couple of seasons ago. For whatever reason, players of ability have been allowed to move on either because they were too good for us (eg. Kenny McLean); or we apparently were not prepared to pay the going rate; or the players did not see eye to eye with the manager. What cannot be argued is that we have gone backwards since the heady days of 2013. It has been the Midas touch in reverse brought about by incompetent stewardship by the BoD. The players brought in a year ago reflected the Board's stale attitude to the welfare of our beloved club. One thing I am certain of, if we had an in-form John McGinn today, we would not be sitting third bottom of the league. However, some of the players brought in for this season, have been an improvement on last season's acquisitions, but the jury is till out as to whether the new management team can achieve the improvement that we would all like to see on the pitch in terms of results and consistency. I like many on here am prepared to give them time to turn things round.

Murray mints?

I remember it well. However, don't confuse poor defending with an attacking formation. The two are not mutually exclusive!

You obviously have not fully read my post. I was comparing the national team's performance and tactics with our own over recent weeks (however unrealistic that might be). I was challenging the widely-held concept that it makes sense to defend just north of the 18 yard box rather than to actually try and win the game in your opponents half. Germany showed us how it is done last night by playing a simple, straight forward passing/possession game in our half of the pitch. Is that beyond Scotland or St Mirren? The Germans played as a unit rather than an assembly of particularly gifted individuals. We used to slate the Italians (in Jock Stein's day) for their negative and defensive tactics. Now, decades later, we aspire to play the old (not the current) Italian style. Even Italy don't play like that any more. It's not just this forum that has more than its fair share of negativity. And St Mirren will win more games this season with an attacking attitude rather than adopting the tactics of some recent games where we were standing off too much and inviting the opposition to have a go at us.