garzo

NO,NO, NO. That is not what I'm saying. In fact it is the complete opposite. HELP!
Sorry to burst your bubble but it is just like any old business. If the business fails there is no football club. Business should be at the centre of every decision taken, the emotional side needs to be separated or things will go wrong - think Fergus McCann. He didn't make them successful by doing what the fans wanted.

Anyway, whatever happens I've no doubt this will all work out for the benefit of St Mirren football club in the end.
I've no doubt the money will be paid back as set out.
I'd ask for this type of thing not to happen again though, if that's allowed on here ;-)
To me it's running counter to the original intent as set out in the Buy The Buds deal.
Ring-fenced funds should not be risked - however low that risk may be or perception of harm to club operating budget.
I take my view on this and most SMISA related matters now from a business perspective.
Thinking in straight lines and putting relevant aspects in particular boxes - it's how my brain works unfortunately :-)
I'm looking at this as a shareholder, not a fan - that's another hat all together.
IMO if we are to become owners of a football club then we must reach that point at the earliest point in time.
Is that not the main purpose of SMISA - correct me please if I'm picking all this up wrong..
I'd go as far to put to the vote all £2 pot goes towards shares, so we've got even more money just sitting in the bank!

Go on. Try selling Buy the buds to me again. 
Whats the deal?

Simple principles should be applied.
We’re saving to buy shares - period.
No deviation from this should be allowed unless under extreme circumstances.

Quite simple really. I think its a fair deal, if only 1 shareholder is investing, that the shareholder is compensated in proportion by the other.
That's my point - we can vote to be a cash cow if we like, for no return - that's what's being asked of us I think.
As fans, we might say - yes that's fine.
But in this context and for such a large some of money we should think like shareholders.
Shareholders should be compensated.
I'm not aware of the deal and relations between all parties so I'm commenting from a distance on this...
Here's what I see about to happen.
We give the money we are saving to buy shares in the club, direct to the club, on our own as shareholders and for little or no return.
We then save up again to purchase shares from another shareholder later on.
Is this what we are voting on?
If other shareholders are doing the same and in proportion then that is OK .
If we get the money back by agreement as a loan, than that's OK too.
Otherwise its a gift, donation - call it sponsorship if you like.
But it's not what the money was intended for - it was intended to buy shares - that's its sole purpose and it should be ring fenced for that purpose.
Just my view mind and I'm open to be convinced otherwise :-)

Fully support our chairman and what he's done to get the fan ownership model off and running.
Full credit and respect to the team at SMISA too.
As shareholders we should be saving up to purchase the shares - only once!
That is the sole reason for SMISA existing and why we are saving up - nothing (barring catastrophe) should deflect us from that singular objective.
This deal is OK if we are offered shares in return, otherwise we are paying for the shares twice!
Just my view mind :-)

Chapter 1 - The answer to the simple question
Naw they don't.  By Christ they do not.  By the sword of Odin, No.  In the name of the wee man, naw.  By the light of the silvery moon it's a negative.  As sure as eggs are eggs and Greenock is a dump I must say no. 
 
Chapter 2 - What are Smisa really
This is a forum for all supporters of the Saint Mirren professional football club pte ltd co and not just a small section and Smisa ARE a small section.  Something akin to a cult or sect and like all cults or sects they crave power and recognition and will stop at nothing to achieve said aims whilst inevitably alienating those who are not in said cult or sect. 
 
Chapter 3 - The Smisa cult doth grow
Oh yes just now it's just a bit of one upmanship and mutual back patting but soon the cult/sect will slowly become more aggressive in it's aims, shunning less important supporters, ensuring non Smisa supporters pay higher season ticket prices before the inevitable beatings will start.  Soon non Smisa members will have symbols painted on there front doors to identify them and we will be forced to wear special non Smisa badges.  Slowly but surely shops/pubs etc will start to refuse us service, around this time the forehead tattoos of non sect/cult members will be enforced with violence.  As the sect/cult grows it's ambition will grow in line with it's strength until we are all forced to vote for Smisa candidates in unfair council elections.  Smisa will have by then recruited a militia of boot boys, a perversion of the drummer boy and his group who will roam the streets of Paisley and demand randomly that citizens produced a Smisa ID card or risk being shot as an unbeliever.  Rival protest groups will be ruthlessly shut down with violence and murder, groups like "The communist Buddies" and "St Mirin peace brigade" will have there shops and businesses burnt out with all male members being put to death whilst female members will have there heads shaved at Paisley cross and SMISA 4EVA tattooed upon there heathen foreheads.  Black and white leather coats will be worn by high ranking Smisa officials, also know as "the Smisa Polis" who will pick up non Smisa supporters in open top cars and drive them off toward the braes where they are never seen again.  Smisa will grow and grow under a ruthless and ideological fitba junta and have all of Paisley firmly under it's jackboot.
 
Chapter 4 - How the mighty fall
History tells us that such power hungry cults/sects are doomed to failure.  Even Christianity with its roots as a Roman Empire sect and having it's inquisition and all that evil in its past will also fade as it is doing today.  Smisa, although destined to be powerful and ruthless will also ultimately die the death of the zealot cult.  Eventually darkness will give way to light, dusk becomes dawn and Paisley will eventually step out of the shadow cast so violently by it's Smisa oppressor's.  Just like all doctrines before, Smisa will slowly but absolutely be doomed by education.  Scholars and martyrs will pose uncomfortable questions to a regime struggling with it's public image such as "why can't we just buy season tickets like we used to" and "but I only go to the odd game as I have to work to feed my starving family, please Smisa overlords let me just buy a ticket now and again".  Like the collapse of the Berlin wall Smisa's wall of oppression will be pulled down, a wall built over a long period of time with fear, violence and oppression will quickly and absolutely lose its power as the enlightened people of Paisley  rise up and take back the freedom that is "can I no just go to the fitba". 
 
Chaper 5 - How will you be remembered
Many a good person will find themselves enforcing Smisa ideology, especially in the early days before the full horror of Smisa domination is released upon an unsuspecting public.  Smisa will have its own heroes and martyrs and in the short term these people will be celebrated by Smisa peers and an afraid public but in time these heroes of society will be written into the history books as the villains they ultimately are.  The fans council (who will be forced to meet in secret much like the Catholics of the reformation) will be vilified and hunted ruthlessly and when caught dragged through the streets to kangaroo courts in the Bankhouse, Langs and the Argylle bar.  The fans council will of course be the beacon of light that even Smisa cannot dull.  The fans council will become increasingly popular amongst  radical students and before too long peaceful protect will turn to ugly riots with tree hugging, greasy haired, spotty, vegetarian students of the "Reid Kerr Fans Cooncil" clashing with with Smisa's elite "Supra brigade".  The fans council will of course lose all the battles as intellect and reason is not particularly good in a pitched battle against the ultra violent Supra's.  Like the Americans during there own revolution the Fans Council will ultimately win the day, not by winning but by returning to the fight time and time again.  Smisa, whilst continuing to inflict heavy losses on the fans council will slowly lose it's ruthless grip on power as it's own band of thugs is slowly depleted by a weaker force that keeps returning reinforced with more and more "lefties" answering the call.  Smisa will eventually fall to a fans council who have been battle hardened and will be unforgiving in its mercy as Smisa officials are tried and convicted of war crimes in those same Kangaroo courts of the Bankhouse, Langs and the Argylle. 
Ultimately Smisa members will be scarcely remembered by history with only tales of its most horrific members used as propaganda by the now ruling fans council.  The history books will of course be emblazoned with heroic stories of the fans council victors.  Stories of the fans council 1st Brigade "Crossing the Cart" will hang proudly in Paisley museum much like Washington crossing the Delaware.  Children will learn one sided accounts of "the massacre at Gilmour street" and "the battle of the Bull Inn" where fans council leaders wear hippy t-shirts and squinty flat bunnet's against the evil Smisa and its black and white leather coats and big boots.  In generations to come all Paisley families will claim to have ancestors who fought in the Paisley revolutionary wars but ALL will celebrate the family members of the fans council and airbrush the Smisa members from there own genealogy.  Smisa will become an insult and children's nursery rhymes will reference the evil Smisa and righteous fans council/
History will remember Smisa as it recalls many a failed dictarship, with hatred and lies!
 
Chaper 6 - What can we do to stop the inevitable hellish rise of Smisa?
Nothing, Smisa and its doctrines all already up and running.  We can however curtail the sect/cult before it grows into the tyrannical power that it is destined to be.  I the meantime I would suggest that Smisa have a members forum (if they don't already) where Smisa people can debate Smisa issues in a Smisa environment populated by there Smisa peers. This will keep the evils of Smisa away from the normal public whilst petty in house Smisa squabbles are fought and various factions viie for power.  The downside of the Smisa forum would be that certain Smisa members would be unable to show off at being Smisa members to us more peasant like non Smisa members who merely support the club in a peasantry style way that marks as less valuable to the human race as Smisa members.  The doctrine is laid out and the future may well be bleak, bleak indeed.

"""would reduce the core budget available for the first team and the club's day-to-day operation
=  if you don’t do it the playing budget will be affected.
So our share of the pitch upgrade at Ralston would – over time – be paid for entirely from £2 and discretionary money –
but we would use funds which would otherwise be sitting in the bank to let it happen sooner."""
is emotional blackmail :-)
It's sitting in the bank for a reason!!!

Anyway, whatever happens I've no doubt this will all work out for the benefit of St Mirren football club in the end.
I've no doubt the money will be paid back as set out.
I'd ask for this type of thing not to happen again though, if that's allowed on here ;-)
To me it's running counter to the original intent as set out in the Buy The Buds deal.
Ring-fenced funds should not be risked - however low that risk may be or perception of harm to club operating budget.
I take my view on this and most SMISA related matters now from a business perspective.
Thinking in straight lines and putting relevant aspects in particular boxes - it's how my brain works unfortunately :-)
I'm looking at this as a shareholder, not a fan - that's another hat all together.
IMO if we are to become owners of a football club then we must reach that point at the earliest point in time.
Is that not the main purpose of SMISA - correct me please if I'm picking all this up wrong..
I'd go as far to put to the vote all £2 pot goes towards shares, so we've got even more money just sitting in the bank!

"""would reduce the core budget available for the first team and the club's day-to-day operation
=  if you don’t do it the playing budget will be affected.
So our share of the pitch upgrade at Ralston would – over time – be paid for entirely from £2 and discretionary money –
but we would use funds which would otherwise be sitting in the bank to let it happen sooner."""
is emotional blackmail :-)
It's sitting in the bank for a reason!!!

Anyway, whatever happens I've no doubt this will all work out for the benefit of St Mirren football club in the end.
I've no doubt the money will be paid back as set out.
I'd ask for this type of thing not to happen again though, if that's allowed on here ;-)
To me it's running counter to the original intent as set out in the Buy The Buds deal.
Ring-fenced funds should not be risked - however low that risk may be or perception of harm to club operating budget.
I take my view on this and most SMISA related matters now from a business perspective.
Thinking in straight lines and putting relevant aspects in particular boxes - it's how my brain works unfortunately :-)
I'm looking at this as a shareholder, not a fan - that's another hat all together.
IMO if we are to become owners of a football club then we must reach that point at the earliest point in time.
Is that not the main purpose of SMISA - correct me please if I'm picking all this up wrong..
I'd go as far to put to the vote all £2 pot goes towards shares, so we've got even more money just sitting in the bank!

"""would reduce the core budget available for the first team and the club's day-to-day operation
=  if you don’t do it the playing budget will be affected.
So our share of the pitch upgrade at Ralston would – over time – be paid for entirely from £2 and discretionary money –
but we would use funds which would otherwise be sitting in the bank to let it happen sooner."""
is emotional blackmail :-)
It's sitting in the bank for a reason!!!

"""would reduce the core budget available for the first team and the club's day-to-day operation
=  if you don’t do it the playing budget will be affected.
So our share of the pitch upgrade at Ralston would – over time – be paid for entirely from £2 and discretionary money –
but we would use funds which would otherwise be sitting in the bank to let it happen sooner."""
is emotional blackmail :-)
It's sitting in the bank for a reason!!!

Go on. Try selling Buy the buds to me again. 
Whats the deal?

Go on. Try selling Buy the buds to me again. 
Whats the deal?

Go on. Try selling Buy the buds to me again. 
Whats the deal?

Spoke to a few people in passing yesterday at the game. 
All n agreement that SMISA are wrong with this proposal. 
Unfortunately it’s been put across in such a way, with emotional blackmail included, that means it’s more likely to be passed. 
Disappointing & an error of judgement in my view. Doesn’t fill me with confidence. 

Spoke to a few people in passing yesterday at the game. 
All n agreement that SMISA are wrong with this proposal. 
Unfortunately it’s been put across in such a way, with emotional blackmail included, that means it’s more likely to be passed. 
Disappointing & an error of judgement in my view. Doesn’t fill me with confidence. 

Simple principles should be applied.
We’re saving to buy shares - period.
No deviation from this should be allowed unless under extreme circumstances.

Simple principles should be applied.
We’re saving to buy shares - period.
No deviation from this should be allowed unless under extreme circumstances.

Spoke to a few people in passing yesterday at the game. 
All n agreement that SMISA are wrong with this proposal. 
Unfortunately it’s been put across in such a way, with emotional blackmail included, that means it’s more likely to be passed. 
Disappointing & an error of judgement in my view. Doesn’t fill me with confidence. 

Spoke to a few people in passing yesterday at the game. 
All n agreement that SMISA are wrong with this proposal. 
Unfortunately it’s been put across in such a way, with emotional blackmail included, that means it’s more likely to be passed. 
Disappointing & an error of judgement in my view. Doesn’t fill me with confidence. 

I've not made any specific suggestion and suggesting I have suggested our club take a financial hit is off the mark - I say the club operate within its means.
here's the options, correct me if you see otherwise.
1. SMISA ring-fence the monies as intended and the club operate within its means,
2. SMISA members vote to transfer ring fenced monies as a donation/ sponsorship to the club and the club operate within its means with little or no return to SMISA,
SMISA save up to replace this ring fenced money.
3. SMISA members vote to transfer ring fenced monies as an investment in lieu of other shareholders investment - shares transfer in proportion between shareholders.
As far as I read this, option 3 is not on the table, so I voted for 1.
And as I've also said I'm commenting from afar - 1 and 2 may be the essence of the deal and a shareholder agreement, who knows?

It's not what the money is for.
We don't own it yet. 
SMISA are not a business.
We're saving up to own a business - that is the deal.
I'm sorry you don't understand this.

Entitled to that view, respect it.
This however is a business transaction.
We are saving up to take control of a business - we should start acting like it.