Sweeper07

saltcoatsbuddie, on 01 Nov 2015 - 20:20, said: Are they really? I find that incredibly hard to believe. What do you base that on? My guess is he was using SARCASM

"Obviously money is indeed the critical factor there." That is the primary issue of why we are where we are. We need to invest in a decent team and a decent manager - not the pi**sh we have had since Danny was let go. And Danny too had his budget cut, best players moved on all driven by the money saving agenda continuously. At the same time when Ross County were a dead cert for relegation, they sacked the manager, bought a ship load of players and then went on a run that has the 3rd best points collection in Scottish football since. They may have invested a large sum of money - but they are still getting Premiership income each week and in football terms 15 or 16 places above us at present, when they were several below. Good businesses invest wisely for best performance - for a football club, that does not mean in the first instance with the accounts (Though being reckless is utter folly) - it is the team/manager/director performance that produces the points that win prizes OR in our case LACK of them that means we are in relegation trouble. If money reasons is the factor that keeps Murray in the job - what budget cuts will he have for the division down for next season?

Really "Your bed wetting issues projected onto someone else", that is your best comeback as the "TEAM" are out of their depth against Falkirk - 3 v 0 is a mauling we have not been able to deal out to anyone in this crap league. Good on Hibs yesterday though - they showed that if we had really had the balls at Director level we could have been up there with a chance of beating everyone in this league. .Last 8 league games - 1 win, 2 draws, 5 defeats = 5 points from 24 To say we are floundering is a serious understatement. EAGERLY looking for the news that 99 % of Saints fans want - Sack the donkey who canny manage a game of tiddly winks before our season is a complete washout and relegation play-off are the only drama. The AXE WILL fall this week we hope - and if we do so soon we can get someone in who can have some time to plan drastic team improvements in the January Transfer window. IF Murray stays we can forget about a Scottish Cup run too!

~Hey - what we need is "patience everything will be fine" that's what some have been posting - we are all getting used to serious underperforming ******** Last 7 league games - 1 win, 2 draws, 4 defeats = 5 points from 21 Expectations for better than this are NOT unreasonable. Excuses are not needed - No Director can think action does not need to be taken URGENTLY before we are seriously in danger of relegation

I heard a Mr Mourinho is available soon! Goodwin as interim - that's how we usually do it anyway. MacNamara also a possibility. Peter Houston ?? Somebody other than Murray - that is essential

Continuous improvement or at least scoring some goals regularly and winning more often is what all fans, The Management Team and directors want - right? So who should we offload in January and who might we be able to attract that can make us a better team? This is not an exam ! Just an appeal to throw up some ideas to help our club consider some possibilities?

Continuous improvement or at least scoring some goals regularly and winning more often is what all fans, The Management Team and directors want - right? So who should we offload in January and who might we be able to attract that can make us a better team? This is not an exam ! Just an appeal to throw up some ideas to help our club consider some possibilities?

We both agree that there are too many old firm like glory hunting, non attending supporters. In Fergie's era we gave away tickets to school kids who brought a paying adult with them to matches - other businesses do similar marketing things to improve their businesses - there will always be a percentage of parents who will be happier taking their weans to Paisley rather than the Old firm. Lets make it attractive for them in as many ways as possible! Scoring goals each week has a wonderful effect on supporters, the players, the management team and the Directors! EVERYONE is a winner - and it is possible to do that without blowing a hole in our finances!

You missed my point, his success was when he arrived at each club with the team he inherited - things always went downhill fast at every one of his clubs and he was soon sacked. I heard him on TV so often and he never ever gave me any confidence he knew what he was doing. (He was a decent player though) Good managers get kept on or poached by bigger clubs again and again - folk soon got wise to Hay though.

YES indeed, very, very simple - far too simple though. Giving the fans something worthwhile is I'm afraid something all football clubs have to consider and make a real attempt to deliver on. You are not happy with supporters of our club who do not have low expectations like you clearly do! So are you taunting me to go support someone else? I was born in Paisley - and I have always supported St. Mirren ALL my life. Through thick, but more often through thin! Like all Saints fans, the highs are incredible and very much enjoyed, and it is not a bad thing to keep wanting more of them is it? We are in the thinnest period quality wise, at the moment for a very long time after 10 years in the top league, our team that won the league the year before that was lots better - ( just look at the stats) - we are at the tail end of a very inferior one now. Only a few years ago we were winning 1 of the 3 big prizes - There is no chance of a repeat of that with this squad/manager and the present budget restrictions - despite no debt!!!. I have not stopped supporting our team! We will never compete with Real Madrid or the like - but struggling to compete with Livingstone, Dumbarton and the like is an absolute shambles No real Saint's fan thinks that is fine! I cannot believe manager or directors do either - but at least you do! Maybe you think you should be commended for your loyalty - but I am not being disloyal either. We just have different opinions - I can live with that. A better team though will get better support and be more successful and I am confident that at least 99% of our fans want that rather than turning up each week for a defeat, happy to turn up for more of the same week after week - so can't we both agree that having that aim is not unrealistic? OR is penny pinching constant failure what we really have to enjoy - our place in the pecking order is not in the top 10 !

You express the one game at a time mentality which is far too simplistic for a business model. Directors should have longer term plans (5 - 10 years). In those plans there should be SMART Goals, Targets, and actions should be taken to ensure we invest appropriately to achieve the goals. ~There is no evidence that this is happening since we sold off Love Street, and became solvent. You would think this would have been a positive springboard - by alas NO. We must be driven with a budget that means success is not required. I do attend games when I can. I would love to more often, and would make even more effort to do so if the "Team" were really worth watching. I remember the days when you knew that, McGarvey or McDougal or Somner would score every other week. Guys like Stark, Munro, Weir and Richardson were a delight. Even guys like Goncalves were worth the entrance fee every game. The squad is not good enough to get back to the Premier league or to live there - simple, not good enough and as a fan I don't think that is unreasonable for a club our size. (Paisley has a big population - but we ain't attracting very many fans by comparison)

Go on explain this in English. Isn't Stuart trying to sell off and make a profit on his shares? Trouble is his poor performance has brought the value right down.

Really - so 5 points from the last 18, a mediocre team a few points off relegation in a poor league is great - as long as they are getting paid and we survive. What amazing ambition you have - you would be an ideal supporter for a team at a much lower level than this!!!

Who in any sanity thinks Davie Hay was a quality manager? Managing Livingstone twice, Dunfermline, Motherwell and us all for about 1 season only. He lasted 2 seasons at Celtic and any success he had he got with the team he inherited - he was never there long enough to build anything good! Just because he came from Celtic as a player does not qualify him as a quality manager I 'm afraid

Firstly Shull you seem obsessed by wet knickers! (Wondering if you had a problem with bed wetting?) Secondly, it is our pastime, but for Gilmour and the Directors, Murray and the players it is their livelihoods. St. Mirren Football Club is a business! And the fans don't turn up every week thinking if we will 1 game in 5 that will be great. Whoopee! CONSTRUCTIVE DISCONTENT drives better results - so who does not want that?

You really think our league results outwith the last weekend are heading in a more positive direction? Not sure why we should discount the game at the weekend, cos in reality it counts also - BUT in the 5 most recent league games except for last weekend we have 1 win, 2 draws and 2 defeats - I make that 5 points from a possible 15. What low expectations you have. I don't think it is just Old firm supporters who expect better than this? If we include last weekend it is 5 points from 18 - is that perfectly acceptable for anyone???? Football is big business and we are not delivering acceptable results - decent managers/directors of any business would not see this as ok.

In management goals are set and measured against past results! The looking forwards bits are done by setting new targets and delivering them!!

Yeah we played Livingstone 3 times - 1 win, 1 draw, 1 defeat --- you happy with that?

Agreed but that was back in 1986 - A year later we won the Scottish Cup So almost 30 years ago. Maybe this is the area of greatest need, if we are to make the very much needed improvements we all want to see.

Yeah, but they beat us and put us out of the League cup too - remember, and took 2 points off of us in the league also.

When did we last attract any quality managers??????

I appreciate the sentiment that we should be more positive. Although, the post above was directed at Lord pityme, I too have been negative often on this website. I love my job, have a great wife and fine kids (Though I have teenagers, they aint too bad either). I have played football professionally - and I know that at different clubs, the expectations are very different - the ones who do well ALWAYS have much higher expectations. (I have been with Jim Jeffries when his team dropped 2 points against a team 2 places below them in the league. It was like manic depression - winning, 3 points has to have that level of importance) So I do not think it is reasonable for us to be where we are at the moment, our win record is no where near good enough and we continue to be low scorers, which makes winning a whole lot more difficult. (How many goals to games have any in our team for this season currently got - it is even worse if you discount the di*ddy cup)?) That is what brought us down and what will keep us down. (Though of course defence etc. matters too.) I have been there when St Mirren lifted cups like the Scottish etc. I have watched us sink to this depth, while others have risen higher over the same timeframe. So as a Saints fan I want us to do our best and it has been a very very long time since we have been as poor as this. Current prospects are not greatly hopeful either? Another year minimum at this level. (Even if we miraculously reached the play offs - we would get annihilated as Gers did last year) I hope that by keeping up the pressure, fans, management and directors will agree that this is not good enough, and put the necessary fixes in place. I hope that all my posts are constructive - I am a fan, but I have to be a realist and the continual budget cuts, selling of the best players, cheap options for managers like Craig, Teal etc. have not proved cheap in the long run or much good in any way. e.g. Had directors got their way and dumped Goodwin, we would be so much poorer than we are at the moment. (He is obviously on better money, so the attempt to off-load him is their norm) As a manager of a big organisation, I know what it takes juggling so many things. But at Saints not much is being done nearly well enough. Positives - Webster; Goodwin getting back into the team and making it hard for him not to be the 1st name on the team sheets every week. Other younger players arriving and improving. But we need to improve in every department or we will lose fans paying through the turnstiles and that won't help in any way. Future Hope - Constructive discontent (At all levels, fans, manager, Board etc.), because that is what drives better decision making, and drives continuous improvements, and delivers a much more successful Club. To suggest this is not realistic is foolish - it works in every industry and organisation that manages with excellence. We must aim for the short term - to get back into the top league and be able to live there (Quality of team/manager/directors wise and financially). Then longer term we must aim for top 6 minimum, winning cups, and having regular jaunts into Europe. Anyone think this is too ambitious?

Well from last year we have fallen a long long way - so far I don't see much progress in terms of results - and it is a results driven business. We canny beat Alloa, Dumbarton, Livingstone and the likes have beaten us. I don't have wet breeks, just some ambition!

You are reading something between the lines which is not there! I like you do not know what the next 3 results will be, but on our recent league form, I can have no confidence we will pick up 9 points - and before the season started, I think most fans would have been thinking that was a real possibility against these teams, or at least we might take 7. More likely is 1, 2, 3 or 4 don't you think? Anything less than 7 is unacceptable for me - we should be way better than these teams, after all we nearly matched the league leaders last time out, except they took all 3 points! Low expectations = less disappointments = less achievements = rubbish

Just have a look at the posts about how fine we will be at some unknown point in the future. Or the ones about not sacking a manager because he might end up as good as Alex Ferguson