antrin

It IS my choice. And I exercise it - with consummate restraint. When the forum became infested with cretins and dullards (Skidmark, shull et al), I knew that any energy and/or positive thinking expended on here was wasted. There are still some great Buddies on here... Now being drowned out by the the single-line trash and emoticon junkies. ps I appreciate 'antrim'. You used to be a contender.

Sorry, Oakley. I don't need to waste time line by line dismissing your response to my post. stlucifer summed it up, neatly and accurately.

"However nice to see the passion and watch those goals go in..." You can't read, then? Attacking - Scotland have been doing well. I was comparing Buddies attitudes to even the luckiest win and their forecasts for Saints following match to how some Buddies now seem to be doing similar with Scotland 'qualifying' from that naff group in this stupid tournament. It's a football opinion - not an attitude. Luckily I don't have to live with your 'brain'.

McLeish didn't want to be there, either, when he abandoned Scotland to take a bribe to work souf... Ca' canny.... Like all Buddies, I think some Scots are getting way ahead of themselves. However nice to see the passion and watch those goals go in, these were not wins against the world's giants.

I do... ...and I was just being silly.... Wire in!

I take your point, but... Are we all not just second-class subjects in this country?

You're simply shite-stirring (or you are simply a simpleton). Due to her policies, we now import coal from Europe and Russia,. Many of our 'national treasures' were sold off and are now owned by foreign countries eg electricity, gas, water supply (which skim off profits from that national asset). We are in hock to far Eastern countries to build Nuclear power (which won't be built in a timely fashion). Council housing stock was sold off and not replaced by sufficient low-cost housing. The British lads killed in her vainglorious attempt at war-mongering against Argentina are still cold and dead. I could go on. And on. Political decisions have ramifications (for good OR bad) for years to follow.

who? someone who perhaps had been told by AN INFORMED FRIEND that May would get big support seemingly for her BIG PLAN, The Cabinet would seem united. heaps of money would then pile into support the £ and then that INFORMED FRIEND would withdraw their support from May (perhaps resign from Cabinet after agreeing....) the £ would plummet anyone who bet AGAINST the £ would have seemed a mug, but suddenly someone could cash in. I saw what seemed to be precisely that scenario being pilloried on Twitter, but I'd guess someone was already laughing all the way to the bank, by then.

True. There's nothing to say BREXIT won't improve the plight of the impoverished in the UK. Apart from reality... To say it WILL be a beneficial improvement are those such as Mogg, Farage, Davis, Johnson, Fox... need I go on? They'll do well out of it. Mogg, I know, has a BIG finger in a hedge fund that'll do very well out of Brexit. Yes - he DOES believe there will be a financial benefit if he gets his way. BREXIT'S announced, Greed is set loose... The £ has fallen dramatically since Brexit was announced, set loose! The poor are already more impoverished. With us crashing out of the EU, there will be an even more painful hit. For them. For most people. I think you're not wholly correct about how Herr Merkel's land has been the sole beneficiary.... though it is doing well.... Despite all our narking about it, the UK is a richer place for having been a member of the EU. The Uk has benefitted immensely from it. from first hand experience, Scotland has. Most of the fine roads upon which I hurl tourists round the Highlands and Islands have been created/enhanced largely through EU monies flowing out to the outer rim of Europe, If Scotland hasn't benefitted, then why is the SNP whingeing so much about not having access to EU monies if UK departs the EU? Ach. I don't really need to care that much. I'm alright Jack. Someone else can fight the fight. f**k the begrudgers.

I don't disagree with any of that, saintnnextifetime... (Oakie was quibbling over the interpretation of why I said referenda are democratically here and have no legal power wrt how MPs in Parliament may vote. ) I'm aware that some MPs are being over-sensitive to a mendacious, fuddled presentation (on both sides) of a 'problem' that should have been miraculously solved by a people's vote. And they are scared/respectful of that mildly popular vote. The people were promised manna from heaven, bread tomorrow, an aryan future, £350m a week to invest in the NHS etc etc It turns out that what May has now presented as the 'choice' that thy wanted(given that the Gammons voted for it in a fuddled referendum) is: Either her 'positive outcome' , in which the politics, communications, trade agreements, research, health services, several lifetimes of inter-relationship s with foreign nationals will be stopped until we institute new arrangements - on a basis of the EU's choosing. There will be no further influence on what is happening in the EU but we must adhere to whatever rule changes they implement and freedom of movement will be restricted for us - if it IS for them coming here... There seems to be some dispensation for trade in goods. No mention of Services so the money mongers/ hedge funds etc who have already made millions from this farrago will be free to continue pillaging. I'm sure you've been aware of those boasting how much they made in the money markets this week betting on the £ falling? OR.. No deal. We walk away and start afresh. Insanity. A lifeboat with leaks at both ends but we voted it into existence, so we MUST set sail... Now... I'm alright, Jack. I live in the soft underbelly of Britain and am reasonably comfortable - too old apparently to need to work. But I'm lucky with that. I do worry that those already suffering in the UK will become even more impoverished than this week's UN report on UK paupers proclaimed: "British compassion for those who are suffering has been replaced by a punitive, mean-spirited, and often callous approach apparently designed to instil discipline where it is least useful, to impose a rigid order on the lives of those least capable of coping with today’s world, and elevating the goal of enforcing blind compliance over a genuine concern to improve the well-being of those at the lowest levels of British society’, said Professor Alston." The UN declaring Britons live as Paupers! Not that I'm surprised. What surprises me is that some people seem to think this is a good time to further shaft those in our society who already are suffering terrible deprivation. It's a shite state of affairs - and I think it's incumbent on MPs with a shard of compassion to ignore the Brexit vote and find another way. The other way? Either revoke Article50 to stay as we were (the sensible, best solution) or another referendum to ensure that the turkeys are really keen on their own slaughter - or, if no more lies are thrown at them and they get to see it is not a great choice.. Is the fitba back on yet?

I had already left you to it, Oakie. I'd realised (much like sweeper07, surprisingly) that logic and context are not tools in your locker. Taking words out of context and arguing that words mean whatever you want them to mean is... ...straight out of Wonderland. You're no longer in Primary School. You've barely graduated from primate school - have a banana.

Now, now.... I am at least now glad you've recognised that YOU were wittering! I'd never disputed that referenda in some countries and in some contexts CAN be deemed to be democracy in action. I am not on any other threads debating any other subject than Brexit and how the 2016 referendum result in this context is an irrelevancy. This is where your best laid scheme ganged agley... Enjoy your potassium hit.

Good news about this ferry becoming a bridge - got the go-ahead from whatever necessary committee this evening... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-46236955

Aye, I've seen DH on slavery... Heavy stuff. Glasgow Uni recently have initiated a scheme in recognition of where much of the wealth that initially helped it to flourish came from. A reasonable move.

I pointed out that in the UK ' a referendum is not democracy' - as you had claimed that they were indivisible, by posting... "The main thing is that you respect democracy and you respect the result of the referendum." You then challenged me to tell you. "says who?" I offered Wikipedia, thinking it was the blandest (and thus most the apt vehicle for you) to find the "says who" that you so needed. That succinctly explained why I rejected your conjoining referenda and democracy. It's because referenda are irrelevant in the context of the Brexit discussion. It vindicates why I said, there is no need to for Parliament and MPs to pay heed to the results of referenda. It's not I who is the confused one, squirming around for an out. There has been no need for me to "pretend you said specific things". I just quote your own simple words. I have followed the logic of these sentences and it's you who has unravelled. I know what democracy is; I know about referenda and Parliamentary sovereignty; I will, however, doff my cap to your greater knowledge of FKC... whatever that may be.

The GREATEST Screenwriter. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/nov/16/butch-cassidy-and-princess-bride-scriptwriter-william-goldman-dies-aged-87?CMP=twt_gu 87 was a good innings - he packed a lot in. Butch n Sundance "What's wrong with you? I can't swim. The fall'll probably kill you." Watergate "Follow the money." And this advice from his magnificent Adventures in the Screen Trade, "Nobody Knows anything".

ps from wikipedia "due to the principle of parliamentary sovereignty meaning that they cannot be constitutionally binding on either the Government or Parliament"

No. You're wrong. There has never been any legal requirement for MPs or governments to pay heed to the result of a referendum. You (or other Brexiters or Nationalists) may think referenda are definitely a democratic construct and their outcomes must be adhered to - but you'd be (and you are) wrong. There, there... ...have a banana.

Aye. As long as we understand that a referendum in the UK is not democracy. We have a Parliamentary democracy. This is a" good thing", as... if we vote stupidly in an election.. then we get a chance to change our votes once we observed the facts, figures, truths and potential pitfalls and disasters that may arise. Democracy allows room for voters to change their minds. Indeed, it demands flexibility in thinking for it be acceptable.

And FWIW... Many countries are unhappy with the EU structures and the pain it inflicts.... Greece, Italy, Hungary, Spain, Portugal... … there will be more... The EU certainly is flawed and does not take care of it citizens in the way any government should. Best to be in there, fighting for change, instead of outside complaining about how bad it is, after having giving up any hope of influencing decisions by walking away.

It doesn't now matter who leads the Tories. THEY got the UK into the current BREXIT shit, due to being a Jekyll and Hyde party. If they dump May, it will be weeks before there's a replacement. EU won't wait till the Tories sort themselves out. Perhaps by accident rather than design, May may have stumbled the UK to a clearer picture of the political and practical reality. She has had the best of British searching for the best manner in which to implement BREXIT - and come up with either NO DEAL or a deal that is much worse than that which we currently have, without the GBP, without the concessions we get from paying into certain budgets, etc... The people wanted BREXIT: this is the reality of BREXIT. It was never necessary for government to pay any heed to a stupid referendum, but rabid BREXIT Tories and weak Cameron caved in to it... May naturally leapt at the chance to be PM and gave BREXIT lip service... So she led (or was pushed ahead of her party) the UK to its current predicament - accept the shit deal offered OR reject it and leave in a huff, not paying debts and losing any Euro friends that there might be. I think Parliament may now START to do the job it should have been doing. When asked to accept the shit deal, it will say no - even Brexiteers and Remainers are agreed on how palpably shit the deal is... compared with what we already have. Since day 1, I always thought there'd be another referendum(and another until the right result was secured). I'm no longer so sure of that. I think Article 50 will be withdrawn - and we'll stay in.

Probably going off on a round the word cruise, since he's just discovered THIS is an island...

Are the Bookies offering anything on May deciding to get rid of Article 50 - and just stick with the deal we already have, yet? If she did do that, I reckon she'd stay on as PM.

Aye.