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Unfortunately in the case of that particular poster his overwhelming negativity about everything to do with the football club for the past couple of years means his opinion is now pretty much worthless even if there are some salient arguments buried in there somewhere. Hopefully the members will go along tonight in decent numbers and take in the presentation, ask some questions, and make their own minds up about the proposal. If you can't be there then I gather it will be made available online for members to digest prior to the vote. Whether the proposal passes or is defeated the journey towards fan ownership continues.

The club isn't being sold though is it? I think everyone, except you it seems, at least understands that very basic point. The proposal is that 27% of Gordon's shares are sold Kibble. SMiSA currently have a legal agreement to buy those shares. SMiSA members are being asked to vote on whether they want that sale to proceed. SMiSA will continue on their path towards fan ownership, at the end of 2021, when they will own the majority shareholding of 51% This is really pretty simple to understand. Try and think hard before you post and see if you can come up with a better lie.

Every football club in Germany operates on a 51% fan ownership model. Good enough for Bayern Munich, but not for St.Mirren eh! In the transition period SMiSA will have two board members. Once it has 51% ownership it will be free to appoint the majority of board members. It hardly matters in terms of number of bodies though. SMiSA has two just now and yet Gordon Scott, on his own, has enough shares to do whatever he likes. SMiSA will have the majority of the board seats once they have 51% but it hardly matters. See above post. With 51% SMiSA will have control over the club. LPM doesn't seem to be able to grasp this very simple concept, but hopefully most sensible posters understand that 51% is a controlling interest, and is more than Gordon Scott owns right now.

The majority shareholding, 51%, of the football club will be owned by SMiSA. You might not like that bit, but it's important. It's called fan ownership. SMiSA are proposing to save their members £300K, bring fan ownership in 5 years earlier than planned and the club gets to benefit from an organisation with over 500 employees, a turnover of £30m p/a and the infrastructure that goes with running an operation of that size. To completely ignore those positive points, just to suit your own pathetic agenda against Gordon and SMiSA does your argument no favours at all.

Kibble are a charity, a not-for profit organisation. Yes, they need money to exist, but they are not a commercial organisation. To suggest they are going to bleed St.Mirren dry is breathtaking levels of stupidity. You continually saying that Kibble are going to be running the club doesn't make it remotely true. SMiSA will be the majority shareholder. SMiSA will have control of the club. SMiSA haven't enabled a quarter of the club to be sold. SMiSA are asking their members to consider a proposal to allow Gordon Scott to sell 27% of his shares to Kibble rather than to SMiSA, WHO DO NOT NEED THOSE SHARES. Why you feel the need to twist every single thing into such a negative story is absolutely beyond me. Try reasoned constructive debate and maybe people might listen to you. Your opinion, whether it's valid or not, just gets lost in the sea of complete negativity that you provide to this forum. EVERYTHING is shite according to you. And I mean EVERYTHING.

Just as a point of reference though to the people saying that 51% does not constitute having full control of the club..... That's actually a tiny bit more than Gordon owns today (50.1%).

Yeah I'm just completely guessing as to how much they spend with us mate, and I'm also assuming that spend will go away when they are in the door. Just thought today that it would be worth asking the question. Even if it answered the "what's in it for Kibble" question over and above being able to place their people in various parts of the St.Mirren operation.

I don't think David Nicol is there as an "official SMiSA" rep at the moment. I might be wrong on that though.

Although I am very much in favour of the proposed deal I would like clarification n what Kibble currently spend with St.Mirren, and what will happen to that revenue in the event that the deal goes through. I have no idea what Kibble spend, but I know they make pretty regular use of some of the clubs facilities. If that revenue disappears because as part owner Kibble gets to utilise the infrastructure without charge then what effect will that have on us? Might not be any, might be a lot, but I'd be keen to know the answer to the question. I suspect that may be how Kibble may recoup their outlay over time?

SMiSA are increasing their number of board members to two if the Kibble deal goes through, and four once BTB is complete. David Nicol and David Riley will both be SMiSA reps on the board. Which to be fair both are at the moment and have been ever since David Riley came in.

Just repeating what it says on the SMiSA website!

It's not the same deal, it's better than the original deal. We spend £300K less, get control in half the time, and get to benefit from the experience and infrastructure of a 140 year old business that has a turnover of £30m a year! I can't see why anyone would be against it but each individual will need to weigh up the facts as presented to them. If you decide it's not for you that is entirely your right.

And btw, this is what everyone signed up to with BTB; All of that remains valid with the new proposal. Only difference being a quarter of the board will be representatives from Kibble. Two business people used to running a business 10 times the size of St.Mirren. SMiSA retain the majority shareholding and the majority in the boardroom. If 51% shareholding isn't enough then someone better tell every German club they are doing it wrong.

You joined Buy The Buds to help deliver fan ownership. This, it it passes, delivers fan ownership, and saves you a few hundred quid into the bargain. Make your mind up once you've heard the presentation from the people involved in getting the deal this far.

I was at the gym this afternoon. Have you been stalking me!

Not strictly true. The 1200 odd fans who committed to a monthly subscription to Buy The Buds for 10 years will only have to pay it for 5 years. SMiSA will continue with some sort of subscription but let's say that drops to £5 from the current £12 and £25 tiers; £12 a month members would save £7 a month over 60 months = £420 £25 a month members would save £20 a month over 60 months = £1200 Not insignificant amounts of money, whilst fan ownership is still delivered.

I can only speak for myself but I believe strongly in fan ownership, which is why I backed 10000Hours first, and then BTB. This proposal delivers fan ownership. SMiSA are literally asking their members if they want to proceed. If the members say no then it won’t proceed. That is exactly how it is supposed to work.

You said SMiSA currently has no power, yet they own over 25%. Apparently Kibble, with the same shareholding, are going to run riot and have the club on it's knees! Which is it?

My question about Kibble would be what about existing spend they make with the club. I believe they spend quite a lot hiring and using the facilities at the stadium at the moment. It would be good to put a figure on that level of revenue and then to understand how or if that would be affected if they were part owners.

The original and current BTB deal would have seen SMiSA eventually own 71% of the shares. A majority shareholding. The proposed new deal will see SMiSA owning 51% of the shares. A majority shareholding. 51% fan ownership is the model that the whole of German football is based on. Owning 71% or 51% makes little difference. SMiSA will have control over the football club. In the same way that Gordon currently has control. The major decisions that are listed as all parties having to agree on are all the sort of things that you’d absolutely expect all SMiSA members to be consulted on such as changing the name of the club, putting in AstroTurf, issuing new shares and taking out massive loans. Bringing fan ownership in 5 years early isn’t really the big selling point here IMO. Fan ownership will happen with or without Kibble and I don’t personally think it will actually take as long as 5 more years anyway. The crux of this IMO is for the members to decide whether Kibble bring something worthwhile to the party or not.

It says there that any "major decisions" can only happen if all three parties agreed. Those "major decisions" are defined in section 2.9 though; But you are right, that does need clarified because with the best will in the world partners will never all agree on all things at all times. As the majority shareholder I'd expect SMiSA to be the only one with the full power of veto. One to ask at the meeting I think!

I haven't read that bit. Kibble have a veto on any major decisions? Where did you read that mate?

Everyone is free to terminate their membership at any time as far as I am aware? I'd be very hopeful that the reverse is true. More St.Mirren supporters should be looking to join the trust now that they know fan ownership is now just 2 years away rather than 7. Assuming SMiSA membership drops from £12 a month to say £5 a month (just an example) from the end of 2021 instead of 2026 all those SMiSA members will save themselves £420. They will be furious!

The St.Mirren Independent Supporters Association will own the majority of the shareholding under this proposal. In short, the fans will own the club. Subscriptions have been ring fenced which is why we are able to commit to finishing the deal by the end of 2021 having already paid up £300K. The extra money loaned for the Astro park was approved by members, and is close to being repaid through the £2 sacrifice that members again approved.

It's not a merger. SMiSA will own 51% of the shareholding of the football club if this goes through. That is the same level of shareholding that every club in Germany operates on. SMiSA will appoint 75% of the directors of the football club board. Kibble will have 25%. The SMISA members are being asked to approve the proposal. If they don't, it doesn't happen.